Jamaat man forced out of UK seminar

[kobiraaz]

Jamaat is never going to declare what it REALLY thinks about democracy, it is a means to an end. If Jamaat was honest and declared they would do away with democracy and democrats and the people voted for them, then ypu might have a case.
I dont like governance systems where ultimately the people who rule in our name cannot be got rid of via a peaceful use of a secret ballot because they answer to a supernatural deity.



If you study your history you would know that the Nazis had ministers in government for a long time as minority party in a coalition. It was part of the process to use democracy to attain their ultimate totalitarian goal. Their coalition partners were convinced by the Nazis that they would work in the democratic setup until they felt they had reached a certain critical mass after which they butchered all that stood in their way

My honest question is why are you mixing Jamat with Nazi party? Why not Ennahda of Tunisia??

 

[extra terrestrial]

Jamaat is never going to declare what it REALLY thinks about democracy, it is a means to an end. If Jamaat was honest and declared they would do away with democracy and democrats and the people voted for them, then ypu might have a case.
I dont like governance systems where ultimately the people who rule in our name cannot be got rid of via a peaceful use of a secret ballot because they answer to a supernatural deity.



If you study your history you would know that the Nazis had ministers in government for a long time as minority party in a coalition. It was part of the process to use democracy to attain their ultimate totalitarian goal. Their coalition partners were convinced by the Nazis that they would work in the democratic setup until they felt they had reached a certain critical mass after which they butchered all that stood in their way

Well, you're mixing up Caliphate system with Islamic republicanism. We also have Islamic political parties which promote the idea of caliphate state but Jamaat-e-Islami believes in Islamic republicanism which is often referred to as Moududism by some... They too had their share of backlash from those hardcore Islamists for promoting democracy...

If you're talking about going the totalitarian way... that's possible with any political party, not just Jamaat-e-Islami...

 

[Zabaniyah]

When A group of Islamists with significant follower base wants to be democratic and wants to take part in democratic process, You force them away from mainstream politics because that suits your agenda. But what if these elements turn radical as they were not given democratic rights. Who needs an enemy when you have leaders like these people?? And people on talk shows wonder what went wrong for Bangladesh.

Did they turn radical now? I was afraid that they would. It would have even made sense.

But here's the problem: The perpetrators of the Gulshan siege came from educated families who went to the country's apex international schools and even studied abroad. They were not affiliated with any Islamist party. One of whom was the son of a prominent AL leader.

I would say that the same applies to the murders of the past, starting with Rajib.

What is weird that the leaders of Hefazat-e-Islam (the ones who bore the brunt of the deadly riots of 2013) signed a fatwa petition against terrorism.

The question is: does that bring us closer to understanding the problem?

 

[extra terrestrial]

Did they turn radical now? I was afraid that they would. It would have even made sense.

What I have heard is that there are two elements inside Jamaat-e-Islami: the radical ones and the moderate ones. There are reports that some members of Shibir (the radicals) may have joined JMB and other militant groups. While there are rumors that the moderates are planning to form a new political party which will be centre right in their ideology, something in line with AKP of Turkey...

What is weird that the leaders of Hefazat-e-Islam (the ones who bore the brunt of the deadly riots of 2013) signed a fatwa petition against terrorism.

Did they? May be some sort of internal rivalry...

 

[Michael Corleone]

Praise the lord the cops hadn't shot him because he isn't in America.

 

[Zabaniyah]

What I have heard is that there are two elements inside Jamaat-e-Islami: the radical ones and the moderate ones. There are reports that some members of Shibir (the radicals) may have joined JMB and other militant groups. While there are rumors that the moderates are planning to form a new political party which will be centre right in their ideology, something in line with AKP of Turkey...

I didn't say that Jamaat-e-Islami are an exception.

It'd be delusional to assume that any party can be formed under the current circumstances.

My point being is that there are not to be any exceptions. No one could have detected that boys like Nibras can commit such atrocities. They didn't lead religious lives nor were they politically active.

It is not only the persons or organizations that are to be of concern, but only in part. It is the idea and the way it can complement with people's intolerance. And intolerance is a very real and a profound problem in Bangladesh. The genius in the UK seminar had shown just that. And chances are, those Western folks will get the wrong idea.

Did they? May be some sort of internal rivalry...

Well, their support against such an idea would be important wouldn't it be? We are not a Western country. No matter if we are secular or not, we have Muslim values. And by values, it is those intrinsic judgements that we make in our day-to-day activities and life's decisions. That being said, we are a largely homogeneous society.

Just now, an English-medium school that my friend teaches at had been threatened. Their protection is very limited. Could you imagine a bunch of dead school-going kids? In Bangladesh?

If there are to be any inclusiveness in the support against the idea in such a limited security and murky environment , now is the time to do it. Otherwise, these things will continue.