It’s time for the United States to let Afghanistan go

[Vapnope]

So how do you see as the reality?

Post election stances change, yes he might try to threat Pakistan but to what extent is the question. Screwing Pakistan is not that easy as it seems. Screwing any country is not that easy as it seems. They only way he can screw Pakistan, and US as well, is to invade it. Is it going to happen under him? I highly doubt it.

 

[A-Team]

Post election stances change, yes he might try to threat Pakistan but to what extent is the question. Screwing Pakistan is not that easy as it seems. Screwing any country is not that easy as it seems. They only way he can screw Pakistan, and US as well, is to invade it. Is it going to happen under him? I highly doubt it.

Anything is possible for that clown

But you are right Pakistan has formidable security apparatus and coupled with nuclear weapons it does make it dangerous.

But you do know Soviet Union was not defeated on the battlefield but instead it was made to crumble.

If US interests were to be really challenged by Pakistan, then North Korea is a model that Pakistan should anticipate.

 

[sputnik]

Article here, excerpts below:

Recently a group of former U.S. officials and experts issued a proposalfor an "enduring partnership" with Afghanistan, calling the nation "a key front in a generational conflict against violent extremists across the greater Middle East." The group, which included Generals Stanley McChrystal and David Petraeus, both former commanders of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, argued that in addition to preventing Afghanistan from again becoming a sanctuary for terrorist organizations, a long-term American presence is critical to ensure stability in the region and as a base of operations to conduct operations against other adversaries in the war on terror.

It is understandable that officials whose professional careers are so closely connected with the current U.S. strategy would find it difficult to admit failure, but the truth is there is no good reason to stay in Afghanistan.

If turp got elected, he might let it go but if Goddess of War came to Power, Hardships increase many fold for people of this region for sure. If members here investing in Equity Mkts, be ready for carnage. Nov. 8 is the date.

 

[Vapnope]

Anything is possible for that clown

Again, that is a popular assumption not based on reality. They say barking dogs seldom bite. I hope you understand that.

 

[PATHAN786KING]

Welcome Taliban then in max 2 years after leaving US AFGHAN forces are not even able to take qanooz back with out US assistance or air support

 

[Shapur]

That is why as Afghans must get smart and play this game in a way that also has our interests covered, instead of being at the receiving end. Have you studied how Sweden played both sides in WW2?

Big countries have their interests, if you dont play the game properly you will end up at the receiving end as we did in Soviet times.

Remember our neighbours sadly are acting like vultures so you need some American presence and we need to align that based on our interests for foreseeable future. Karzai nearly fucked it up by being a naive pacifist. You need brute strength and then smart diplomacy to be able to make it in this God forsaken neighbourhood.

I do see where you are coming from but for me you don't seem to have enough trust in Afghan people themselves to turn things around themselves. Sure it might take longer without foreign help and there might be set backs but Afghan people will prevail as we always have. Abdur Rahman Khan tried to play both sides during the Great Game and ended up signing the Durand Line and Panjdeh treaty.

USA/NATO is bigger vulture than all our neighbours combined, you are inviting a big vulture to get rid of small vulture whom we can deal with ourselves. Who will get rid of the big vulture when their work is done and its time to pack up or are we forever going to be reliant on them? Can you ask them to leave when they are purposely limiting your capabilities of self reliance and prolonging the war just so they can stay for their own interests?

History has shown time and time again that USA/NATO can't be trusted, they supported both sides during Iran-Iraq war by arming both sides to keep the conflict going. Afghanistan needs to be very careful dealing with such a cunning and deceiving so called ally.

 

[pakistani342]

I do see where you are coming from but for me you don't seem to have enough trust in Afghan people themselves to turn things around themselves. Sure it might take longer without foreign help and there might be set backs but Afghan people will prevail as we always have. Abdur Rahman Khan tried to play both sides during the Great Game and ended up signing the Durand Line and Panjdeh treaty.

USA/NATO is bigger vulture than all our neighbours combined, you are inviting a big vulture to get rid of small vulture whom we can deal with ourselves. Who will get rid of the big vulture when their work is done and its time to pack up or are we forever going to be reliant on them? Can you ask them to leave when they are purposely limiting your capabilities of self reliance and prolonging the war just so they can stay for their own interests?

History has shown time and time again that USA/NATO can't be trusted, they supported both sides during Iran-Iraq war by arming both sides to keep the conflict going. Afghanistan needs to be very careful dealing with such a cunning and deceiving so called ally.

Sopen by a person who lives happily in the UK.

Yeah, the poor Afghan should get rid of vultures while you enjoy strolling through trafalgar square.

 

[nangyale]

I do see where you are coming from but for me you don't seem to have enough trust in Afghan people themselves to turn things around themselves. Sure it might take longer without foreign help and there might be set backs but Afghan people will prevail as we always have. Abdur Rahman Khan tried to play both sides during the Great Game and ended up signing the Durand Line and Panjdeh treaty.

USA/NATO is bigger vulture than all our neighbours combined, you are inviting a big vulture to get rid of small vulture whom we can deal with ourselves. Who will get rid of the big vulture when their work is done and its time to pack up or are we forever going to be reliant on them? Can you ask them to leave when they are purposely limiting your capabilities of self reliance and prolonging the war just so they can stay for their own interests?

