Islam and science: The road to renewal

[Mosamania]

I am just asking for my own information not answering someone

I need like 30 pages to answer your question fully, it would be better if you use Google and try to find out for yourself. Save us both the headache.

 

[Zarvan]

I need like 30 pages to answer your question fully, it would be better if you use Google and try to find out for yourself. Save us both the headache.

Okay great job

 

[Rusty]

Then there is nothing me or you can do about it. We have to look for the one that is the 'least'

That's like saying "chose a poison that is "least" harmful" even though you know that in the end all you are doing is stalling the inevitable collapse.
If Zardari is re elected Pakistan will collapse in 5 years, If Nawaz is elected it will collapse in 7 years. So why not chose the quicker end? it will be less painful because we wont have to suffer the extra 2 years.
For me, I will chose to back the party that is clean, has a great leader who has proven that he is the best man for Pakistan.

 

[Edevelop]

If I told you that getting a brain tumor is better than a heart attack, would you want a brain tumor?

That is what you are telling us.
The fact is that ALL these parties are diseases of Pakistan. One dissease might be a little less painful than the other, but it is still a disease and we need to get rid of them.

Once Pakistani people take their medicine and elect new clean people, we can start on our road to be a great nation. But until we have Nawaz and Zardari running the show, we will only be an embarrassment of the world.

That's like saying "chose a poison that is "least" harmful" even though you know that in the end all you are doing is stalling the inevitable collapse.
If Zardari is re elected Pakistan will collapse in 5 years, If Nawaz is elected it will collapse in 7 years. So why not chose the quicker end? it will be less painful because we wont have to suffer the extra 2 years.
For me, I will chose to back the party that is clean, has a great leader who has proven that he is the best man for Pakistan.

While i have said that we have to look for the 'least' corrupt, i must also add that PML-N and PTI need to form an alliance. It is the only hope for Pakistan. I really am serious. Imran Khan should not back away. Many leaders like Sheikh Rashid and Munawar Hussain are trying to say the same. Good thing that this IRI survey came out just before the elections. It should be an eye opener.

 

[Rusty]

While i have said that we have to look for the 'least' corrupt, i must also add that PML-N and PTI need to form an alliance. It is the only hope for Pakistan. I really am serious. Imran Khan should not back away. Many leaders like Sheikh Rashid and Munawar Hussain are trying to say the same. Good thing that this IRI survey came out just before the elections. It should be an eye opener.

If PTI and PMLN make an alliance, what do you think will happen when PTI tries to change the country?
PTI will say "everyone must declare all their assets and any assets they don't' declare will be taken by the government"
What do you think Nawaz will do?
He will start sweating like a pedophile during recess and stop any actions that will allow this to happen.
So what is the point of that alliance.
Like I said, if you vote for Nawaz you are choosing brain tumor over heart attack.

 

[Edevelop]

If PTI and PMLN make an alliance, what do you think will happen when PTI tries to change the country?
PTI will say "everyone must declare all their assets and any assets they don't' declare will be taken by the government"
What do you think Nawaz will do?
He will start sweating like a pedophile during recess and stop any actions that will allow this to happen.
So what is the point of that alliance.
Like I said, if you vote for Nawaz you are choosing brain tumor over heart attack.

Obviously for our country's interest, PML-N have emerged as favourites so there must be a good darn reason apart from my say. Imran Khan needs to bring his credibility and how he can do that is by making alliances and or accepting the fact that there are some good people out there (apart from his party) who he can trust. P.S Qadri was the person who brought so called Tsnunami. If Imran wants to win the elections, he needs to do something that is different from that and what people really want. Declaring assets is not easy as it sounds. There are allegations against PTI's members. This 'vadera' party is not so sincere as you think it is.

