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Israel Buys Upgraded Subs To Counter Iran Threat.

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Israel Buys Upgraded Subs To Counter Iran Threat
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Thu, 24 Aug 2006, 00:37



Jerusalem: In a bid to boost its military arsenal against a perceived threat from archfoe Iran, Israel has signed a contract with Germany to buy two submarines capable of carrying nuclear weapons, a newspaper report said Wednesday.

Under the contract signed in July, the two Dolphin-class submarines, called U212s, will be assembled in Germany and fitted with a propulsion system allowing them to remain underwater for far longer than submarines already in use by the Israel navy, the Jerusalem Post said.
The state-of-the-art submarines, manufactured by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG, will be bought by Israel for 1.27 billion dollars, a third of which will be financed by the German government, the English-language daily said.
The U212s are designed for a crew of 35, have a range of 4,500 kilometers (2,810 miles) and can launch cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads, the paper quoted the Jane's Defense Weekly as saying.
Israel's defense ministry said it was unable either to confirm or deny the report.
The navy already has three German submarines -- the most expensive weapon platforms in Israel's arsenal that are also thought to be able to carry nuclear weapons.
Israel has never acknowledged possessing a nuclear arsenal although it is widely believed to have one.
Germany donated the first two submarines after the 1991 Gulf War and split the cost of the third with the Jewish state.
The Jerusalem Post also said the navy was considering installing an underwater sonar system off the coast to detect foreign submarines.
In November 2004, Israel spotted a mystery submarine in its territorial waters, which a naval official said was a foreign vessel on a spying mission.
The report of the sub purchase came a day after a cabinet minister and former Mossad spy warned Israel should prepare for a ballistic missile attack by Iran, its arch enemy and one of chief supporters of Hezbollah, against whom Israel waged the month-long war in Lebanon.
"Iran has threatened to attack us with its ballistic missiles and we should prepare behind our lines and civilians for such an attack," said Pensioner Affairs Minister Rafi Eitan, who is a member of Israel's security cabinet.
A senior cleric in the Islamic republic -- facing a showdown with the West over its nuclear programme -- has warned that if Iran is attacked by the United States and Israel, it will retaliate with ballistic missiles aimed at Tel Aviv.
Israeli officials have accused Iran of orchestrating Hezbollah's cross-border raid on July 12 that sparked the Lebanon war in order to draw the world's attention from Tehran's nuclear program.
They now fear that Israel's failure to destroy the guerrilla Shiite militant group during the war -- widely celebrated across much of the Middle East as a resounding defeat for the Jewish state -- will further boost the confidence of Iran, whose leaders have called for Israel to be destroyed.
"The strategy of applying pressure to Israel and the West through their Lebanese satellite Hezbollah, as a counterweight to the threats against them, achieved great success over the past month from their perspective," wrote Maariv, the nation's second-largest daily.
"Therefore they have no reason to fold now," it said.
 
And how is Iran a Naval threat to the entity calling itself the state of israel?
 
And how is Iran a Naval threat to the entity calling itself the state of israel?

Iran doesn't have logistic support to send a sub to the Med. See, not even the Ead Sea!
Imho Israel has bigger ambitions, a blue water navy capable to serve in the Arabian Sea with logistic support of the US and perhaps India.
 
No, I think its basically a defensive measure, the Entity calling itself the State of israel (ECITSI) is fairly exposed on its Med coastline, all its main cities (sans Al Quds) are on (Haifa, Natanya) or near the coast Tel Aviv.

But the Iran card is being played to get political approval.
 
Neo,

What logistic support can the Israeli Navy give the Indian Navy?

It must be understood that Israel's opening into the Arabian Sea is very restricted and hence a surface fleet can always be contested and blockaded.

It is not so the case if the fleet towards the Arabian Sea is underwater and hence Israeli Navy towards the Arabian Sea will always be submarine centric.

The Mediterranean Sea will always be NATO's backwater. Therefore, Israel's concerns are less towards the Mediterranean.
 
