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It’s time the US started listening to Turkey

nangyale

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It’s time the US started listening to Turkey
By David P. Goldman, Columnist December 2, 2016

With Turkey’s help, Russia is conducting direct negotiations with Syrian rebels, the Financial Times reported on Thursday. The FT wrote that one opposition figure, when asked why he thought Russia would seek a deal with the rebels just as Assad appeared to be winning, said Moscow was “essentially saying: ‘Screw you, Americans.'”

Turkey in effect is saying the same thing to Washington. The London-based newspaper explains:

Four opposition members from rebel-held northern Syria told the Financial Times that Turkey has been brokering talks in Ankara with Moscow, whose military intervention on the side of President Bashar al-Assad has helped turn the five-year civil war in the regime’s favor. Russia is now backing regime efforts to recapture the rebels’ last urban stronghold in Syria’s second city of Aleppo.

“The Russians and Turks are talking without the US now. It [Washington] is completely shut out of these talks, and doesn’t even know what’s going on in Ankara,” said one opposition figure, who asked not to be identified.

This puts into context the kerfuffle over General Michael Flynn’s Election Day recommendation that the United States pay more attention to Turkey’s point of view, especially in relation to a home-grown Islamist movement with terrorist overtones. Flynn, the designated National Security Adviser for the Trump administration, was formerly head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and the first senior intelligence official to warn of the emergence of ISIS at a time when President Obama dismissed the Islamist movement as “junior varsity.”

In particular, the general cited the Turkish government’s consternation at America’s refusal to extradite the exiled Islamist leader Fetullah Gülen, who fled a Turkish charge of subversion and has been living in Pennsylvania since 1999. Last July 15 a group of Turkish officers apparently loyal to Gülen attempted to overthrow the government of President Tayyip Recep Erdogan. As early as 2008 Michael Rubin, a Middle East expert now at the American Enterprise Institute, warned that Gülen would use millions of followers and billions of dollars in business assets to launch an Islamist coup. That is what Gülen apparently did last July, and Flynn argued that the United States should back Turkey’s elected leader against the coup plotters.

That seemingly uncontroversial suggestion triggered a sewage storm.
Curiously, Michael Rubin came out as one of the fundamentalist leader’s strongest supporters against the Erdogan government, alongside Commentary Magazine’s Noah Rothman. Both attacked Flynn for supporting the Erdogan government against the Gülenist attempted putsch. Rothman added that Flynn was a “dubious choice” for National Security Adviser because his consulting company had had a Turkish corporate client, suggesting that Flynn’s views on Turkey raised a “conflict of interest.”

Commentary Magazine, formerly a conservative voice in public affairs, backed Hillary Clinton’s candidacy against Donald Trump, and the allegation that Flynn’s views were shaped by a single consulting client might be dismissed as ordinary political slander.

There is a darker side to the story. Gülen has prominent American supporters in politics as well as the intelligence community. Some of this appears to have been purchased by the usual means. Gülen’s followers have cultivated close relationships to the Clinton Foundation. Gülen operative Recep Özkan, the former head of the Turkish Cultural Center in New York City, is listed as a Clinton Foundation donor of between US$500,000 and US$1 million in 2015. Özkan was a finance co-chair for Ready For Hillary, which later became ReadyPac, a Clinton-allied political action committee. As Flynn observed in his November 8 op-ed, Bill Clinton called the Turkish fundamentalist leader “my friend” in a video broadly circulated by the Gülen organization.

More interesting is the Gülen lobby in the US intelligence community. Among former US intelligence officials, former CIA station chief in Afghanistan Graham Fuller is Gülen’s most enthusiastic defender. Fuller claims that the Turkish leader is just the sort of moderate Islamist voice that the United States should cultivate. Fuller was the CIA’s point man for the Middle East and South Asia from 1982 to 1986, when the CIA armed Afghan Islamists against the Soviet occupiers of Afghanistan. In 1986 he became Vice-Chairman of the CIA’s National Intelligence Council.


Using radical Muslims to destabilize Russia is the fixed idea of Fuller’s career.
When Afghan jihadis brought down Soviet helicopters during the 1980s with covert help from the CIA, the tactic was effective against the Soviet Union, although it had the unfortunate side-effect of training Islamist terrorists like Osama bin Laden who later would attack the United States. Full disclosure: as a 1980s Cold Warrior I think Fuller and his colleagues did the right thing at the time.

But Fuller remains on a mission to undermine Russia. Indeed, it has become a family matter: after the Boston bombing, investigative reporter Daniel Hopsicker revealed that Fuller’s daughter, Samantha Ankara Fuller, was married in the 1990s to Ruslan Tsarni (born Tsarnaev), the uncle of the brothers who carried out the attack, Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

Evidently, Fuller supports Fetullah Gülen because the Turkish imam is a danger to Russia. Erdogan also is an Islamist, but a very different kind of Islamist: the Turkish president seeks the restoration of the glory (and perhaps some of the territory) of the Ottoman State, while Gülen is a missionary whose objective is to unite all the world’s Muslims, especially those of Turkish ethnicity, in a great supranational movement. Where Erdogan wants to aggrandize the Turkish state, Gülen hopes to undermine all authority but that of Islam among the hundred million ethnic Turkish Muslims of Central Asia. It is one thing to undermine Soviet aggression in Afghanistan, and another to contribute to internal instability in Russia long after the fall of the Soviet Union. America has reason to wish to contain Russian ambitions in a number of areas, but this kind of game risks a very dangerous confrontation.

