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Japan and China: What’s the Best Way Forward?

So many different ways to punish Japan.

Chinese GLCM.

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WUolUKY.jpg


Chinese ALCM.

KYnKKUf.jpg


Chinese Tomahawk.

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DF-21D ASBM reached IOC in 2010.

China has carrier-killer missile, U.S. admiral says - Washington Times

HGV.

China confirms hypersonic missile carrier test| Reuters

BeiDou-2.

Chinese Beidou Satnav System Fully Operational | Defense content from Aviation Week

Put this all together and we got the entire first island chain covered. How does Japan win this?

Let's see;

One of what you posted isn't even an actual weapon... that would be a satellite constellation. One isn't operational and is undergoing testing. Who knows what the future holds. And the other's demise has been foretold many times before and US defense and tactics will reduce the risk of the DF-21D and other "carrier killers". ALCMs are a new threat, they've been in existence since the 50s. LACMs too. There are contingencies and tactics to limit their effectiveness. These threats are hyperbole, talked up, but ultimately no more threatening than any other weapon that has been seen before.
 
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Let's see;

One of what you posted isn't even an actual weapon... that would be a satellite constellation.

The satellite constellation is what provides the 'GPS' guidance that allows the other weapons to work. It's the most important piece of the puzzle.
 
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Economy, demographics and military balance forced Japan to admit that Diaoyu Islands are disputed. As long as pragmatists have the upper hand in Japan they will not do another reckless move like the 2012 Diaoyu Island nationalization.

This is the best China can hope for: Japan pursues its own interests not USA's interests. Eventually the two countries will agree to use their own currencies instead of supporting dollar hegemony.
 
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I don't think the war will break out, China and Japan are both pragmatism. the war will not bring any benefits.
In case of the war, moral high ground will be important, the both sides are in the game. so I think it will last long time until the issue is resolved whatever peacefully or by a war.

Actually, in my opinion, Japan is not a completed independent country partly controlled by the USA(no any offense), so USA is the key, the forward depends on how to negotiate with the USA. but you can see the containment to China from the USA, so i am not so optimistic.

nihonjin1051, what do you think about the USA as a Japanese nationalist, a conqueror, a friend/partner, or both.
 
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If we wanted to, we could give Japan several dozen Fukushima disasters.
...

Just face the facts. Japan can't win.:disagree:

I am Chinese as well, i admire your patriotic to be my honest, but
no war is so simple like this. you must consider more things like international relationship, logistics, traffic line, economic, and so force. the difficult is not starting a war but quitting from a war.
So don't light the war, it is a big project. being ready to fire back is one thing, peddling a war is another thing.
if you peddle the war anywhere, it will bring a impression of war hawk to the others.
 
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I don't think the war will break out, China and Japan are both pragmatism. the war will not bring any benefits.
In case of the war, moral high ground will be important, the both sides are in the game. so I think it will last long time until the issue is resolved whatever peacefully or by a war.

Actually, in my opinion, Japan is not a completed independent country partly controlled by the USA(no any offense), so USA is the key, the forward depends on how to negotiate with the USA. but you can see the containment to China from the USA, so i am not so optimistic.

nihonjin1051, what do you think about the USA as a Japanese nationalist, a conqueror, a friend/partner, or both.

The United States is in Japan because for one, both countries were at war from 1941-1945. It ended in the unconditional surrender of the Empire of Japan. In the 1950's, in response to the threat of Soviet Union, a Mutual Defense Treaty was drafted that addressed the parameters in which Japan and America may cooperate with each other in exigencies.

The evolution of this Alliance has been observed after the collapse of the USSR in '91. In spirit of geostrategic change, Japan and America work with each other still to address forces that may pose a threat to Japanese security; North Korea, China and Russia. Tho pragmatic policies have been forwarded, in effort to accede to positive engagement .

Japan's relationship with China and Russia is one of mutual development and not one that is static or splitting.

Despite minor disagreement on maritime row, China and Japan cooperate symbiotically with each other; economic development , environmental engagement , as well as through intergovernmental approach. This was seen in the 2008 East Sea Consesus and was seen again recently with decision to address maritime issues bilaterally. A step in the right direction.

In regards to Russia; complex but there are opportunities to build upon . Besides disagreement regarding the Kurils, trade between Russia and Japan is increasing with Russia being an energy importer to Japan. There are plans, talks to build an oil pipeline from Sakhalin to Northern Hokkaido. This year has also seen JMSDF ships participating with Russian Pacific Fleet ships in the Sea of Okhotsk.

Considering the polarization between the United States and Russia over differences over Ukraine, the stability of East Asia can be undermined if one applies that policy of alienation in this region.