History has shown time and time again that USA/NATO can't be trusted, they supported both sides during Iran-Iraq war by arming both sides to keep the conflict going. Afghanistan needs to be very careful dealing with such a cunning and deceiving so called ally.

The thing a lot of the current war profiteers sitting in Kabul forget is that, the US is not a Socialist country who just out of their own goodness goes around the world buildin things for others. The US is a capitalist country and they expect a return on anything that they invest in a country.
True sometimes investment go bad and they will leave like they did in Vietnam but anywhere where they succeed they remain............. forever.

 

[Shapur]

The thing a lot of the current war profiteers sitting in Kabul forget is that, the US is not a Socialist country who just out of their own goodness goes around the world buildin things for others. The US is a capitalist country and they expect a return on anything that they invest in a country.
True sometimes investment go bad and they will leave like they did in Vietnam but anywhere where they succeed they remain............. forever.

I think A_Team understands that US/NATO is not mother Theresa or Edhi but he thinks Afghans can play it smart and benifit from the fact that US/NATO interests are aligned with the Afghans ones.

I will be happy the day people in both Afghanistan and Pakistan are represented by sincere leaders who will not fill their own pockets at the expense of the masses.

 

[A-Team]

I do see where you are coming from but for me you don't seem to have enough trust in Afghan people themselves to turn things around themselves. Sure it might take longer without foreign help and there might be set backs but Afghan people will prevail as we always have. Abdur Rahman Khan tried to play both sides during the Great Game and ended up signing the Durand Line and Panjdeh treaty.

USA/NATO is bigger vulture than all our neighbours combined, you are inviting a big vulture to get rid of small vulture whom we can deal with ourselves. Who will get rid of the big vulture when their work is done and its time to pack up or are we forever going to be reliant on them? Can you ask them to leave when they are purposely limiting your capabilities of self reliance and prolonging the war just so they can stay for their own interests?

History has shown time and time again that USA/NATO can't be trusted, they supported both sides during Iran-Iraq war by arming both sides to keep the conflict going. Afghanistan needs to be very careful dealing with such a cunning and deceiving so called ally.

US has far bigger interests in the region than just Afghanistan, as landlocked and leased developed country we must have strong relationships with countries that carry significant international clout, now this relationship maybe one sided per se but its for us Afghans to be savvy and turn it in way that brings us so more value. Small countries have no other choice but play the cards well.

I think A_Team understands that US/NATO is not mother Theresa or Edhi but he thinks Afghans can play it smart and benifit from the fact that US/NATO interests are aligned with the Afghans ones.

I will be happy the day people in both Afghanistan and Pakistan are represented by sincere leaders who will not fill their own pockets at the expense of the masses.

Define sincere leaders? Can you find anyone better or competent than Ashraf Ghani, ask our friend @pakistani342 on where Ashraf Ghani stands.

This naive pacifism has cost us, it is all good to be pacifist once you are strong, once you have a strong deterrent. You can can't be pacifist from a position of weakness especially in our neighbourhood, but you can be from a position of strength. Pakistan right now would have been cut into shreds by India, had it not have nuclear deterrence.

Call US assistance whatever you want, but these Afghan commandos ( trained by the US and others ) are the last line defence between the Afghan state standing or chaos running the country. Yes the Afghan state is not picture perfect but it is all we got and we can do better if we are smart about it.

The thing a lot of the current war profiteers sitting in Kabul forget is that, the US is not a Socialist country who just out of their own goodness goes around the world buildin things for others. The US is a capitalist country and they expect a return on anything that they invest in a country.
True sometimes investment go bad and they will leave like they did in Vietnam but anywhere where they succeed they remain............. forever.

What do you call China, a beacon of socialism? Pakistan is bending backwards because it knows the importance of having strategic partners. Pakistan bent backwards when her and US interests converged.

 

[pakistani342]

Define sincere leaders? Can you find anyone better or competent than Ashraf Ghani, ask our friend @pakistani342 on where Ashraf Ghani stands.

Ghani is a good man -- but does it matter for Afghanistan?

It may be the wrong question to ask:

For example an Afghanistan strongly allied with Pakistan without any Indian space would simply not need a good leadership structure.

If you look at Malaysia, Indonesia -- did they have great leaders (including Mahatir)? I would say no: they just did hard work for 40 years and got past a critical point. For example Malaysia even let Singapore break away peacefully.

Having hostile relations with Pakistan is one thing that can probably sound the death keel of the Afghan state -- as is evidenced by history 3 times [Najibullah, Mujahadeen, Taliban to an extent: had they handed over OBL as the US demanded they probably would still have maintained some say in power]. And, it should be remembered the Najibollah run Afghan State has far deeper foundations than today's Afghanistan.

.

I think A_Team understands that US/NATO is not mother Theresa or Edhi but he thinks Afghans can play it smart and benifit from the fact that US/NATO interests are aligned with the Afghans ones.

I will be happy the day people in both Afghanistan and Pakistan are represented by sincere leaders who will not fill their own pockets at the expense of the masses.

