ISlam is a Victim of Terrorism

[Mercenary_ali]

Since the reconquista of the Spain from Moor Muslims, Muslims have been subjected to immense persecution.

In Spain, Muslims were burnt and slaughtered if they refused to leave the land or if they did not renounce Islam. After the Great War, the Ottoman empire was dismantled, Muslims lost the Unity. Israel continued its oppression and no Arab Muslim Nation could stand to fight Israel for Free Palestine. In Yom Kipur war, Egypt did take sinai but did not bother to establish the Nation of Palestine.

The world does not see that Muslims have been slaughtered almost everywhere. In Afghanistan, 1979-1989 and currently, In Iraq the present day, In Palestine since 1948, In Kashmir since late 1940's, By the serbs in Bosnia, by the russians in Chechnya, In Somalia and Sodan Muslims starve to death.

Our Leaders have not yet able to stand for Islam. This So called war on terror is affecting very badly. The TTP in Pakistan are working on Foreign Agenda to destabilize our beloved nation.

When will we rise again, When will Some Tipu, Sallahuddin or Ghaznavi rise for Us, when??

 

[Durran3]

Islam will fix itself the day Wahabism gets out..

 

[wtf]

Since the reconquista of the Spain from Moor Muslims, Muslims have been subjected to immense persecution.

In Spain, Muslims were burnt and slaughtered if they refused to leave the land or if they did not renounce Islam. After the Great War, the Ottoman empire was dismantled, Muslims lost the Unity. Israel continued its oppression and no Arab Muslim Nation could stand to fight Israel for Free Palestine. In Yom Kipur war, Egypt did take sinai but did not bother to establish the Nation of Palestine.

The world does not see that Muslims have been slaughtered almost everywhere. In Afghanistan, 1979-1989 and currently, In Iraq the present day, In Palestine since 1948, In Kashmir since late 1940's, By the serbs in Bosnia, by the russians in Chechnya, In Somalia and Sodan Muslims starve to death.

Our Leaders have not yet able to stand for Islam. This So called war on terror is affecting very badly. The TTP in Pakistan are working on Foreign Agenda to destabilize our beloved nation.

When will we rise again, When will Some Tipu, Sallahuddin or Ghaznavi rise for Us, when??

F_rRTSBlCuI[/media] - Yes! Islam Is the Victim!!!

Old Spain persecuted not just Muslims, but pretty much everyone non-catholic. They fought the British (protestants), then came to India and wreaked hell. The Portuguese/Spanish sailors found Jews in India who had lived peacefully for hundreds of years and attacked them. Then they turned on the Syrian/Orthodox christians and killed many of them. They fought both Hindu and Muslim kings on the coast and were famous for their cruelty.

But current day Spain is nothing like that. Large section of population is atheistic and catholics are religiously openminded. They have immigration from Morocco and a huge influx of shopkeepers from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

My point of the story is that there is no point fighting past injustices. The christians of today were not the ones of the past.Current generation did no harm to anyone, they just happen to be born in Europe. If we keep the old hatreds, we'll never stop fighting.

 

[muse]

If Muslims have been persecuted since the reconquista, it has mostly been one set of Muslims persecuting another.

As for modern day Salaheddin or Ghaznavi or Tipu - we need neither, our enemies are not armies but the evil notion that knowledge is the enemy of religion whereas religion is a branch of knowledge, our enemy is apathy. lethagy and ultimately it is a narrow mindedness, a misunderstanding of the idea of tolerance which is itself rooted in the realization of the plurality of truth.

 

[Durran3]

If Muslims have been persecuted since the reconquista, it has mostly been one set of Muslims persecuting another.

As for modern day Salaheddin or Ghaznavi or Tipu - we need neither, our enemies are not armies but the evil notion that knowledge is the enemy of religion whereas religion is a branch of knowledge, our enemy is apathy. lethagy and ultimately it is a narrow mindedness, a misunderstanding of the idea of tolerance which is itself rooted in the realization of the plurality of truth.

