Italian marines case: Envoy can be sent to jail, says Harish Salve

[danger007]

The ex-counsel is breaching his professional code of ethics isnt he?
Is there any documentary evidence showing the Italian envoy has made the promise in SC? like an affidavit?
One crucial point of contention is contiguous waters vs international waters ( as I raised it in other thread of the same issue).

He submitted affidavit personally to the Apex.... That he guaranteed for the return of Marines....

 

[shuttler]

Well the trust between the two nations is already lost. At this point both sides are trying to save face. The Indian government can't back down because otherwise the opposition will butcher them for this in the coming election, and it is also a matter of big humiliation for the government.

that is what I am implying. either government has no way of backing down as the political price will be too heavy to pay. Congress will be destined to lose in the next election.

But as I said again it is the location of the "crime" site that may lead to an escape for both governments. Even if the case did happen in contiguous waters, the indian government holds no absolute jurisdiction in insisting the case be tried in an indian court.

He submitted affidavit personally to the Apex.... That he guaranteed for the return of Marines....

Even the Italian is held for contempt of SC he is protected by the immunity given that his act appears criminal

 

[danger007]

that is what I am implying. either government has no way of backing down as the political price will be too heavy to pay. Congress will be destined to lose in the next election.

But as I said again it is the location of the "crime" site that may lead to an escape for both governments. Even if the case did happen in contiguous waters, the indian government holds no absolute jurisdiction in insisting the case be tried in an indian court.



Even the Italian is held for contempt of SC he is protected by the immunity given that his act appears criminal

Well I doubt that.... Because Immunity is there with some limitation.... He submitted a document by him self as guaranty to the Apex... If it some other court he might get chance... But it is an Apex court, which means he is accepting the court terms.... I say no diplomat will do like this.... seriously Italy is a shame less country, which is using It's Envoy for cheating.... They are treating us Asiatic state.... will see what will happen... there are 50:50 chances to let him use his immunity or not...

 

[shuttler]

Well I doubt that.... Because Immunity is there with some limitation.... He submitted a document by him self as guaranty to the Apex... If it some other court he might get chance... But it is an Apex court, which means he is accepting the court terms.... I say no diplomat will do like this.... seriously Italy is a shame less country, which is using It's Envoy for cheating.... They are treating us Asiatic state.... will see what will happen... there are 50:50 chances to let him use his immunity or not...

the diplomat is answerable to Italy not to india. He is definitely protected.

He knew this before he signed the affidavit or whatever which is no more than a pc of toilet paper now

 

[Bang Galore]

the diplomat is answerable to Italy not to india. He is definitely protected.

He knew this before he signed the affidavit or whatever which is no more than a pc of toilet paper now

Not necessarily. It depends on how it is interpreted.

Article 32 of the Vienna Convention makes it clear that a diplomat ceases to be eligible for diplomatic immunity from criminal and civil jurisdiction of the host country after he initiates a proceeding in the court of law

Punishment is possible, however it is unlikely.

 

[Bang Galore]

SC pulls up Italian envoy, restrains him from leaving India till April 2

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Monday pulled up Italy's ambassador Daniele Mancini, saying we don't trust you any more.

The Supreme Court slammed the Italian ambassador for breaching undertaking and restrained him from leaving India till April 2, when it will hear the matter again.

"We did not expect the Italian ambassador to behave like this," the SC said.

The SC said a contempt of court charge would be made out only if the ambassador fails to bring back the marines by March 22.

Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini had personally negotiated the release on bail of the two marines last month, enabling them to return to Italy to vote in the country's general election.

After a year of disagreement over their fate between Rome and New Delhi, the Italian government announced last Monday that it would renege on its commitment to send the men back and they would remain at home.

A furious Indian government has warned of "consequences" and is reviewing its ties with Italy, while the Supreme Court ordered that Mancini should remain in the country and explain himself in court on Monday.

The restraining order appeared to run contrary to international rules guaranteeing diplomats freedom of movement, but India has insisted that Mancini willingly submitted himself to the jurisdiction of its top court.

Orders were issued to Indian airports last Friday asking them to prevent Mancini from leaving if he tried to board a plane without permission.

The envoy, who signed an affidavit personally guaranteeing the return of the marines, is not expected to appear in court personally on Monday and is likely to reply either in another written statement or via his lawyers.

The marines shot dead two fishermen off India's southwestern coast in February last year when a fishing boat sailed close to the Italian oil tanker they were guarding. They say they mistook the fishermen for pirates.

