Israel holds secret talks with Arab states: Israel FM

[rmi5]

Costs are not (at the core) related to nuclear program. The nuclear program is an umbrella for a wider strategic issue between US-Iran.

BS. US normally does not give a damn about mullahs. Mullahs always try to boost about themselves, but the fact is that no one in the world gives a **** about mullahs or their barking. US administration has some redlines which nukes are one of them, and that's why US sanctioned mullahs in a big extent only when they tried to reach nukes, and did not give a damn about them or their barking in the 2-3 decades before that.

 

[ResurgentIran]

BS. US normally does not give a damn about mullahs. Mullahs always try to boost about themselves, but the fact is that no one in the world gives a **** about mullahs or their barking. US administration has some redlines which nukes are one of them, and that's why US sanctioned mullahs in a big extent only when they tried to reach nukes, and did not give a damn about them or their barking in the 2-3 decades before that.

Other sanctions were in place before Iran started their enrichment.
Iran ceased its enrichment under Khatami for two years. But it didnt give Iran any benefits, in terms of trade deals with Europe etc. Iran helped the US in certain areas like Afghanistan, with its influence in the Northern Alliance and intelligence sharing. It tremendously helped the US mission in Afghanistan.
But that didnt stop Bush from putting Iran in the category "axis of evil" a few weeks later.

My point is that this is all a strategic issue.
The nuclear program is not at the heart of all the other strategic issues (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine etc) between the US and Iran.
Nuclear program is a smokes screen or an umbrella.

 

[rmi5]

Other sanctions were in place before Iran started their enrichment.
Iran ceased its enrichment under Khatami for two years. But it didnt give Iran any benefits, in terms of trade deals with Europe etc. Iran helped the US in certain areas like Afghanistan, with its influence in the Norther Alliance. It tremendously helped the US, because their air-campaigns had limited effect without ground support.
But that didnt stop Bush from putting Iran in the category "axis of evil" a few weeks later.

My point is that this is all a strategic issue.
The nuclear program is not at the heart of all the other strategic issues (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine etc) between the US and Iran.
Nuclear program is a smokes screen or an umbrella.

Previous sanctions, before nuke issue, were bunch of jokes, except for some military related cases. We know it very well.
Anyway, again, there is no "strategic" issue. Mullahs know that they have nothing to defend themselves against US if US attacks them . That's why they have created and supported bunch of terrorists around US allies to put pressure on US and its allies in the case of a war against mullah regime. Although, those groups, like Hamas, give a middle finger to mullahs whenever they don't need mullahs.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Previous sanctions, before nuke issue, were bunch of jokes, except for some military related cases. We know it very well.
Anyway, again, there is no "strategic" issue. Mullahs know that they have nothing to defend themselves against US if US attacks them . That's why they have created and supported bunch of terrorists around US allies to put pressure on US and its allies in the case of a war against mullah regime. Although, those groups, like Hamas, give a middle finger to mullahs whenever they don't need mullahs.

They were not jokes, but at at the same time they werent very serious either. It just mainly prevented US companies from doing business in Iran. But Iran still had some trade with the EU etc.
But we dont know what the trajectory would have been, even if Iran had not pursued enrichment.
Like I said, they suspended enrichment for two years and the other side did not reciprocate with economic/trade deals.

There many strategic issues between Iran-US. Ranging from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine Iraq, like I said earlier.
I wasnt even talking about Iran military vs US. Not everything is about military and certain issues goes beyond military. Its about politics. Military strength is nothing if you cant achieve a political victory. US military action in Iraq and elsewhere have not produced the best results for them.
Obviously US can not be matched by anyone, not even China.

 

[Falcon29]

Previous sanctions, before nuke issue, were bunch of jokes, except for some military related cases. We know it very well.
Anyway, again, there is no "strategic" issue. Mullahs know that they have nothing to defend themselves against US if US attacks them . That's why they have created and supported bunch of terrorists around US allies to put pressure on US and its allies in the case of a war against mullah regime. Although, those groups, like Hamas, give a middle finger to mullahs whenever they don't need mullahs.

Do you realizing what you're saying? There indeed is a strategic issue and competition over strategic interests in the region. This is seen all over the Middle East, such as the natural gas all around Cyprus, Turkey, Israel and Lebanon.

