ISI under fire for failure to prevent Quetta bombing.

[Capt.Popeye]

Everyone is a self professed scientist here.
The dry weight of the truck is always mentioned in the paper work.
We know the density of water, put the truck on weighing bridge and if the discrepancy is huge lets say 500-600 Kilo then something is wrong. Saudi Customs uses these primitive tricks to bust massive narcotics smuggling rings!

Customs all over the world use things like what you and I have been speaking about. It is even used to unearth commercial frauds. And it works well, I may assure you. Even the weight-test was not used too much.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

The ring test, with a Hand Hammer works quite well to unearth inner false compartments. And if you combine that with a dip-stick; you can't go very wrong.

Everyone is a self professed scientist here.
The dry weight of the truck is always mentioned in the paper work.
We know the density of water, put the truck on weighing bridge and if the discrepancy is huge lets say 500-600 Kilo then something is wrong. Saudi Customs uses these primitive tricks to bust massive narcotics smuggling rings!

Of course, but do you think that all that can be done at a checkpost with the type of personnel there and with the amount of traffic they are required to check?

One does not need to be a scientist to see that it is impossible for FC personnel to do the required level of checks at a checkpost. Thus, a certain percentage determined attackers will likely still get through, and those that get caught are likely to blow themselves up at the checkpost.

The important thing is not to stop these trucks at a checkpost. The important thing is to prevent these suicide weapons from coming out on the road in the first place.

Customs all over the world use things like what you and I have been speaking about. It is even used to unearth commercial frauds. And it works well, I may assure you. Even the weight-test was not used too much.

Do you think that the paperwork of most vehicles will have reliable GVWR figures without being tampered with, on the road in Pakistan? Who is going to provide weigh scales for trucks at each checkpost?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Of course, but do you think that all that can be done at a checkpost with the type of personnel there and with the amount of traffic they are required to check?

One does not need to be a scientist to see that it is impossible for FC personnel to do the required level of checks at a checkpost. Thus, a certain percentage determined attackers will likely still get through, and those that get caught are likely to blow themselves up at the checkpost.

The important thing is not to stop these trucks at a checkpost. The important thing is to prevent these suicide weapons from coming out on the road in the first place.

See, weighing a truck at check barrier is not easily practicable. But climbing atop it, openining the inspection hatches, peering down with a flash-light, poking around with a dip-stick (the tank lorry itself carries one) or any long metal prod can give a rather clear idea of how the contents and structure of the tank(s) are disposed. Simultaneously another man walks around the tank structure using a hammer (or any metal object, a wrench or tire bar) and keeps ringing around, The sound(s) give a clear indication again of both the structure and the contents of the tank(s). One can determine division bulkheads of compartments and liquid/non-liquid contents by these methods. Once this kind of proccedures are set up, and they can be done by anybody; see the results. Simple yet effective methods.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

See, weighing a truck at check barrier is not easily practicable. But climbing atop it, openining the inspection hatches, peering down with a flash-light, poking around with a dip-stick (the tank lorry itself carries one) or any long metal prod can give a rather clear idea of how the contents and structure of the tank(s) are disposed. Simultaneously another man walks around the tank structure using a hammer (or any metal object, a wrench or tire bar) and keeps ringing around, The sound(s) give a clear indication again of both the structure and the contents of the tank(s). One can determine division bulkheads of compartments and liquid/non-liquid contents by these methods. Once this kind of proccedures are set up, and they can be done by anybody; see the results. Simple yet effective methods.

Very good. Now that a truck bomb is caught, what comes next but the inevitable blast at a busy checkpost.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Very good. Now that a truck bomb is caught, what comes next but the inevitable blast at a busy checkpost.

That is possible of course. But believe you me; even if that happens, the human casualty count will be less. Now will you check out the next vehicle check-point that you see-then you'll be able to explain why!

 

[mdcp]

It is not fault of ISI it is fault of all of us who elected this ineligible govt.
our interior minister is a joker and an idiot person, target killing in karachi, many attacks in quetta, punjab, kpk , free flow of arms, ammo, gun pwder everywhere, cia, black water, raw etc. still never resigned
I wish i put a donkey cart behind him but still he will be useless

 

[Amaa'n]

It takes 30 second to jump up a tanker with a hand held flash light and inspect the inside of the tanker. If Saudi's can do it then we can do it as well. Enough of lame excuses!

Are you serious? when was the last time you were in Pakistan? have you seen the traffic system and the size of traffic here? if they check each and every tanker like the way you mentioned then be prepared for a massive traffic in the whole area or in some cases whole city.
You can only stop and search only on random basis OR if you have solid intelligence that this is the truck look like or this is the vehicle number,
On the other note are you serious about checking Tanker with a hand held torch, there is something called fuel fumes,

See, weighing a truck at check barrier is not easily practicable. But climbing atop it, openining the inspection hatches, peering down with a flash-light, poking around with a dip-stick (the tank lorry itself carries one) or any long metal prod can give a rather clear idea of how the contents and structure of the tank(s) are disposed. Simultaneously another man walks around the tank structure using a hammer (or any metal object, a wrench or tire bar) and keeps ringing around, The sound(s) give a clear indication again of both the structure and the contents of the tank(s). One can determine division bulkheads of compartments and liquid/non-liquid contents by these methods. Once this kind of proccedures are set up, and they can be done by anybody; see the results. Simple yet effective methods.

