Islam from the eyes of another

[Jaanbaz]

Oh another one of these threads.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think what turns off non-Muslims the most about Islam is the hypocritical nature of many Muslims and their bad behavior. Most people will judge a faith by the actions of its adherents.

If i saw Buddhists raping non-Buddhist girls and doing fraud and chor bazari and then they tell me "Buddhism is about peace & respect" i wouldn't believe them.

 

[TankMan]

@Screambowl there is no 'reaching the divine', not until you die at least. Muhammad (s.a.w) used no 'methods' - God chose him as a prophet. He did follow the Quran. Any documentary saying otherwise is completely mistaken and based on unreliable sources.

You are delusional if you think such questions will impress or even bother an actual scholar. Of course, it's a different matter if you ask some mullah on the street.

Threads like these are pointless because they'll always be derailed and any good done by them will be reversed in minutes.

 

[Screambowl]

@Screambowl there is no 'reaching the divine', not until you die at least. Muhammad (s.a.w) used no 'methods' - God chose him as a prophet. He did follow the Quran. Any documentary saying otherwise is completely mistaken and based on unreliable sources.

You are delusional if you think such questions will impress or even bother an actual scholar. Of course, it's a different matter if you ask some mullah on the street.

Threads like these are pointless because they'll always be derailed and any good done by them will be reversed in minutes.

He used to meditate in cave Hira. His body was shivering, after he came back to the present state of conciousness, after listening to the sound Iqra, iqra, iqra. That is because he came from second highest state of concious known as Prajna realizing the truth about self to sudden Vaisvanara state what we are in, as described in Vedas about such experiences. If you suddenly wake up from a normal sleep, you will also experience this phenomenon. If you call is God chose him, then it is one way of saying.

Threads like this are to be debated with complete calmness and there will be no trolling. Then it is productive.

 

[TankMan]

He used to meditate in cave Hira. His body was shivering, after he came back to the present state of conciousness, after listening to the sound Iqra, iqra, iqra.

He was conscious when he received the revelation - conscious enough to respond to Angel Jibrael and have a conversation.
The first Revelation that came to the Messenger of Allaah - islamqa.info
How the Revelation Came to Prophet Muhammad - Qur`anic Studies - Shari`ah - OnIslam.net
As per authentic reports from Sahih Hadith,

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 1
Hadith Number 3
Narrated: Aisha
The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot.read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely.

His love of seclusion and meditation was a result of him being chosen as a Prophet, not the other way around. His character and qualities were undoubtedly exceptional, but God chose him as a prophet- he did not prove himself to God or anything like what you're suggesting.

That is because he came from second highest state of concious known as Prajna realizing the truth about self to sudden Vaisvanara state what we are in, as described in Vedas about such experiences. If you suddenly wake up from a normal sleep, you will also experience this phenomenon.

Absolutely none of this is supported, hinted or suggested by any Islamic source. Thus, it is completely baseless. If you're talking about Islam, Islamic sources need to be taken into account, not the Vedas or Hindu theology.

Threads like this are to be debated with complete calmness and there will be no trolling. Then it is productive.

Sure, but they rarely are.

 

[Dubious]

Most people will judge a faith by the actions of its adherents.

Then judge by the actions of the best the prophet
Judge by the actions of the majority (not terrorist)
Judge by the good standards why judge by the bad?

 

[Butchcassidy]

I think what turns off non-Muslims the most about Islam is the hypocritical nature of many Muslims and their bad behavior. Most people will judge a faith by the actions of its adherents.

If i saw Buddhists raping non-Buddhist girls and doing fraud and chor bazari and then they tell me "Buddhism is about peace & respect" i wouldn't believe them.

aur bhai whats up. Did you see war of century? u will like it

 

[Desert Fox]

Then judge by the actions of the best the prophet
Judge by the actions of the majority (not terrorist)
Judge by the good standards why judge by the bad?

But Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) isn't here anymore. Therefore the responsibility lies on his followers to live by his example and portray Islam in the best image possible, something most Muslims haven't been doing at all.

aur bhai whats up. Did you see war of century? u will like it

Yeah, i've seen that one as well as Apocalypse, WW2 in color, and a couple of others as well.

 

[Screambowl]

He was conscious when he received the revelation - conscious enough to respond to Angel Jibrael and have a conversation.
The first Revelation that came to the Messenger of Allaah - islamqa.info
How the Revelation Came to Prophet Muhammad - Qur`anic Studies - Shari`ah - OnIslam.net
As per authentic reports from Sahih Hadith,


His love of seclusion and meditation was a result of him being chosen as a Prophet, not the other way around. His character and qualities were undoubtedly exceptional, but God chose him as a prophet- he did not prove himself to God or anything like what you're suggesting.


Absolutely none of this is supported, hinted or suggested by any Islamic source. Thus, it is completely baseless. If you're talking about Islam, Islamic sources need to be taken into account, not the Vedas or Hindu theology.

Sure, but they rarely are.

he was indeed concious and but what state of conciousness? The description of such state of conciousness is given in vedas, when one realize him self after having having experience of being united with god. he was enlightened and then became prophet not before that. a lot of people meditate but rarely one in 1000 years reach to that heights of self realisation.
Chosing to teach is part of what his nature wanted. You can call it Gods wish or what ever.

The hadees does not explain or may be he did not want people to know the secret of this realisation. Otherwise people would have misused it. The process of Meditation and the exact experience. Thats why I quozed veda, because there such experiences are mentioned, buddha also mentioned it.

 

[zaid butt]

very good thing keep it up

 

[TankMan]

he was indeed concious and but what state of conciousness? The description of such state of conciousness is given in vedas, when one realize him self after having having experience of being united with god. he was enlightened and then became prophet not before that. a lot of people meditate but rarely one in 1000 years reach to that heights of self realisation.
Chosing to teach is part of what his nature wanted. You can call it Gods wish or what ever.

The hadees does not explain or may be he did not want people to know the secret of this realisation. Otherwise people would have misused it. The process of Meditation and the exact experience. Thats why I quozed veda, because there such experiences are mentioned, buddha also mentioned it.

All that is your theory, from books Islam doesn't recognize as authentic mixed together by you to support your own preconceived ideas.
You can believe whatever you want to believe but those arguments aren't going to convince, impress or even annoy anyone, nevermind an actual scholar.

 

[Dubious]

But Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) isn't here anymore. Therefore the responsibility lies on his followers to live by his example and portray Islam in the best image possible, something most Muslims haven't been doing at all.

Actually 99% who arent supporting ISIS and leading a normal human life are! Its just that since 99% happen to look like the every day man and not going bonkers to attract attention, hence they are marginalized...

While news agencies are doing a very terrible job (experts say I will post the link at the end of this post) in showing only 1 side of the picture!

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

 

[TankMan]

Actually 99% who arent supporting ISIS and leading a normal human life are! Its just that since 99% happen to look like the every day man and not going bonkers to attract attention, hence they are marginalized...

While news agencies are doing a very terrible job (experts say I will post the link at the end of this post) in showing only 1 side of the picture!

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

I agree with what you're saying but we must admit that @Desert Fox has an important point. It's not just about ISIS or 1% or 99% - it's about some of the everyday Muslims that don't support ISIS but are still cheating, stealing, lying and committing every form of corruption possible - just look at the actions of some people in Pakistan.

If we don't start respecting ourselves and our religion by developing and improving, blaming the media or news agencies is pointless. Of course, I know you or me alone can't do anything about all that. But recognizing it is important because when we argue to defend Islam, we leave ourselves exposed to criticism and allegations of hypocrisy when many Muslims themselves - not just ISIS - go against Islam while talking about Islam (case in point: our political mullahs like Maulana Diesel and Tahir Ashrafi).

It's just

 

[Dubious]

it's about some of the everyday Muslims that don't support ISIS but are still cheating, stealing, lying and committing every form of corruption possible - just look at what goes on in Pakistan.