Japan, as a nation that is an ally of the United States as well as a partner of both Russia and China has a role in stabilizing East Asia. By independently cooperating and engaging with Moscow and Beijing on areas that bring benefit to the region. The situation is complex , unique , but there are plenty of opportunities for regional rapprochement.
 
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I am Chinese as well, i admire your patriotic to be my honest, but
no war is so simple like this. you must consider more things like international relationship, logistics, traffic line, economic, and so force. the difficult is not starting a war but quitting from a war.
So don't light the war, it is a big project. being ready to fire back is one thing, peddling a war is another thing.
if you peddle the war anywhere, it will bring a impression of war hawk to the others.

The volume of trade between Japan and China stands at $320 billion per annum, and continues to grow. The trade between Japan and Russia is $30 billion per annum.

The trade between Japan and China is largest in the entire Asian Region. China has real estate venture in Japan as much as Japan has real estate ventures in China.

There are high level production chain cohesion between Japan and China, with wide cooperation between each other's scientific and research arms. Japanese tourists continue to visit China in droves and vice versa.

You see how both nations are already integrating, and this integration will only continue as China develops and prospers, which is an opportunity for us as well.

A conflict benefits no one. Least of all not China and Japan, who probably are closer to each other , culturally and genetically, than any other nation in the world (minus Korea).

No to war. Yes to peace, development and $$$$$!
 
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I agree partly,
from the economic aspect, we are integrated with each other.
but as we know the world is not so rational and not everything can be only weighed by money , so many events happened in the history were irrational or forced. besides, it is not a secret Chinese and Japanese don't like each other, the forward will get undetermined and if the nationalism get higher and higher on both sides.
Abe premier has angered most of Chinese(i don't like him either), i don't think he has a chance to meet with Xi president.
I have to say Japan government triggered the crisis and Abe worse it.
 
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The United States is in Japan because for one, both countries were at war from 1941-1945. It ended in the unconditional surrender of the Empire of Japan. In the 1950's, in response to the threat of Soviet Union, a Mutual Defense Treaty was drafted that addressed the parameters in which Japan and America may cooperate with each other in exigencies.

The evolution of this Alliance has been observed after the collapse of the USSR in '91. In spirit of geostrategic change, Japan and America work with each other still to address forces that may pose a threat to Japanese security; North Korea, China and Russia. Tho pragmatic policies have been forwarded, in effort to accede to positive engagement .

Japan's relationship with China and Russia is one of mutual development and not one that is static or splitting.

Despite minor disagreement on maritime row, China and Japan cooperate symbiotically with each other; economic development , environmental engagement , as well as through intergovernmental approach. This was seen in the 2008 East Sea Consesus and was seen again recently with decision to address maritime issues bilaterally. A step in the right direction.

In regards to Russia; complex but there are opportunities to build upon . Besides disagreement regarding the Kurils, trade between Russia and Japan is increasing with Russia being an energy importer to Japan. There are plans, talks to build an oil pipeline from Sakhalin to Northern Hokkaido. This year has also seen JMSDF ships participating with Russian Pacific Fleet ships in the Sea of Okhotsk.

Considering the polarization between the United States and Russia over differences over Ukraine, the stability of East Asia can be undermined if one applies that policy of alienation in this region.

Japan, as a nation that is an ally of the United States as well as a partner of both Russia and China has a role in stabilizing East Asia. By independently cooperating and engaging with Moscow and Beijing on areas that bring benefit to the region. The situation is complex , unique , but there are plenty of opportunities for regional rapprochement.
I know this history, Japan should appreciate to Kim il sung who started a stupid war and made the USA change its strategy to Japan
 
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If we wanted to, we could give Japan several dozen Fukushima disasters.

0cmybif.gif


Or we could target refineries, oil depots, and pipelines and shut down transportation throughout the entire country. Cars don't drive, ships don't sail, and planes don't fly without oil.

Oil refinery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oil terminal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just face the facts. Japan can't win.:disagree:

I know that sometimes Shinzo Abe is hard to reason. However a true superpower does not think that simple. China puts a lot of effort to be able to destroy Japan in a conflict. This is understandable. I mean every nation tries to prove it's hard power.

But, and there is a big but, China also should have something to say about how things can go good with Japan. This is extremely important. Only hard power makes a nation barbarian. Look at how US image around the world changed after it's ME campaign.

You should have two sayings, one would be what advantages do they have when they are friends of China, and the other one should be what disadvantages would they experience if they do conflict with China. Do not just focus on destroying a nation. This is much more complicated than that.

Japan, Korea, Vietnam. Those are nations that are culturally closest to China. You should be able to call them brother without any hesitations since you're culturally very close. And there is this thing, if you can't become allies with countries that are culturally closest to you, you can't form alliances with the countries that are culturally distant. Than you won't be able to form the global network that you need in order to become an actual global power.