This has been in the news since 2003. But why does Israel need 2 more Dolphins? none of the Arab states have anything resembling a navy. Iran has 2 or 3 old kilos which arent even operational half the time, so who are they intended for?
 
This is a terrible waste of resources given that Israel is struggling already with the burden the military is placing on the economy and the fact that its basic land forces have proven uncapable of destroying sub-state actors like Hezbollah. Would the hundreds of millions be better spent in attack helicopters, more MBT's and possible purchase of Stryker vehicles?

Secondly most of Iran's naval assets are in the Persian gulf not the Arabian sea and a submarine operating there all alone is not going to achieve much.

If Iran truely is a concern for Israel, it could purchase more F-15's or spend the resources on upgrading its Arrow defense.
 
This is a terrible waste of resources given that Israel is struggling already with the burden the military is placing on the economy and the fact that its basic land forces have proven uncapable of destroying sub-state actors like Hezbollah. Would the hundreds of millions be better spent in attack helicopters, more MBT's and possible purchase of Stryker vehicles?

Secondly most of Iran's naval assets are in the Persian gulf not the Arabian sea and a submarine operating there all alone is not going to achieve much.

If Iran truely is a concern for Israel, it could purchase more F-15's or spend the resources on upgrading its Arrow defense.


I believe they will use these AIP/FuelCell Dolphins as a stealthy Nuclear strike vessel against Iran and others. The 3 older Dolphins that Israel has are not equipped with AIP. With these newer subs...second strike capabilities are substantially increased as they can remain submerged in the Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea for 60+ days without recharging.
 
I believe they will use these AIP/FuelCell Dolphins as a stealthy Nuclear strike vessel against Iran and others. The 3 older Dolphins that Israel has are not equipped with AIP. With these newer subs...second strike capabilities are substantially increased as they can remain submerged in the Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea for 60+ days without recharging.

It would make perfect sense Raptor for Israel to possess robust second strike against Iran, IF IRAN had the ability to strike Israel with nuclear weapons which it doesnt. Even if Iran in two years made a bomb or two, that is nothing that could threaten Israel's nuclear force. Iran is at least 15 years away from making a nuclear capability able to threaten Israel's deterrent.
 
It would make perfect sense Raptor for Israel to possess robust second strike against Iran, IF IRAN had the ability to strike Israel with nuclear weapons which it doesnt. Even if Iran in two years made a bomb or two, that is nothing that could threaten Israel's nuclear force. Iran is at least 15 years away from making a nuclear capability able to threaten Israel's deterrent.


That is true...but youre forgeting Iran and Iraq were duking it out with Chemical Weapons in the 80s. Iran still has a massive supply of chemical warheads that it can fit onto a shahab3 and aim it at Tel Aviv or Haifa. As one Israeli leader once said "You do not Gas Jews".
 
That is true...but youre forgeting Iran and Iraq were duking it out with Chemical Weapons in the 80s. Iran still has a massive supply of chemical warheads that it can fit onto a shahab3 and aim it at Tel Aviv or Haifa. As one Israeli leader once said "You do not Gas Jews".


The extreme velocities that long range Ballistic missiles reach means that most of the chemical weapon payload is destroyed by heat. It wouldnt destroy Israel's second strike capability and would kill at most only ten thousand or so Israeli's.
 
The extreme velocities that long range Ballistic missiles reach means that most of the chemical weapon payload is destroyed by heat. It wouldnt destroy Israel's second strike capability and would kill at most only ten thousand or so Israeli's.


The Tip of the Missile is protected by a carbon fibre composite wich is also called the nose cone. That sheilds the warhead from extreme heat. All ballistic missiles have this for upper atmospheric re-entry.
 
Sir, I meant the other way around.

India will not give logistic support to Israel.

We have a huge Islamic population. They are tolerant to accept the govt policies if it is not too drastic.

Therefore, the Indian govt, be it any govt, is very wary of the Islamic vote.

Or else do you think Advani would say Jinnah was a whopper chap and totally a swell guy?!
 
Or else do you think Advani would say Jinnah was a whopper chap and totally a swell guy?!
I donno what to think of Advani...I kinda bought his statement at first. :what1:
 
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