Russia hates and fears Gülen. His organization built secondary schools in ethnic Turkish areas in Russia, as part of a long-term program to cultivate an Islamist elite caste. Russia initially welcomed the schools but expelled the Gülenists during the late 1990s. The former Soviet states of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan did so during the 2000s. Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus praised Russia’s crackdown in a November 14 interview with the Russian website Sputnik. Said Kurtlmus, “Russia is in a better position as it was able to see the danger of the organization from the very beginning and thwart its activities on the Russian territory. We will seek to improve our cooperation with the Russian side on fighting [the Gülen organization] in the future.”

Turkey thinks the United States was behind the July 15 coup, as the New York Times reported on August 2. Otherwise, the Turks ask, why would the US continue to shelter the principal coup plotter? It is unclear what the Obama administration was doing. I think it unlikely that the Obama White House actually promoted the coup. Under Susan Rice, the National Security Council has become something of a free-for-all. It is more likely that the Gülenists acted on their own, and that some voices in the US intelligence community expressed sympathy for them after the fact.

More can be explained by incompetence than conspiracy. But the suggestion of American backing for Gülen persuaded both Ankara and Moscow that the US was playing (or at least considering) a dangerous game of destabilization. The outpouring of opprobrium against Flynn after he blew the whistle on Gülen suggests that some part of the administration and the intelligence community was caught with its pants down after the July 16 coup, and used the gullible Rothman of Commentary Magazine to attack Flynn.


The final result of the Obama administration’s blundering may be the exit of Turkey from the Western alliance. Ankara is now threatening to become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the Russo-Chinese umbrella group that may become a counterweight to NATO. China last month expressed sympathy for a Turkish move to the East. Turkey meanwhile is negotiating to acquire Russia’s advanced S-400 air defense system, a slap in the face to NATO.


That is why Turkish-sponsored direct negotiations between Russia and the Syrian rebels is such an ominous development. It shows how much influence the United States has lost in the region. Flynn has proposed to undo the damage and restore American influence. The fact that his suggestions were controversial in the first place shows how much work is required to reconstruct American intelligence and diplomacy.
 
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So wait, according to Flynn ( here ), Gulen is further towards radical/
political Islam than Erdogan? That's an interesting distinguo!

Tay.
 
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Actually I think it's the USA who needs Turkey.

Since Turkey has plenty of other options, like the SCO. But America can't replace Turkey's importance and geostrategic location in the Middle East.
Turkey is definitely at the cusp of Europe and ASIA. But this neither the 19th century or the CPEC that turkey is important in context to the location. The only thing it serves is the NATO connection to the Arabic world (not Muslim). They are dependent on USA for the defense and security policy.
 
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Turkey is definitely at the cusp of Europe and ASIA. But this neither the 19th century or the CPEC that turkey is important in context to the location. The only thing it serves is the NATO connection to the Arabic world (not Muslim). They are dependent on USA for the defense and security policy.
Ofcourse location is a very important factor in geopolitics in what world are you living?

So wait, according to Flynn ( here ), Gulen is further towards radical/
political Islam than Erdogan? That's an interesting distinguo!

Tay.
He definately is, his goal to replace secularism with a religious doctrine is no secret, at least Erdogan has been defending secularism in some occasions, what Erdogan does is using religion to fool simple minded people but he is very well aware how important secularism is.
 
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Turkey is definitely at the cusp of Europe and ASIA. But this neither the 19th century or the CPEC that turkey is important in context to the location. The only thing it serves is the NATO connection to the Arabic world (not Muslim). They are dependent on USA for the defense and security policy.

Turkey serves as the bridge between the West and the East, their geostrategic position gives them a very significant level of importance for any of the major power blocs in the world.

If the USA lost Turkey that would be one of the biggest blows to their geopolitical influence, especially considering how invested they are in the conflicts in the Middle East.
 
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Turkey serves as the bridge between the West and the East, their geostrategic position gives them a very significant level of importance for any of the major power blocs in the world.

If the USA lost Turkey that would be one of the biggest blows to their geopolitical influence, especially considering how invested they are in the conflicts in the Middle East.

Almost everybody except the pinoys will agree to this. These pinoys try to belittle Turkey's significance whenever they say something about Turkey perhaps because Turkey supports Pakistan against india's hegemony in the subcontinent.
 
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Turkey serves as the bridge between the West and the East, their geostrategic position gives them a very significant level of importance for any of the major power blocs in the world.
Yes, Turkey has its geopolitical significance.