Do you know the strength theory of nations? This is extremely important. Because I know you will blame Japan for the ongoing problems between China and Japan and you will have some true points. However if Nation A is stronger than Nation B, then Nation A would make Nation B to do something that Nation B wouldn't do on itself.

If Japan's current ruling elite doesn't want friendlier relations with China and you want to prove China is stronger, then there is a great challenge for China. Make Japan a friend of yours which Japan wouldn't do on it's own. Then you will be able to prove that China is strong.
 
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If we wanted to, we could give Japan several dozen Fukushima disasters.

0cmybif.gif


Or we could target refineries, oil depots, and pipelines and shut down transportation throughout the entire country. Cars don't drive, ships don't sail, and planes don't fly without oil.

Oil refinery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oil terminal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just face the facts. Japan can't win.:disagree:
Man, we don't have to fight a war with them. what we need to do is sit aside and see their economy collapse, that's all
 
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I do not like brain fever militant rhetoric,There is no room for compromise on issues of principle.It began in Japan,Japan will come to end differences,Japan's future depends on how the United States.I'm a realist,I do not think Japan will defy the U.S. so Maintain the status quo has been the best result.:-)
 
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But Japan intends to keep and bolster our alliance with the United States, indefinitely. The United States is a Pacific Power. Its interests will overlap East Asian interests.

What a joke.... Nobody want the US stay as fas as my part of Japan is concerned...

My bad I forget you are just a Pro-US Vietnamese, Nihonjin?
 
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I know that sometimes Shinzo Abe is hard to reason. However a true superpower does not think that simple. China puts a lot of effort to be able to destroy Japan in a conflict. This is understandable. I mean every nation tries to prove it's hard power.

But, and there is a big but, China also should have something to say about how things can go good with Japan. This is extremely important. Only hard power makes a nation barbarian. Look at how US image around the world changed after it's ME campaign.

You should have two sayings, one would be what advantages do they have when they are friends of China, and the other one should be what disadvantages would they experience if they do conflict with China. Do not just focus on destroying a nation. This is much more complicated than that.

Japan, Korea, Vietnam. Those are nations that are culturally closest to China. You should be able to call them brother without any hesitations since you're culturally very close. And there is this thing, if you can't become allies with countries that are culturally closest to you, you can't form alliances with the countries that are culturally distant. Than you won't be able to form the global network that you need in order to become an actual global power.

Do you know the strength theory of nations? This is extremely important. Because I know you will blame Japan for the ongoing problems between China and Japan and you will have some true points. However if Nation A is stronger than Nation B, then Nation A would make Nation B to do something that Nation B wouldn't do on itself.

If Japan's current ruling elite doesn't want friendlier relations with China and you want to prove China is stronger, then there is a great challenge for China. Make Japan a friend of yours which Japan wouldn't do on it's own. Then you will be able to prove that China is strong.
The issue is not about who is stronger, although i cannot agree with the Chinese brother you replied to, but i can understand his feeling.

The issue is about what the Japan is as a country or nation. from the history about thousand years, we learned that Japan as a country or nation was only kind to you when you were stronger or defeated it. Maybe you can have a Japanese friend, but Japan as a country be a good neighbor, never, especially when you were weak. although it is a good student when you were stronger.

Why our cultures are so closed, because Dynasty Tang in China was stronger and much advanced than Japan, so Japan sent Tang ambassador to China to learn culture, technology and all the advanced, especially when Tang defeated Japan in a war broke out in
663 AD in Korean Peninsula. the friendship between China and Japan was from 630 AD to 894 AD. To my honest, Japan was a good student.
In the history, the only time invasion to Japan from so called "China" was actually started by Yuan Dynasty which was ruled by Mongolian.
From Ming Dynasty, Japanese pirates were harassing coastal region for hundred years,
In Qing Dynasty, the sino-japanese war of 1894-1895 broke out, Japan conquered the TaiWan island
In World WAR II, Japan invaded China again and killed about 30million Chinese people.

besides, when the American opened the door of Japan with gun in 1854 AD, Japanese began to learn from the West. and when Japan become strong, then attacked Pearl Harbor in 1945 in World War II. when the USA defeated Japan again, Japan complied again and learned from the USA finally became ally of the USA.

By the way, Koreans will tell more about how many times Japan invaded them.

So history proved that, as a country or nation Japan cannot be believed if you are its neighbor especially you are weaker. what you can do is always stronger and be ready to defeat it. When you are stronger, Japan is a good student, when you are weak, Japan is a awful enemy.

Today, when Japan government is distorting history and beautifying aggression, who can guarantee the history will not be back? China need not prove its strong, Japan have to prove its harmless to its neighbors.
So make a Japanese true friend easier, make the Japan true friend impossible.
 
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