Islam and Democracy in Indonesia : Tolerance without Liberalism

[oprih]

austroloid people do not originate from these islands.
how about going back to your ancestral home?

View attachment 350735 View attachment 350736

That's scary especially the first picture, it's like a warzone.

 

[AndrewJin]

That's scary especially the first picture, it's like a warzone.

Only incompetent people will demonstrate by showing lack of civilisation.....

 

[initial_d]

Actualy only a few chinese ethnic indonesian that rich, lots of chinese ethnic indonesian in kalimantan, sumatra and elsewhere are poor, even poorer than locals etchnic indonesian, thus they become a fictim of human trafficking, many of chinese ethnic indonesian woman are for sale (bride sale) to taiwanese and mainland china mens,

 

[TaiShang]

I don't defend the political mindset they are propagating but these people are clearly Indonesians. Didn't the Chinese came during the colonization period?

There has been movement across East Asia from the time immemorial. There has been a school of thought that all Astronesian people originated from the island of Taiwan and then moved down south. So, it is really not possible to say whose ancestral roots emanated from where.

East Asia (which is NEA and SEA) is pretty much a single entity throughout history although there has been distinct cultures and national identities now.

Indonesia's problem is a lack of secular governance. The Islamist prism renders everything in either dark black (Islamist state ideology) or dark red (blood), figuratively speaking. If the public realms is cleared from the contagious disease in the form of religious indoctrination and radicalization, there would be a solution for class and material grievances.

It is, nonetheless, different from the present Kurdish uprising in Turkey, which is (or was) secular in essence. The government of Turkey is the radical Islamist one.

 

[Boss Dragun]

Indonesia's problem is a lack of secular governance. The Islamist prism renders everything in either dark black (Islamist state ideology) or dark red (blood), figuratively speaking. If the public realms is cleared from the contagious disease in the form of religious indoctrination and radicalization, there would be a solution for class and material grievances.

It is, nonetheless, different from the present Kurdish uprising in Turkey, which is (or was) secular in essence. The government of Turkey is the radical Islamist one.

the matter is simply nothing more than political. the day of governor elections is nearing. and since it's getting close by, you might wonder what's the real motive of this demonstration (hint : it's not about racism) . oh right, ahok (the one who gets all the protests) is the current governor of the capital city now. and he previously was a vice governor before the previous governor, jokowi, take the president seat. why don't they demonstrate before, then? besides, secularism is harder to implement than what it was on the paper.

don't confuse such a small event than the things going on with kurdish. we don't use weapons like they do in turkey.

Why? Just because they don't want any Chinese to climb to a position of power in Indonesia? I am a secular Muslim therefore I don't support this particular protest but many Indonesian citizens - real Indonesians - feel uneasy about the Chinese minority in their country. These people simply doesn't belong to Indonesia. Can't they legally migrate back to their homeland? Do they receive any help from the Chinese government?

the chinese, particularly the governor is now in the office. heck, he was a vice governor before. if we hate the chinese ethnics so much, why do we even elect him to be the vice governor in the first place?

you don't know the problem. the governor gets overly confident that he is accused of insulting koran (as shown in some videos circulating in youtube as well. too bad there is no english sub for that) . i'm not supporting the demonstration either. but a governor should not touch such delicate matters as it will be used by his opponent during the nearing election day, which is the reason why it happened as it is now.

icapable indonesians!
They have an instinct to make violent demonstation when they find chinese indonesians possess the upper class but not work hard to compete with chinese.

What a bunch of useless barbaric animals!

They do belong to the jungle.

really? animals calling other animals? look at these incompetent creatures.

 

[nang2]

What the heck is liberalism?!

 

[Viet]

a women was caned 23 strokes because she stood too close to her boyfriend.



An elderly Christian woman was caned 30 times because she sold alcohol.

 

[terranMarine]

How barbaric Indonesia is canning women for nothing.

 

[terranMarine]

It does not hurt her?

The comments found at youtube criticized Indonesia as f*cked up country

 

[afiq0110]

In our country... It is against the law for an unmarried couple to have sex... The law is derived from our beliefs... The moslem says, according to Qur'an, free sex is wrong... The christian either protestant and the catholic also said in their bible that free sex is wrong... I am sure hindus and buddha follower have the same rule about it... Every religion says the same about free sex... Free sex is wrong...

Dont comment just yet... Stay with me for a while, we will come to the point...

It is important, as an eastern culture country as indonesia, to uphold the culture... Our culture, as a nation, are based upon our beliefs...

So that means, our society, our people also have the same opinion about free sex... Free sex is wrong

I dont know what nationality you are right now, but if you dont agree with me in the 'free sex' thing... Well that is up to you... We could still be friends eventhough we dont always agree in some matters...

I hope you are still reading... Because i am about to closing in the topic you mentioned...

Indonesia consist of provinces... Some provinces had a special rights to specifically regulate their law different from the national law... But these laws are limited only in specific things... In these case, the enforcement of islamic law... Only one province declared this condition, and the province is Aceh Province...

Base upon the fear that the unmarried couple would lead to free sex, and to prevent the youngsters from following the act of free sex... The are several law that mandated restriction in man and woman interaction when they are not family related nor unmarried one...

