Italian marines case: Envoy can be sent to jail, says Harish Salve

[Guynextdoor2]

But he is 'Italy' and has been at all times.
He never acted as a private citizen, but always as 'Italy' when dealing with the court.

It means the SC should never have accepted the surety in the first place since it has no way to punish 'Italy'.

We all agree it was really sneaky of the Italians and the relationship, along with their reputation in the world, will suffer, but they may be on solid ground in terms of diplomatic immunity.

These are pointless speculations. there were two highly credible parties guaranteeing the marines- GOI and the Govt. of Italy - the SC was well within it's rights to take a lenient view. Especially considering the inordinate length of time that courts take in India and the emphasis the Italians had kept on it, on their word the SC was not necessarily wrong. You need to remember that Italy doesn't have a track record of reneging and GOI or SC have never had a situation before where they faced this.

 

[mastaan]

He can't be punished for violating that assurance, since that falls under diplomatic immunity. Governments have to uphold the Vienna convention.

But he also petitioned the supreme court and gave a solemn, signed affidavit to the supreme court - and he cannot claim diplomatic immunity on that one, because the supreme court of India does not concern itself with international treaties between governments.

Legally, Govt of Italy is not the plaintiff, Mancini is, on behalf of Govt of Italy. There is a very fine but genuine legal difference in both case. But, how do I know whether he is a representative or no. Well answer to that is that is what Harish Salve himself says (and he was the counsel for Italians)... And SC has the full powers to take over the freedom rights of any such guy who misleads the court... Geneva Convention does not apply to people who go out of their jurisdiction and become a part of Indian Legal system. Plus, luckily, it is not Govt. of India's ponies who have to decide, but the Supreme Court of India... and looking at the language used in the restraining from travelling order, I am sure, the judge has taken a deep offence at it... So, all the best Mr. Mancini

Yes, the Govt. of Italy is in contempt of court, but, on the question of diplomatic immunity, it was never waived.

Now the question becomes how the SC will hold the Govt. of Italy accountable for this contempt of court.

P.S. It may turn out that the SC was wrong to accept the surety in the first place, since it has no means to punish the Govt. of Italy. Mancini was just the messenger boy.

I don't think that it is just a case of state of Italy vs State of India... It is a case of state of italy, represented by mr. mancini vs the state of India... That makes him a plaintiff

 

[anonymus]

Legally, Govt of Italy is not the plaintiff, Mancini is, on behalf of Govt of Italy. There is a very fine but genuine legal difference in both case. But, how do I know whether he is a representative or no. Well answer to that is that is what Harish Salve himself says (and he was the counsel for Italians)... And SC has the full powers to take over the freedom rights of any such guy who misleads the court... Geneva Convention does not apply to people who go out of their jurisdiction and become a part of Indian Legal system. Plus, luckily, it is not Govt. of India's ponies who have to decide, but the Supreme Court of India... and looking at the language used in the restraining from travelling order, I am sure, the judge has taken a deep offence at it... So, all the best Mr. Mancini

1.Diplomats are protected under vienna convention.

2. Dipomatic immunity is absolute and could be voided only if
a) Country waived diplomatic immunity of it's diplomat
b) Diplomat is declared "Person non grata"

note: 1.A diplomat cannot extinguish his immunity by himself even if he wants to.
2.Even if the diplomat is declared "Person-non-Grata",he could only be expelled,not arrested.


3. SC feeling count for horseshit when dealing with international matters.

 

[asad71]

Perhaps they are taking out their anger over Sonia on this ambassador. Why doesn't India just deport Sonia?

 

[GR!FF!N]

India will bring back Italian marines: Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy | NDTV.com

 

[shuttler]

They're the chief justices of the Supreme Court.....you're just some guy in a forum

thank you for your praise. I am just a member of honourable PDF!

your SC judges suck big time!

The Italians, by hook or by crook, has outwitted your courts and government

 

[Solomon2]

Hey Solomon;
You do not even know the facts of this case and you are merrily spouting.

Um, yeah that's mostly correct. And I can't take the time to sift reports and learn them, either. I think it's sufficient to point out international law and the fact that nothing the Italian Ambassador said or did can thus be construed as subjecting himself or other Italians he represented to the court's jurisdiction.

 

[mehboobkz]

Helo Bribery Case, Shooting Fray India-Italy Ties | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Um, yeah that's mostly correct. And I can't take the time to sift reports and learn them, either. I think it's sufficient to point out international law and the fact that nothing the Italian Ambassador said or did can thus be construed as subjecting himself or other Italians he represented to the court's jurisdiction.

The day you become a LAWYER or a JUDGE; I will consider giving some credence to what you surmise or construe.
Till then.........................
Thats that. The facts still stand.