If NATO didn't think it would have to be back in Afghanistan to clean up a bigger mess -- it would abandon Afghanistan tomorrow morning. Afghanistan is simply a bridge too far for NATO and the West and they know that.

 

[Khan_21]

US has far bigger interests in the region than just Afghanistan, as landlocked and leased developed country we must have strong relationships with countries that carry significant international clout, now this relationship maybe one sided per se but its for us Afghans to be savvy and turn it in way that brings us so more value. Small countries have no other choice but play the cards well.



Define sincere leaders? Can you find anyone better or competent than Ashraf Ghani, ask our friend @pakistani342 on where Ashraf Ghani stands.

This naive pacifism has cost us, it is all good to be pacifist once you are strong, once you have a strong deterrent. You can can't be pacifist from a position of weakness especially in our neighbourhood, but you can be from a position of strength. Pakistan right now would have been cut into shreds by India, had it not have nuclear deterrence.

Call US assistance whatever you want, but these Afghan commandos ( trained by the US and others ) are the last line defence between the Afghan state standing or chaos running the country. Yes the Afghan state is not picture perfect but it is all we got and we can do better if we are smart about it.



What do you call China, a beacon of socialism? Pakistan is bending backwards because it knows the importance of having strategic partners. Pakistan bent backwards when her and US interests converged.

Ashraf Ghani might be a sound intellect but he cannot run a country like Afghanistan. Ghani is more suited for countries like Finland , Norway or Sweden . Nawaz Sharif may not be an Oxford or Columbia graduate but currently he is what is best in our interest . He built the best expressway network in the region , Pressed the Nuke button when there was alot of world pressure on Pakistan in 98 , Brought back investors interest in Pakistan the political stability , Has the world interested in Pakistan and all this being half the intellect that Ghani is. Not everyone is suited for a particular country.

As for Afghans playing their cards well . I dont think Afghans are in the right direction . Afghan leadership and Public needs a major change vis-a-vis Pakistan . Being bitter to us will bring you no good . ISI is a master of manipulation and playing mind games . If Afghans keep this attitude up it will end up on the wrong side of history again .

China is giving out $50 billion in investments for a reason . When they were isolated during the 70's , Pakistan helped it form relations with US and western world . China came out of Isolation after that. They havent forgotten that We played our cards right when it mattered . Do you think they would be throwing out CPEC for us had we backstabbed them ? Afghans need to learn how to play their cards well . There are alot of decisions that you made previously that are coming back to haunt you .

 

[A-Team]

Ashraf Ghani might be a sound intellect but he cannot run a country like Afghanistan. Ghani is more suited for countries like Finland , Norway or Sweden . Nawaz Sharif may not be an Oxford or Columbia graduate but currently he is what is best in our interest . He built the best expressway network in the region , Pressed the Nuke button when there was alot of world pressure on Pakistan in 98 , Brought back investors interest in Pakistan the political stability , Has the world interested in Pakistan and all this being half the intellect that Ghani is. Not everyone is suited for a particular country.

As for Afghans playing their cards well . I dont think Afghans are in the right direction . Afghan leadership and Public needs a major change vis-a-vis Pakistan . Being bitter to us will bring you no good . ISI is a master of manipulation and playing mind games . If Afghans keep this attitude up it will end up on the wrong side of history again .

China is giving out $50 billion in investments for a reason . When they were isolated during the 70's , Pakistan helped it form relations with US and western world . China came out of Isolation after that. They havent forgotten that We played our cards right when it mattered . Do you think they would be throwing out CPEC for us had we backstabbed them ? Afghans need to learn how to play their cards well . There are alot of decisions that you made previously that are coming back to haunt you .

What discussions?

 

[Khan_21]

What discussions?

Discussion?

 

[A-Team]

Discussion?

"""There are alot of decisions that you made previously that are coming back to haunt you .""

My bad.

Ashraf Ghani might be a sound intellect but he cannot run a country like Afghanistan. Ghani is more suited for countries like Finland , Norway or Sweden . Nawaz Sharif may not be an Oxford or Columbia graduate but currently he is what is best in our interest . He built the best expressway network in the region , Pressed the Nuke button when there was alot of world pressure on Pakistan in 98 , Brought back investors interest in Pakistan the political stability , Has the world interested in Pakistan and all this being half the intellect that Ghani is. Not everyone is suited for a particular country.

As for Afghans playing their cards well . I dont think Afghans are in the right direction . Afghan leadership and Public needs a major change vis-a-vis Pakistan . Being bitter to us will bring you no good . ISI is a master of manipulation and playing mind games . If Afghans keep this attitude up it will end up on the wrong side of history again .

China is giving out $50 billion in investments for a reason . When they were isolated during the 70's , Pakistan helped it form relations with US and western world . China came out of Isolation after that. They havent forgotten that We played our cards right when it mattered . Do you think they would be throwing out CPEC for us had we backstabbed them ? Afghans need to learn how to play their cards well . There are alot of decisions that you made previously that are coming back to haunt you .

BTW curious, do you know what is the story behind the "Gul Khan" phenomena in Pakistan?