 

[Rusty]

Obviously for our country's interest, PML-N have emerged as favourites so there must be a good darn reason apart from my say. Imran Khan needs to bring his credibility and how he can do that is by making alliances and or accepting the fact that there are some good people out there (apart from his party) who he can trust. P.S Qadri was the person who brought so called Tsnunami. If Imran wants to win the elections, he needs to do something that is different from that and what people really want. Declaring assets is not easy as it sounds. There are allegations against PTI's members. This 'vadera' party is not so sincere if you ask me.

Really?
Who are PMLN favorites of?
They barley have a presence in Sind, Balochistan, and KPW. In their own home ground of Punjab they are fighting neck and tooth to be even with a party that 1. not in power, and 2. not even campaigning right now. PMLN is spending tax payer money on their campaign, something that is grossly illegal in the civilized world and yet they are not even the clear front runners.
Sad really.
And please tell me, how is a party that is breaking all moral and ethical laws going to bring prosperity to Pakistan?
You know one time in Canada the conservative government put their logo besides the government of Canada stamp on a few cheques and they had to come to the streets and beg for mercy?
PMLN spend millions of taxpayer dollars on political gimmicks, put their faces on it and pretend that it is form them.
Disgusting.
Your location says Toronto, so that means that if PMLN wins and destroys Pakistan, you can run away to Canada, but what about the rest of the 180 million people? where will they go? does it even matter to you? It clearly doesn't matter to Nawaz.

 

[Rusty]

double post

 

[Edevelop]

Really?
Who are PMLN favorites of?
They barley have a presence in Sind, Balochistan, and KPW. In their own home ground of Punjab they are fighting neck and tooth to be even with a party that 1. not in power, and 2. not even campaigning right now. PMLN is spending tax payer money on their campaign, something that is grossly illegal in the civilized world and yet they are not even the clear front runners.
Sad really.
And please tell me, how is a party that is breaking all moral and ethical laws going to bring prosperity to Pakistan?
You know one time in Canada the conservative government put their logo besides the government of Canada stamp on a few cheques and they had to come to the streets and beg for mercy?
PMLN spend millions of taxpayer dollars on political gimmicks, put their faces on it and pretend that it is form them.
Disgusting.
Your location says Toronto, so that means that if PMLN wins and destroys Pakistan, you can run away to Canada, but what about the rest of the 180 million people? where will they go? does it even matter to you? It clearly doesn't matter to Nawaz.

Hey relax and stop getting personal. Why would i runaway to Canada or runaway to Pakistan ? You wanna know ? I live in Toronto and visited Pakistan once after 8 years !

PML-N's campaigning is there and its because the Sharifs are industrialists and they are rich. If you have proof of tax evasions and illegal money, prove it, Otherwise i could go on and ask where PTI was 2-3 years ago ? The Lahore - Karachi Jalsas cost money and so did Imran Khan's private jet use and so did members of PTI in Pakistan getting bulit-proof SUVs. Imran keeps saying he will break down those government and governor houses but one should ask him why he lives in a 20,000 sq ft home alone ? After all this is a legal question as it is a huge chunk of land, which could also be used to run a school. Anyone who is planning on leading a country should be questioned but must never be a hypocrite.

I don't need to say more. The IRI survey is there. If you feel jealous or frustrated, then i can't do anything to fix your mentality

 

[Rusty]

Hey relax and stop getting personal. Why would i runaway to Canada or runaway to Pakistan ? You wanna know ? I live in Toronto and visited Pakistan once after 8 years !

PML-N's campaigning is there and its because the Sharifs are industrialists and they are rich. If you have proof of tax evasions and illegal money, prove it, Otherwise i could go on and ask where PTI was 2-3 years ago ? The Lahore - Karachi Jalsas cost money and so did Imran Khan's private jet use and so did members of PTI in Pakistan getting bulit-proof SUVs. Imran keeps saying he will break down those government and governor houses but one should ask him why he lives in a 20,000 sq ft home alone ? After all this is a legal question as it is a huge chunk of land, which could also be used to run a school. Anyone who is planning on leading a country should be questioned but must never be a hypocrite.