Couldn't have said it better


"Do well and you will have no need for ancestors."~~ Voltaire.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The title of the thread may be correct, but the emphasis on the persecution of Muslims by non-Muslims is yet a typical ploy of the irhabi apologist. The lack of "success" of Muslim nations is not the result of modern-day persecution by anyone. Muslim societies have lost their own way.

 

[niaz]

Since the reconquista of the Spain from Moor Muslims, Muslims have been subjected to immense persecution.

In Spain, Muslims were burnt and slaughtered if they refused to leave the land or if they did not renounce Islam. After the Great War, the Ottoman empire was dismantled, Muslims lost the Unity. Israel continued its oppression and no Arab Muslim Nation could stand to fight Israel for Free Palestine. In Yom Kipur war, Egypt did take sinai but did not bother to establish the Nation of Palestine.

The world does not see that Muslims have been slaughtered almost everywhere. In Afghanistan, 1979-1989 and currently, In Iraq the present day, In Palestine since 1948, In Kashmir since late 1940's, By the serbs in Bosnia, by the russians in Chechnya, In Somalia and Sodan Muslims starve to death.

Our Leaders have not yet able to stand for Islam. This So called war on terror is affecting very badly. The TTP in Pakistan are working on Foreign Agenda to destabilize our beloved nation.

When will we rise again, When will Some Tipu, Sallahuddin or Ghaznavi rise for Us, when??

F_rRTSBlCuI[/media] - Yes! Islam Is the Victim!!!

I am not debating whether Muslims are being needlessly slaughtered or not. This is partially true. I bemoan the fact that educated Muslims are completely ignorant of Islamic history.

If Hon Member is referring to the fall of Granada, yes there was lot of bloodshed. Muslims were given no quarter and had the choice of either converting to Catholicism of leave Spain altogether.

Let us first define Reconquesta. The term refers to the fight for independence of Spanish Christians from Muslim (Arab/Berber) rule. This covers a period of roughly 800 years that is from early 8th century AD (victory of Tours in 732 to the end of 15th century (Jan 2, 1492 to be exact). This was a slow process in which Muslims rulers as well as Spain in general, enjoyed scores of years of peace and prosperity including the golden age of Umayyad Spain under Abdur Rehman III (912-961). By the 1300 AD Muslim rule had been confined to Andalusia in the southern corner of Spain. This kingdom also lasted 200 years.

The post however refers to slaughter of Muslims in general. For the record, largest landmass under Muslim rule was during the height of the Ottoman Empire. This was during the sixteenth century or 150 years after the fall of Granda.

In addition to all of North Africa including Sudan, Ottomans rule all of Balkan and Central Europe and reached within 60 miles of Vienna. It was not until 1683 when decline of the Ottomans began.

In the East we had Safavid Kingdom of Iran which Shah Abbas1 who had all of Iran, Azerbaijan and half of Afghanistan including Baluchistan under his sway. Further East, Uzbeks descendents of Shibani Khan ruled all of Central Asia including Kazakhstan. In the South we had Moghal rule under Akbar the great. Pray tell me, then why are we moaning about the murder of Muslims ever since reconquesta?

My riposte is primarily meant to dispel false notions from naïve Muslims brainwashed into believing that whole world is against them. Truth is far more complex. Muslims themselves are as much to blame for their sorry state as anyone else.

To quote actual historical example, Suljuks fought and took Jerusalem from Fatimid Egypt in 1073 but lost it again in 1098 just one year before Crusader army arrived. Great Malik Shah Seljuki died in 1092. The empire split in two and after the death of Tutush in 1095 (brother of Malik Shah) the sons divided Sultanate of Rum into even smaller independent kingdoms. This was the real reason why first Crusade succeeded in capturing large chunks of Palestine and establishing Crusader kingdoms lasting 300 years.

Europeans really took off after start of the Industrial revolution during the late 18th century and have not looked back since.

The Turks lost in WWI due to the blunder of siding with the Germans and because our Arab Muslim brothers sided with the English against the Turks. Turkish Khilafat was abolished by the Young Turks following the war of Independence.

IMO there is great need of introspection to determine as to why Muslims are down and out.

 

[Evil Flare]

Islam will fix itself the day Wahabism gets out..