A man and a woman just chit chat with each other in an open public place is allowed by these laws... But when an unmarried couple cuddle with each other in a private and closed place, the law will not allow that...

Those couple probably caught during their cuddling time...

The law also mandated that the police, the prosecutor must prove that the couple are guilty... They will be trial first... The couple is given the rights to defend them selves... And a council of islamic leader also present to give their opinion based upon our beliefs upon the matter...

So... There are laws... The citizen were given proper information about the law and restriction... But they just cant hold their lust... So they break the law... They got caught... They were trialled... The court find them guilty... They were punished...

In our society, dignity is an important thing... When the woman is caught, she gave a bad reputation to her family name... Society judgement is much more harder to bear compare to phisical punishment... That is why the punishment carried out in public... To set an example for the society... To warn the youngsters...

YOU SAID EARLIER THAT THE WOMAN WAS PUNISHED FOR DOING NOTHING...

In our belief, in our religion, free sex is wrong... A marriage, in our beliefs is a sacred commitment made by a man to the women's family that he will take responsibilities to take care of the woman... And the commitment is made in the name of Allah, God Almighty

A responsibility to fullfill the woman daily need, to protect the woman from harm, to guide the woman towards better understanding in implementing the beliefs in real life...

In Islam, a marriage is one way to respect a woman... We DO NOT see woman as merely a sex object, a tools to fulfill our desire... Nope, if we only see woman as a sex object, than we are disrespecting a woman, we disrespect our mothers... But instead, Islam put a woman dignity back, by a rule... A woman body can only be touch and be possesed by a man IF AND IF ONLY the man marry the woman...

And a marriage is about commitment, for both woman and man... To live together in happy or in bad times... In sickness and in health... Commitment to produce the next generation...

There is no commitment in free sex... Only couples lusting each other toward animal behaviour...

I am sorry for taking so much of your time
I am just trying to convince you that free sex is bad... Free sex is disrespecting a woman dignity...
And I am trully hoping that you are against free sex

Anyway... Thank you for your time... No heart feelings oke... All is well

 

[terranMarine]

In our country... It is against the law for an unmarried couple to have sex... The law is derived from our beliefs... The moslem says, according to Qur'an, free sex is wrong... The christian either protestant and the catholic also said in their bible that free sex is wrong... I am sure hindus and buddha follower have the same rule about it... Every religion says the same about free sex... Free sex is wrong...

Please do not comment on other religions if you have no clue what you are talking about. In Buddhism there's no such law about free sex is wrong so do not even speak for Buddhism. I cannot comment on Hindu, you will have to ask the Indians here if they have such laws. Same applies with Shintoism. East Asian religions are not barbaric as the ones of Islam, so do not not mix us up with you guys. This is some serious accusation.

 

[initial_d]

unlike you and your indo comrades, who post everything in fishing thread, I post on topic. you beat women in public, both old and young, because they don´t act according your islam view of extremism. where is your tolerance?

Will you tolerate someone using ampfetamine or marijuana in vietnam!? Absolutely not right!!
But if that guy smoke pot in amsterdam, the local law will let it, every country, province had their own law,
same in acheh province, they have sharia law to abide.
It's like eating dog meat in vietnam is okay, but if you eat dog meat in US, they will sent you to jail.....you have to respect the locals government law...
If you still don't understand, ill have to fetch you bananas lol

 

[Matirpola]

Why are Indos and Chinese fighting? Are you guys stupid? Asians need to work together to keep non-Asian powers out.

 

[katarabhumi]

The recent rally was mainly driven by politics. Yes, it was incited by the insult on Koran allegedly made by the governor but the rally wouldn't be that big if it isn't near the election time. The same group who wants Ahok (the current governor of Jakarta) to step down are the same who support non muslim leader elsewhere in Indonesia and even among protestors there are Christians, Chinese ethnic and organization who want the governor out of office -with their own reason.

A little known fact about Ahok is that he was partly raised by muslim family. It was his muslim family that paid his tuition and it was his muslim brother that made him his first company to run. They maintain close relationship until this day. So it's highly unlikely he made the insult on purpose, not to mention majority of his supporters are Jakartan muslim and he still need them.

I personally don't think that Ahok had made any insult on Koran. I get what he meant and I agree, but his words I admit can generate multiple interpretations, and using the momentum, his opponents just chose the interpretation that works against him.

As a non Jakartan, I don't care whether Ahok governor or not. All I can say is that this is Jakarta's affair and politics. It does not reflect situation in Indonesia as a whole.

unlike you and your indo comrades, who post everything in fishing thread, I post on topic. you beat women in public, both old and young, because they don't act according your islam view of extremism. where is your tolerance?

Says the one who brought maids, religion, and genocide on Champa in a fishing thread.

.

 

[Nike]

Since the beginning, they wanted to liberate the whole human race. That is, of course, in theory.

I believe Islam will reveal its tolerance as soon as it keeps its hands off guns. Christianity went through the same process before.

I had a final say in this matter. There is nothing wrong about Islam ás religion, but there is lies problems from their adherer in which is very vary, fractious and most had lot of intepretations about Islam itself.

No ideology and religion can escaping intepretation for power

Btw Ahok himself is very well versed about Islam and owed to his foster parents greatly