I don't need to say more. The IRI survey is there. If you feel jealous or frustrated, then i can't do anything to fix your mentality

Nawaz paid 5000 rupees in tax return. Nuff said.
The rest is just you throwing sh!t at the wall and hoping something will stick.
No one has accused PTI of any mismanagement of money, except PMLN....who were quickly shown to be fools by PTI as they did immediate press conferences to prove their innocence.
Where is PMLN's press conferences to prove their innocence?

Once again, you are choosing a brain tumor over a heart attack.

And the reason PMLN is slightly ahead is simply because PTI is not even campaigning while PMLN is spending public money on laptops what what not. The real test will come when PTI actually starts to campaign.
And, in Canada if the conservative government gave students laptops with Steven Harpers picture on it, what do you think will happen? do you think the people will say "well, it is corruption to give us laptops from public money, but he gave me a laptop so I will vote for him" or do you think he would be jail?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

It's a fact that most of the Islamic Empires declined due to lavish lifestyles.

Do you disagree with this?


Btw, I am asking in general and not in regards to KSA.

Why science got declined in Islamic world? well political instability, mongol central Asian invasion on Baghdad, the rise of the religious intolerance and fundamentalism and lack of free thoughts and research facilities are some factors behind it

 

[Kompromat]

@cb4 I advise you, to quit derailing the thread.

 

[jandk]

Islam and science are like oil and water. Arabs and science is also like oil and water. Whatever science muslims came up with was mostly the contribution of persians and other non arabs.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Islam and science are like oil and water. Arabs and science is also like oil and water. Whatever science muslims came up with was mostly the contribution of persians and other non arabs.

You are not expert of Islam so stop trolling.

Islam is complementary to science and it ask Muslims to seek all sort of knowledge

There were also many notable Arabs scientists for example jabar ibn hayaan(chemist, physicians ) Al-Kindi ( mathematician/physician), al-Zawahiri (known as father of moder surgery)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_ibn_Hayyan
Al-Kindi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

 

[kalu_miah]

Why science got declined in Islamic world? well political instability, mongol central Asian invasion on Baghdad, the rise of the religious intolerance and fundamentalism and lack of free thoughts and research facilities are some factors behind it

Good answer. Try this two hypothesis:
1. Historical Continuity
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...orld-order-road-map-future-8.html#post2758071
2. Large Systems
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...orld-order-road-map-future-8.html#post2772275

Islamic civilization was and is a collection of converts from other older ancient civilizations and a mixture of them. It was never great on continuity, but it made up for deficiency in that department with size. Mongol invasion was a body blow and it never recovered fully. It regrouped in Ottoman, Safavid and Mughal, but those also fell apart, while South East Asia saw new expansion, during European colonial era.

Strengths of Islamic civilization:
- mixed genetics, heterosis
- size of Islamic community

Weaknesses:
- relative lack of continuity specially for the newer variants (salafism, brotherhood etc.)
- geographically dispersed in two continents (Asia and Africa)
- Asian Muslims dispersed in different regions
- fragmentation due to ethnic origin, sect etc.

Islam cannot be a basis for revival of an Islam based single global state. Instead Muslims of the world can help each other to improve their own situation through self empowerment. The best way to do that is to go for regionalism, rather than Islamism or Nationalism. Regionalism, as in New Regionalism Approach:
Unisa Online - hetne98

Using this approach, the fragmented parts of Asian continent (China and India are already large enough integrated nation states) must integrate into two main Unions, ASEAN+ and Eurasia+.

Without political stability of a large entity, whatever progress a single smaller nation state makes, they can be rolled back by mistakes of leaders, interference by larger and more powerful hostile nations etc.. And democracy must take root and evolve so people can find their voice and move towards their destiny through trial and error.

Significant and systemic advancement of science and technology is a symptom of a healthy and stable social entity. So social stability is key. This is why I promote regional unions: EU, UNASUR, African Union and the ones mentioned above for Asia.