Do not drag Hamas into this, you're very uneducated and misinformed on the topic of what occurred a couple years ago. Which is not surprising since your information comes from selective media. Iran has a right to support its allies just like other nations support their proxies against Iran. Not to mention afghani insurgents, Syria, etc....

There's nothing outrageous in that Iran supports it's allies due to Israeli threats. Israel also suggested supporting the PKK after Turkey sent a flotilla to bring attention to Israel's immoral siege of Gaza. Iran also sends financial aid and food to Gaza. Hezbollah hasn't don't anything wrong, they fought off an Israeli occupation and defended the interests of the Lebanese people in the Shebaa farms including their offshore gas. Hamas also has not done anything wrong, they're not a proxy group out to kill Jews as you guys try portraying them as.

Hamas is Palestinian movement which seeks to restore the rights of the Palestinian people. Israel declared war on Gaza in 2006 after Hamas won majority of seats and Israeli sealed Gaza off completely and blockaded Gaza which amounts to an act of war. Tens of thousands of employees lost their jobs and thousands of business closed down in the first months. That's a crime against humanity and amounts to collective punishment as Israeli organizations Bt'selem and Gisha have pointed out. That doesn't mean Hamas should have resorted to their right to use force at all situations, it just means Israel declared a state of war against Gaza and they're entitled to arm themselves due to that development. If we went over every specific incident from 2006 to present that would be too much information and would consume too much time so please take into account the context.

 

[rmi5]

They were not jokes, but at at the same time they werent very serious either. It just mainly prevented US companies from doing business in Iran. But Iran still had some trade with the EU etc.
But we dont know what the trajectory would have been, even if Iran had not pursued enrichment.
Like I said, they suspended enrichment for two years and the other side did not reciprocate with economic/trade deals.

There many strategic issues between Iran-US. Ranging from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine Iraq, like I said earlier.
I wasnt even talking about Iran military vs US. Not everything is about military and certain issues goes beyond military. Its about politics. Military strength is nothing if you cant achieve a political victory. US military action in Iraq and elsewhere have not produced the best results for them.
Obviously US can not be matched by anyone, not even China.

Trajectory was about removing more and more of sanctions. Anyway, I don't know what economic deals you are talking about. Europeans were working in Iran in full capacity. Anyway, Iranian economy has a limited capacity and interests for foreigners.
The fact is that mullahs have no real ally because of their own previous and current behaviors and that's why every country in the world is justified to attack them in the opinion of any country in the world. If they were not such savages, and did not do all those terrors, imprisoning, rapes, stoning, ... , and if they had some real allies in important world powers, they would not need to be afraid of get attacked by now.

 

[Falcon29]

Trajectory was about removing more and more of sanctions. Anyway, I don't know what economic deals you are talking about. Europeans were working in Iran in full capacity. Anyway, Iranian economy has a limited capacity and interests for foreigners.
The fact is that mullahs have no real ally because of their own previous and current behaviors and that's why every country in the world is justified to attack them in the opinion of any country in the world. If they were not such savages, and did not do all those terrors, imprisoning, rapes, stoning, ... , and if they had some real allies in important world powers, they would not need to be afraid of get attacked by now.

Could you be more specific? Frankly, I'm tired of these one-liners that people use to delegitimize a whole entity or nation.

Are you speaking of death penalties in Iran? Okay, we all disagree with that in a way and Iran under Rouhani should be moving in a better direction over time. That doesn't not give any nation a justification to attack Iran.

Those affairs are conducted through human rights organizations and international pressure, if that does then you'd be attacking much more than one nation.

So this discussion has turned into something else, yet, you haven't really convinced anybody that Iran wants nuclear weapons especially considering how unrealistic that would be anytime soon.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Trajectory was about removing more and more of sanctions. Anyway, I don't know what economic deals you are talking about. Europeans were working in Iran in full capacity. Anyway, Iranian economy has a limited capacity and interests for foreigners.

The fact is that mullahs have no real ally because of their own previous and current behaviors and that's why every country in the world is justified to attack them in the opinion of any country in the world. If they were not such savages, and did not do all those terrors, imprisoning, rapes, stoning, ... , and if they had some real allies in important world powers, they would not need to be afraid of get attacked by now.