If the USA lost Turkey that would be one of the biggest blows to their geopolitical influence, especially considering how invested they are in the conflicts in the Middle East.
This is silly conjecture.

By abandoning NATO, Turkey risks loosing any leverage it has in Europe and USA and also access to there technologies and security umbrella. Turkey also has the PKK problem and Kurd are on good terms with the US on average (irrespective of what you may hear on the news). This is a huge problem for Turkey, and it doesn't calls the shots in existing geopolitical spectrums. And economic implications are on top of all that.

Even if Turkey decides to switch its allegiance (which seems unlikely anyways), American support base is still vast in the Middle East, comprising of Israel, Egypt, and GCC states. Israel, in-particular, is an ever-reliable ally of the US, and this a geopolitical thorn that Russia or even China cannot exploit, to their advantage no matter what.
 
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US, on the other hand, as an ever-reliable ally in Israel (the most powerful nation in the Middle East), Egypt and GCC states. US-Israel relations, in particular, is a geopolitical thorn that Russia or even China cannot exploit, to their advantage no matter what.

Israel alone is nowhere close to enough for the US to manage their multiple wars in the Middle East.
 
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Israel alone is nowhere close to enough for the US to manage their multiple wars in the Middle East.
My point is about US-Israel relations on the whole. Distance is not a problem for the US, by the way. US has global reach in its affairs. This is why US is the superpower.
 
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With Turkey’s help, Russia is conducting direct negotiations with Syrian rebels, the Financial Times reported on Thursday. The FT wrote that one opposition figure, when asked why he thought Russia would seek a deal with the rebels just as Assad appeared to be winning, said Moscow was “essentially saying: ‘Screw you, Americans.'”
Wait for it.....

The Three ways to negotiate with rebels outside of your country:

  1. Support them / use them
  2. Kill them
  3. Ignore them
There's always the blow back. :agree:
 
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Wait for it.....

The Three ways to negotiate with rebels outside of your country:

  1. Support them / use them
  2. Kill them
  3. Ignore them
There's always the blow back. :agree:
Indeed.

People jumping to conclusions too soon, based on a single opinionated article.

Point is that Russia has not been able to achieve a breakthrough in its campaign in Syria so far, and they want to negotiate now. :lol: Now, this is the situation when US is trying to defeat ISIS and also accommodating the interests of Turkey, Syria and Russia, in the same region. Imagine what would have happened if US had organized and funded a country-wide armed movement and showed the Middle Finger to other stakeholders. They would have forgotten Afghanistan.
 
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This is silly conjecture.

By abandoning NATO, Turkey risks loosing any leverage it has in Europe and USA and also access to there technologies and security umbrella. Turkey also has the PKK problem and Kurd are on good terms with the US on average (irrespective of what you may hear on the news). This is a huge problem for Turkey, and it doesn't calls the shots in existing geopolitical spectrums.
Which leverages would Turkey lose by abondoning nato and why?

Turkey won't leave nato just yet as there are ongoing projects where our defense industry got stakes in (e.g. F35). Furthermore, unfortunately Turkey doesn't have a long range indigenous anti-air system, hence the patriots were requested from other nato members. So there's this dependency for now. Then there are also nato-origin components that are used in our indigenous projects, especially pointing at those critical motors.

However, on the bright side, all of these dependencies can and will be overcome at some point when our defense industry will be able to develop such critical parts. In the beginning of 2014 the Turkish defense industry was able to address 65% of its own needs, 25% through TOT/co-development/etc. and 10% through off-the-shelf. Situation should be more favorable after almost 3 years. What i want to say is, as time goes on Turkey will be able to solve the above mentioned issues and nato/US will lose this product/technology leverage over us.

So, Turkey may lose some nato related leverages/bonuses, but it is nato/US that will lose more. No more nato radars on Turkish soil, no more another nato flank for Russia to worry about, no more Incirlik airbase, no more advantage of our geopolitical location, no more a loyal buyer of mostly nato systems etc. Imo, the only not simply overcomeable disadvantage for Turkey would be losing those nukes.

Nato has been more of a curse than a blessing. Remember, Turkey joined nato simply due to Soviet aggression back then. Had our country been strong and self-sufficient enough to play the neutral card, then right now we would not have been in nato. Thanks to US embargo during the 70's our state opened its eyes and started to make serious effort on an indigenous defense industry, otherwise our self-sufficiency would have been even lower now. Ironically, even though we are now part of the nato, US and some west European countries are openly supporting and housing the pkk/ypg (even openly providing them weapons in north Syria) dhkp-c and Gulenists against us, even though the former 2 are on their terror list, for decades. Greece acquired S300 from Russia without a problem, but when Turkey was interested in HQ9, all hell broke loose, and probably will again if Turkey is really interested in the S400. US and EU (nato) are plain hypocrite and evil, unless you play along with them or serve a purpose. With such 'allies' Turkey doesn't need enemies. For too long Nato has benefitted more from Turkey than vice versa.
 
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