Italy insists the marines should be prosecuted in their home country because the shootings involved an Italian-flagged vessel in international waters, but India says the killings took place in waters under its jurisdiction.

Relations between the two countries have also been soured by corruption allegations surrounding a $748 million deal for the purchase of 12 Italian helicopters which the Indian government is now threatening to scrap.

SC pulls up Italian envoy, restrains him from leaving India till April 2 - The Times of India



Order restraining Italian envoy from leaving India to continue: SC


The Supreme Court has said an order restraining the Italian Ambassador from leaving India will continue till further orders.

The Italian Ambassador Daniele Mancini has told the Supreme Court he has complete immunity under the Vienna Convention.

The apex court has said all authorities would take appropriate steps on the order restraining the Italian envoy from leaving the country.

“We don’t accept and we don’t believe in the Ambassador’s statement. He has lost trust,” the Supreme Court has said.

"We had not expected the Italian Ambassador to renege like this," the apex court said.

The Supreme Court has fixed April 2 as the date for further hearing. It says the two marines still have time to come back by March 22. "Strictly speaking they have not violated our order," the Supreme Court said.

Attorney-General G. E. Vahanvati says the Ministry of External Affairs is fully mindful of its international obligations.

The Supreme Court said: "We are concerned over Mancini’s intentions, we want to know if he is going to comply with the order."

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...nue-till-further-orders-sc/article4521514.ece

 

[Guynextdoor2]

the diplomat is answerable to Italy not to india. He is definitely protected.

He knew this before he signed the affidavit or whatever which is no more than a pc of toilet paper now

The Indian SUpreme COurt knows better about this stuff than you. They know what they're doing.

 

[Bang Galore]

SC says Italian envoy has no immunity, restrains him from leaving

New Delhi: Coming down heavily on Italian Ambassador Daniel Mancini while hearing the case of Italian marines, the Chief Justice of India Altamas Kabir not only restrained him from leaving the country till further orders, he also added that a person who comes to the court and gives an undertaking has no immunity.

The Supreme Court also said that that it had lost all trust in the Italian ambassador while adjourning the matter till April 2.

However, technically Mancini is not under detention and he is free to go any where in India, but if he wants to leave the country he will have to take the Supreme Court's permission. ..................

SC says Italian envoy has no immunity, restrains him from leaving

 

[Srinivas]

Right move by SC, Italians got their message

SC says Italian envoy has no immunity, restrains him from leaving

New Delhi: Coming down heavily on Italian Ambassador Daniel Mancini while hearing the case of Italian marines, the Chief Justice of India Altamas Kabir not only restrained him from leaving the country till further orders, he also added that a person who comes to the court and gives an undertaking has no immunity.

The Supreme Court also said that that it had lost all trust in the Italian ambassador while adjourning the matter till April 2.

However, technically Mancini is not under detention and he is free to go any where in India, but if he wants to leave the country he will have to take the Supreme Court's permission. ..................

SC says Italian envoy has no immunity, restrains him from leaving

 

[anant_s]

Mancini and his political masters probably got their calculations wrong and thought they could fool Supreme Court. Seriously why is Italian government hell bent on damaging the relations with India on cost of two its erring citizens.

 

[KRAIT]

Best thing, Angry CJO said, "What do they think we are" ?

 

[Spring Onion]

[
The Italian Ambassador Daniele Mancini has told the Supreme Court he has complete immunity under the Vienna Convention.

The apex court has said all authorities would take appropriate steps on the order restraining the Italian envoy from leaving the country.

“We don’t accept and we don’t believe in the Ambassador’s statement. He has lost trust,” the Supreme Court has said.

So does he enjoy the right under Vienna Convention ?

Attorney-General G. E. Vahanvati says the Ministry of External Affairs is fully mindful of its international obligations.

Does he mean if the envoy enjoys immunity under Vienna convention then India would follow it ?

 

[Bang Galore]

So does he enjoy the right under Vienna Convention ?

Does he mean if the envoy enjoys immunity under Vienna convention then India would follow it ?

Depends on how article 32 is interpreted . The SC said that it will examine the Italian ambassador's claim but he is for a little heat regardless.

 

[Spring Onion]

Depends on how article 32 is interpreted . The SC said that it will examine the Italian ambassador's claim but he is for a little heat regardless.

what impact the heat is going to have and is it going to have some favoured result ?

 

[Sashan]

SC slipped up big time with this one. It should have examined what does the Ambassador's assurance mean when allowing the marines to travel to Italy. No point in assessing the situation now.