Israel planning to attack Gaza in coming year

[Gufi]

I think the larger anti-Israel point Hazzy is trying to establish is that in the absence of Israeli atrocities Israel must be planning atrocities hence Pakistanis should always hate Israelis regardless.

walls to enclose people is something I thought Jews would never allow. Shows how history teaches some people nothing. The reason the whole world questions Israel now is not because someone comes and shows us the light, but rather because of the clear violations of human beliefs. You understand when you kill innocent children and have people watching the bombings from vantage points it sends a clear message who is the aggressor. The statements by Israeli parliament members calling children snakes and little terrorists does not help. The fact that the person responsible for the mental health of the Israeli PM killed himself is no sign of sanity.
The aggressor with all the power is the one who is responsible for fixing things. Not the one you trap in a siege banning anything but the bare necessities in life.

 

[Falcon29]

I think the larger anti-Israel point Hazzy is trying to establish is that in the absence of Israeli atrocities Israel must be planning atrocities hence Pakistanis should always hate Israelis regardless.

Umm...no, my thread is supported with a recent escalation in shooting attacks along the border. The gravest of which being today. Also due to recent threats by Israeli officials. Such as Yaalon's threat of 'being forced to attack Gaza soon'. I predicted the previous assault two months before it occurred. I am familiar with Israeli policy and intent.

Context is everything. Hamas was launching rockets against Israeli civilians from civilian areas - two war crimes in one. If you only are willing to see the Israeli bombs rather than the Hamas bombardment you can't justly claim to be weighing judgement on the issue - and you can't claim to having a good grip on reality, either.

First of all, Hamas fired a small number of rockets per day. In retaliation, and most were fired in similar time intervals. They are not easy to detect and fired in salvos. That means it only took 6-12 launches per day. There were hundreds of Israeli airstrikes/Naval shelling/Artillery shelling attacks on a daily basis. There were constant periods of over 6 hours were no rocket is fired but Israeli air strikes are targeting civilian homes of families of those with military/civil servant members of Palestinian parties. As documented here:

Israel/Palestine: Unlawful Israeli Airstrikes Kill Civilians | Human Rights Watch

(Gaza) – Israeli air attacks in Gaza investigated by Human Rights Watch have been targeting apparent civilian structures and killing civilians in violation of the laws of war. Israel should end unlawful attacks that do not target military objectives and may be intended as collective punishment or broadly to destroy civilian property. Deliberate or reckless attacks violating the laws of war are war crimes, Human Rights Watch said.

Israeli attacks in Gaza since July 7, 2014, which Israeli officials said delivered more than 500 tons of explosives in missiles, aerial bombs, and artillery fire, killed at least 178 people and wounded 1,361 as of July 14, including 635 women and children, according to the United Nations. Preliminary UN reports identified 138 people, about 77 percent of those killed, as civilians, including 36 children, and found that the attacks had destroyed 1,255 homes, displacing at least 7,500 people.

“Israel’s rhetoric is all about precision attacks but attacks with no military target and many civilian deaths can hardly be considered precise,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Recent documented cases in Gaza sadly fit Israel’s long record of unlawful airstrikes with high civilian casualties.”

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UN official also wasn't too profound of Israeli fallacies:

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Here are 4 minutes of Israeli indiscriminate disproportionate shelling intended purely to kill as many civilians as possible:

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As we can all see, Israel is responsible for its actions. Israel choose mass murder/atrocious actions and it committed them. Blaming Hamas won't get you anywhere.

 

[Gufi]

I do think it would be better if the Obama Administration asserted the actions and goals of Hamas are both criminal and reprehensible. Delegitimization holds better hope for Gazans than war and terror.

And you say that the Israeli actions were not terrorism. the Israeli parliamentary members saying the death of children was ok is not criminal. You are the one who has no argument other then Hamas launched rockets so we will bomb everything and then say Hamas is the criminal. When you lay siege to a nation they fight back and that is not unknown in history.

 

[Solomon2]

walls to enclose people is something I thought Jews would never allow. Shows how history teaches some people nothing.

History teaches good fences make good neighbors, Gufi.

The reason the whole world questions Israel now is not because someone comes and shows us the light, but rather because of the clear violations of human beliefs. You understand when you kill innocent children and have people watching the bombings from vantage points it sends a clear message who is the aggressor.