Oh those....

Pieces of shits exist in every society....

We see more in ours coz unfortunately such crap exists on the top sector...the prominent sector!

Plus I wouldnt use them as examples:they drink OPENLY (breaking rule of Quran) what other shit they do is their problem...But when you know they are not pure representatives when they cant even avoid the basics....How can we use such shit as a measuring stick?

I rather use the poor who goes to the construction company and earns his bread the halal way! How come no one uses EDHI as a measuring stick? He is rare but so is one who is supporting ISSI....The only reason they seem to pop out everywhere is because they make news and they love the attention and the sad part is it is given to them!

When people talk about Christians they dont pick up Hitler nor Mussolini nor Stalin each was also practicing their religion while at war...No one picks up Queen Victoria or the Templar knights and her famous greed for land.....Then why are our WORST picken up? Not even the bad ones but WORST?! Why are we judged based on the lowest shit available?

If we don't start respecting ourselves and our religion by developing and improving, blaming the media or news agencies is pointless.

Unfortunately most of us who are practicing arent in the lime light ....we are not famous because we are everyday men!

But recognizing it is important because when we argue to defend Islam, we leave ourselves exposed to criticism and allegations of hypocrisy when many Muslims themselves - not just ISIS - go against Islam while talking about Islam (case in point: our political mullahs like Maulana Diesel and Tahir Ashrafi).

It's just

This is why I give definitions of words and terms...A Muslim the word itself is a verb...If you arent practicing ISLAM you AUTOMATICALLY cant be a Muslim ....MUsafir one jo safar kerta hai...MUslim one who does ISLAM

 

[TankMan]

Oh those....

Pieces of shits exist in every society....

We see more in ours coz unfortunately such crap exists on the top sector...the prominent sector!

Plus I wouldnt use them as examples:they drink OPENLY (breaking rule of Quran) what other shit they do is their problem...But when you know they are not pure representatives when they cant even avoid the basics....How can we use such shit as a measuring stick?

I rather use the poor who goes to the construction company and earns his bread the halal way! How come no one uses EDHI as a measuring stick? He is rare but so is one who is supporting ISSI....The only reason they seem to pop out everywhere is because they make news and they love the attention and the sad part is it is given to them!

When people talk about Christians they dont pick up Hitler nor Mussolini nor Stalin each was also practicing their religion while at war...No one picks up Queen Victoria or the Templar knights and her famous greed for land.....Then why are our WORST picken up? Not even the bad ones but WORST?! Why are we judged based on the lowest shit available?


Unfortunately most of us who are practicing arent in the lime light ....we are not famous because we are everyday men!


This is why I give definitions of words and terms...A Muslim the word itself is a verb...If you arent practicing ISLAM you AUTOMATICALLY cant be a Muslim ....MUsafir one jo safar kerta hai...MUslim one who does ISLAM

I agree with most of what you have said, but please don't be emotional like that - when we get emotional, we become punching bags for Islamophobes.

Plus I wouldnt use them as examples:they drink OPENLY (breaking rule of Quran) what other shit they do is their problem...But when you know they are not pure representatives when they cant even avoid the basics....How can we use such shit as a measuring stick?

They drink openly but have the nerve to call other people Kafir and those mullahs actually have a following.
People who want to bad-mouth Islam will always use the worst of people as an example - there is no surprise about that. But because of all that, we are stuck on the defensive, trying to defend Islam.

When we say Islam is good they say ''then why are so many Muslims bad?''. When we tell them that those who are bad are going against Islam they'll say stuff like ''you're doing Takiya'' and ''no true Scotsman fallacy'' and whatnot. It's just a perpetual shitfest.

That's why my philosophy is to not go on the offense - just calmly defend Islam while working on improving my own knowledge and the conditions of Muslims. It's a very effective method, but most Muslims tend to get emotional instead. That's bad because like I said, we become punching bags when we're emotional.