though I agree with the method and have witnessed the procedure myself however the trucking system and the union we have are not very co-operative,

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Are you serious? when was the last time you were in Pakistan? have you seen the traffic system and the size of traffic here? if they check each and every tanker like the way you mentioned then be prepared for a massive traffic in the whole area or in some cases whole city.
You can only stop and search only on random basis OR if you have solid intelligence that this is the truck look like or this is the vehicle number,
On the other note are you serious about checking Tanker with a hand held torch, there is something called fuel fumes,

Oh, I am deadly serious in what I said. If the security scenario so demands then every vehicle including every tanker needs to be searched. And I've seen that being done in many parts of the world, though not during my past visits to Pakistan.

Let me tell you on the basis of my familiarity with hydrocarbons, that a hand-held flashlight (of reasonably good construction) is no hazard. Apart from that there are "intrinsically safe flashlights" (so called tanker-safe) ones that can be lowered into gas-ridden atmospheres without any risk. But no need for even that in carrying out this proceedure. Remember that you (or anybody else) is just shining a flashlight "beam" through the inspection/access hatches of the tank, not entering it.

though I agree with the method and have witnessed the procedure myself however the trucking system and the union we have are not very co-operative,

Good if you agree, though I hope you are convinced. Since I have exhaustively explained the proccedure. Because I've done it myself.
In the end; how does it matter if somebody is co-operative or not. The "business-end of a gun" is sufficiently persuasive for even the reluctant types.

You have to decide how secure you want to be. That will then decide the seriousness of the methods that you employ. And the benefits will then be commensurate.

 

[Amaa'n]

Oh, I am deadly serious in what I said. If the security scenario so demands then every vehicle including every tanker needs to be searched. And I've seen that being done in many parts of the world, though not during my past visits to Pakistan.

Let me tell you on the basis of my familiarity with hydrocarbons, that a hand-held flashlight (of reasonably good construction) is no hazard. Apart from that there are "intrinsically safe flashlights" (so called tanker-safe) ones that can be lowered into gas-ridden atmospheres without any risk. But no need for even that in carrying out this proceedure. Remember that you (or anybody else) is just shining a flashlight "beam" through the inspection/access hatches of the tank, not entering it.



Good if you agree, though I hope you are convinced. Since I have exhaustively explained the proccedure. Because I've done it myself.

I never had any doubts about the procedure, however my concern was about the one carrying out the procedure and the surroundings.
Like in Rawalpindi Cantt, any truck entering the city after 9:00pm has to be parked on one side, and there is hugeeeee queue of trucks and tankers, there is a Army post there, and every truck is checked properly. Same goes for Islamabad, any truck entering the city is checked with fancy scanners by Islamabad police.
Now 100 m from that same post their is a construction work going on, thanks to CM Shabaz Sharif, and has a heavy traffic load. if you try to do that at day time then as I said be prepared for a chaos in the city.

In the end; how does it matter if somebody is co-operative or not. The "business-end of a gun" is sufficiently persuasive for even the reluctant types.

You have to decide how secure you want to be. That will then decide the seriousness of the methods that you employ. And the benefits will then be commensurate.

believe me if a solider start showing business end of his gun to every nut job truck driver then these unions will call for a strike

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I never had any doubts about the procedure, however my concern was about the one carrying out the procedure and the surroundings.
Like in Rawalpindi Cantt, any truck entering the city after 9:00pm has to be parked on one side, and there is hugeeeee queue of trucks and tankers, there is a Army post there, and every truck is checked properly. Same goes for Islamabad, any truck entering the city is checked with fancy scanners by Islamabad police.
Now 100 m from that same post their is a construction work going on, thanks to CM Shabaz Sharif, and has a heavy traffic load. if you try to do that at day time then as I said be prepared for a chaos in the city.

believe me if a solider start showing business end of his gun to every nut job truck driver then these unions will call for a strike

Then all I can say; in Pakistan's present circumstances, it is simply a pity!
You can only be as secure as you WANT to be.

 

[Amaa'n]

Then all I can say; in Pakistan's present circumstances, it is simply a pity!
You can only be as secure as you WANT to be.

The problem is we people don't want to compromise even for a penny or a second. Everyday I see people pointing fingers on the traffic warden for not doing his job properly, what they fail to understand and see is that they themselves have stopped the car in the middle of a chowk when they were supposed to stop on zebra crossing.......
same goes for internet warriors who very easily point fingers that ISI is not doing anything yet we forget we carry an illegal firearm

 

[foxbat]

No it does not. Genius.

In Pakistan, it is the job of FIA to combat foreign agencies and their agents.

ISI was created solely for operations overseas and that is their sole mandate.

And isnt India, Israel, USA and Afghanistan considered overseas for Pakistan ??

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hamid Karzai to press Pakistan to release more Taliban

David Cameron invites Taliban to talks over Afghanistan's future

They r really crazy.