Civilians and their facilities lose their immunity in international law when employed as armor or for military purposes. Captions to pictures don't always tell the truth. You're being tricked, Gufi - and you're accepting this, I think.

The statements by Israeli parliament members calling children snakes and little terrorists does not help. The fact that the person responsible for the mental health of the Israeli PM killed himself is no sign of sanity.

You're out on a limb here.

The aggressor with all the power is the one who is responsible for fixing things.

The weaker party isn't always the aggressor - something you remember every time a child throwing a tantrum kicks you in the foot. So if you truly expect the Jews of Israel to fix everything why aren't you supporting an invasion of Gaza to remove Hamas from power?

Not the one you trap in a siege banning anything but the bare necessities in life.

Another reason to support removing Hamas, yes?

...First of all, Hamas fired a small number of rockets per day. In retaliation, and most were fired in similar time intervals. They are not easy to detect and fired in salvos. That means it only took 6-12 launches per day. There were hundreds of Israeli airstrikes/Naval shelling/Artillery shelling attacks on a daily basis.

So Hamas' intent was aggressive and Israel's intent defensive. The low civilian/combatant ratio and Israel's success demonstrate its actions were proportional.

HRW doesn't have a grip on international law and as Palestine's own U.N. rep has warned, Arabs don't have a leg to stand on in an international court.

As we can all see, Israel is responsible for its actions. Israel choose mass murder/atrocious actions and it committed them -

Except it's the other way 'round. Hamas attempting mass murder and atrocities through rockets and tunnel attacks upon civilians. Hamas responsible for both its acts and Gaza being subject to suppressive Israeli military action as a response. And, of course, men like yourself morally responsible for willingly giving mass murderers total support.

And you say that the Israeli actions were not terrorism.

Why believe what I say rather than investigate context and law and judge for yourself?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Seems like following recent symbolic events in Europe, Israel fears more follow lead in Europe and eventually globally. And if this happens at rate faster than we thought. It doesn't want these symbolic measures to turn into material ones. Therefore my assessment is this threat of launching massive assault on Gaza is an attempt to try gaining popular support for yet another attack in order to derail peace process. By claiming that its security is not guaranteed.

In following months we will see it try provoking Gaza into a conflict. Which will be no different than every time. An unjustified attack resulting in major damage, and many lives of Palestinian men, women and children. It may even go very far, farther than last time and commit atrocities on massive scale to provoke Palestinian population in West Bank into an uprising to derail peace process and cause more violence in its desperate attempt to prevent a Palestinian state.

What's important is that the world is well aware of this Plan A by Israel. Which we have seen in the past. And hopefully the world won't allow it to go far and even possibly prevent it. We don't want any more thousands of Palestinian civilians being killed because Israel refuses to follow international law and prefers subjugation/occupation over a two state solution. That would be a crime against humanity and Israeli leaders would need to be taken to ICC for intentional democide.

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Therefore, members on this forum need to be aware and mark my words. They shouldn't have a double standard or condemn the Palestinians for taking any measures to protect their lives(in form of deterrence). They would have no choice unless world ends Israeli military assaults and puts it under control. I unfortunately expect Israel to carry on this plan.

in that gad-forsaken corner of the world, the following is always true.


Israel planning to attack Gaza in coming year

AND

Hamas planning to attack israel in the coming month

 

[Falcon29]

So Hamas' intent was aggressive and Israel's intent defensive. The low civilian/combatant ratio and Israel's success demonstrate its actions were proportional.

No, Israel had no defensive intent by using hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives on a tiny strip of land.

How many bombs has Israel dropped on Gaza? | The Electronic Intifada

The estimated cost of the total ammunition used in Gaza fighting is estimated at about 1.3 billion shekels [$370 million]. According to the army’s figures, 39,000 tank shells, 34,000 artillery shells, and 4.8 million bullets were supplied during the fighting. Senior military figures estimate that land forces alone used at least 60 percent of the 5,000 tons of ammunition given to them, but the IDF [Israeli army] cannot yet evaluate it accurately.