Thats more than 70% of Sunni muslim Population

 

[apostate]

Thats more than 70% of Sunni muslim Population

Talibanis are also Sunni

In Iraq its the Sunnis killing Shias by suicide bombings.

 

[Durran3]

Thats more than 70% of Sunni muslim Population

Not really.. Wahabism started with the Saudi Leader Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab somewhere in the mid 18th century i believe, correct me if I am wrong. Islam was a very progressive religion until this douchebag came in and started influencing madrases, mosques, educational institutions with his brand of hardline ultra conservative teachings that has literally put a halt on social progression in the 21st century.

After oil was discovered in Saudia Arabia and their wealth grew at an alarming pace they pretty much exported their brand of Wahabism into the Muslim world, and majority of the Muslims being gullible pretty much fall for anything that comes out of Saudia Arabia. Those who attack Shia's are mostly hard line Wahabi Muslims though they are Sunni's doesn't mean all Sunni's follow Ibn Abdul Wahab's doctrines..

 

[muse]

Dutch anti-Islam lawmaker loses bid to stop hate speech trial
Updated at: 2115 PST, Wednesday, May 20, 2009

THE HAGUE: Far-right Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders lost a legal bid Wednesday to stop his pending trial for inciting hatred and discrimination against Muslims.

"The attorney general is of the opinion that there are no grounds" for a further appeal, the Dutch Supreme Court said in a statement.

Lawyers for Wilders had sought to overturn a ruling by the Amsterdam Court of Appeals in January that he should be prosecuted for a series of public anti- Muslim statements, particularly for comparing Islam to Nazism.

"I am being prosecuted for saying about Islam what millions of Dutch think. Freedom of expression is at risk of being offered at the altar of Islam."

The January appeals court judgment had followed numerous complaints from citizens over the Public Prosecution Service's initial refusal to press charges against Wilders.

Wilders is the maker of a 17-minute film, "Fitna," which has been called " offensively anti-Islamic" by U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.

The screening of the film in the Netherlands last year prompted protests in much of the Muslim world, including Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iran and Pakistan.

 

[niaz]

Not really.. Wahabism started with the Saudi Leader Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab somewhere in the mid 18th century i believe, correct me if I am wrong. Islam was a very progressive religion until this douchebag came in and started influencing madrases, mosques, educational institutions with his brand of hardline ultra conservative teachings that has literally put a halt on social progression in the 21st century.

After oil was discovered in Saudia Arabia and their wealth grew at an alarming pace they pretty much exported their brand of Wahabism into the Muslim world, and majority of the Muslims being gullible pretty much fall for anything that comes out of Saudia Arabia. Those who attack Shia's are mostly hard line Wahabi Muslims though they are Sunni's doesn't mean all Sunni's follow Ibn Abdul Wahab's doctrines..

Mohammad Abdul Wahab (1703-1792) was a Najdi. Najd has long been a strong hold of followers of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal. (780-855). Hanbally fiqah has however been super imposed with the views of Imam ibne Tammiyyah (1263- 1328) who propounded the Salafin philosophy. Wahabis were initially fighting to free Arabian Peninsula from the Ottoman Turks whom they considered apostate

Wahabism is therefore not a religion but a socio political system. Very similar to modern day Jamaat Islami where Hanafi fiqah has been mixed with political philosophy of Maulana Maudoodi. Many in Pakistan consider Ahle Hadith as Wahabi, this is not correct.

 

[apostate]

and majority of the Muslims being gullible pretty much fall for anything that comes out of Saudia Arabia.

Tell me why most Muslims are gullible ?

 

[Durran3]

@Niaz

I never said Wahabism is a religious way. Its an Ideology and an Ideology always leads to a political system

@Apostate

-Lack of Education
-Poverty
-Many Muslims still look up to Saudia Arabia since its the birth place of Islam

 

[apostate]

@Apostate

-Lack of Education
-Poverty
-Many Muslims still look up to Saudia Arabia since its the birth place of Islam

1st two problems are common with people of any religion or without one.

But you know what, Osam Bin Laden was not a poor, neither Anjem Choudhary, Abu Hamza, and others. They were, infact, well versed with education.

Third problem is partly true but still not a good enough reason.