I dont think sanctions were going to get removed (given all I have mentioned), unless Iran complied and cooperated in all the areas I mentioned.
But we have to agree to disagree there. There is no way to know anyway, at this point.

The second part of your post is interesting. Its a bit of an acknowledgement that there is a whole barray of other problems that has nothing to do with nuclear program, but about Iranian "behavior" in the region.
So I say again, nuclear program is an umbrella.

Could you be more specific? Frankly, I'm tired of these one-liners that people use to delegitimize a whole entity or nation.

Are you speaking of death penalties in Iran? Okay, we all disagree with that in a way and Iran under Rouhani should be moving in a better direction over time. That doesn't not give any nation a justification to attack Iran.

Those affairs are conducted through human rights organizations and international pressure, if that does then you'd be attacking much more than one nation.

So this discussion has turned into something else, yet, you haven't really convinced anybody that Iran wants nuclear weapons especially considering how unrealistic that would be anytime soon.

Beautifully said my bro.
You are 100 % right

 

[kouroshkourosh]

why should we get ourselves involved in arab, israel usa and palestine conflicts.
these are not our business.
israel like other countries have become a country and saudi can has relation with it.
we must take our country out of arab and israel conflicts.
if hamas does not incense isreal, israel will not attack them.
BTW these are not our business ,arabs should solve it together.

I dont think sanctions were going to get removed (given all I have mentioned), unless Iran complied and cooperated in all the areas I mentioned.
But we have to agree to disagree there. There is no way to know anyway, at this point.

The second part of your post is interesting. Its a bit of an acknowledgement that there is a whole barray of other problems that has nothing to do with nuclear program, but about Iranian "behavior" in the region.
So I say again, nuclear program is an umbrella.



Beautifully said my bro.
You are 100 % right

all of sanctions is beacause we annoy israel.as i said we must end it and leave israelis and palestinians alone and let them solve their problems together.

 

[Falcon29]

if hamas does not incense isreal, israel will not attack them.

I'm sure that's why the West Bank remains occupied and Palestinians there are attacked on a daily basis....

all of sanctions is beacause we annoy israel.

Shouldn't that encourage you even more?

I personally wouldn't want to live in a region where the Western worlds policy is based off of Israeli interests, therefore Israel dictates all our affairs since you're admitting everything depends on how the outcome turns out to be for Israel.

And your comment isn't entirely true.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Yeah I know, it's that stupid thing about decades ago where the US and Israel will arming Iran and Iraq to get them to significantly weaken each other. Those aren't relations, that is the CIA intention of getting them to destroy each other.

It was because of hostages in Lebanon, not because they wanted to do business with Iran or not because of their love for Iran.

 

[rmi5]

@Hazzy997 I already proved that they want nukes by mentioning the costs of the program.
@ResurgentIran why do you run around a loop?!!! The case is very simple. mullahs are savages by their nature. they support terrorist to have a tool against US. Still, US, and any other country in the world, does not care that much, but consider them as savages and worth less uncivilized who do not worth to be ally with. But, when they want to pass a redline, which is nukes, US has sanctioned them. Is it really that hard to understand?!!!

 

[ResurgentIran]

@Hazzy997 I already proved that they want nukes by mentioning the costs of the program.
@ResurgentIran why do you run around a loop?!!! The case is very simple. mullahs are savages by their nature. they support terrorist to have a tool against US. Still, US, and any other country in the world, does not care that much, but consider them as savages and worth less uncivilized who do not worth to be ally with. But, when they want to pass a redline, which is nukes, US has sanctioned them. Is it really that hard to understand?!!!

Actually I understand what you have been saying all along, but I simply disagree with it and think you are dead wrong. As you think I am wrong.
So let us agree to disagree.

 

[rmi5]

Actually I understand what you have been saying all along, but I simply disagree with it and think you are dead wrong. As you think I am wrong.
So let us agree to disagree.

Which part of it is wrong?

 

[ResurgentIran]

Which part of it is wrong?

We have already talked about it and I would have to repeat it again, leading to your perception of "going in loop". But Ill accomodate you.

The part about Iran seeking nuclear weapons and that the overall cost is the proof (according to you).
Whereas I am of different opinion and think these costs are on the account of a larger regional strategic issue between US-Iran.