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The most common artillery munition Israel employs is the 155 mm M107 high-explosive shell, according to a 2007 Human Rights Watch report titled “Indiscriminate Fire”:

M107 shells are extremely deadly weapons. The expected lethal radius for a 155 mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters. IDF [Israeli army] officials have said that the error radius for a 155 mm shell is usually 25 meters. Therefore, if shells are lobbed as close as 100 meters to populated areas, as allowed under an IDF policy … or even closer, as sometimes happened, it greatly increases the likelihood of civilian casualties.

When the shells explode they can spread about 2,000 fragments in all directions. Sometimes they fail to explode and “become potentially explosive duds,” according to Human Rights Watch.

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What civilian combatant ratio are you speaking of? All figures produced by Oxfam, UN, etc... indicate majority of deaths were civilians:

Israeli forces displayed ‘callous indifference’ in deadly attacks on family homes in Gaza | Amnesty International
World must suspend arms sales to protect civilians as Gaza violence escalates again | Oxfam International

 

[Levina]

@levina @ResurgentIran @haman10 @Desert Fox @Selous @DESERT FIGHTER

I want to put this news here instead of creating new thread so people can see that I predicted correctly that Israel is trying to provoke the Palestinians.

This was premeditated incursion with aerial attacks. The Palestinians put up defensive fire as land incursion began. Injuring one Israeli force member. And immediate air strikes followed martyring a palestinian resistance member.

Should we be surprised???
what can we expect when Ziad Abu carrying olive greens in hand was attacked and "killed" ??

 

[Falcon29]

-Israeli tank fire reported against residents in Eastern Gaza

 

[Falcon29]

Palestinian factions: We won't allow for the shedding of blood of our people in order for Israeli's to make gains for elections

 

[Falcon29]

Talk about planning an assault for elections....recent Iron Dome deployments near military bases and settlements. Even though Palestinian factions have stated that they won't respond to recent Israeli violation of cease fire terms and targeted attack on outpost.

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[Hasbara Buster]

They will attack as long as they exist. The question is what are the countries in the region going to do about it. Nothing.

 

[Falcon29]

They will attack as long as they exist. The question is what are the countries in the region going to do about it. Nothing.

Unfortunately this is true statement.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Unfortunately this is true statement.

Here is another truthful statement; only Assad and Iran have been doing something for all these years, and those are the two "regimes" that you Sunnis / Islamists in general - hate with a passion. Therefore you have only yourselves to blame. Assad is a much better leader than the leaders and Kings in the Gulf region, Jordan, Egypt and Erdogan combined.

 

[Falcon29]

Here is another truthful statement; only Assad and Iran have been doing something for all these years, and those are the two "regimes" that you Sunnis / Islamists in general - hate with a passion. Therefore you have only yourselves to blame. Assad is a much better leader than the leaders and Kings in the Gulf region, Jordan, Egypt and Erdogan combined.

Iran can't do much, and Assad regime is not what you think. They were in on Mugiyneh's assassination. Iran is becoming more nationalist and of course some of that makes sense due to regional developments but world is no longer as it was in late 80's/early 90's. I agree with you in that Arab regimes are very complicit in supporting US/Israeli policy in region but they don't side with current Islamists you see in Syria. I don't consider Arab regimes religious at all, they are opposite. So it makes no sense to refer to them as Islamists. But you need to look deeper. Now that West/Arab regimes managed to pitch Arabs into conflict they have gotten rid of many Islamists in process and significantly weakened them in Arab world. In same process weaken Iran/Assad. However now they tolerate Assad as he is useful for now. The Syrian opposition will fall. After this the attacks on Hezbollah will begin. Before the attacks on Hezbollah begin Hamas will fall. Muslim Brotherhood already fell and remaining factions will fall. Muslim Brotherhood was capable of so much if they knew how to deal with US/Israeli elements in Egyptian army. In next 3 years this will all happen.

Assad regime isn't good just because they allowed Hezbollah to have supply route. You are seeing this through sectarian lenses which doesn't hold truth. There are Sunni/Shia Islamists that have similar objectives. There are people on both sides that have very similiar political perspective. Then there is sell out side which only cares to remain in power without considering interests of majority in region. And nothing will change it besides revolution from the people.

I already had this discussion with you regarding who did in what in recent years. So let's not repeat it over again.