Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[waz]

The vast majority of Muslim states are fine and not in turmoil or in "flames".

 

[acid rain]

The vast majority of Muslim states are fine and not in turmoil or in "flames".

It's a 50 - 50 split with chances of more coming under the fold.

 

[waz]

It's a 50 - 50 split with chances of more coming under the fold.

So 50% of majority Muslim states are in flames? Am I correct in this is what you stated?

 

[Kompromat]

Solution is simple, Nuclearise Indonesia and Turkey.

They'll bear the burden for stability in their region. Democratic Islamic states should become powerful, it will play a role for bringing similar structures in non democratic Muslim states.

The trick to Muslim unity is pan Islamic world democracy. If every country is democratic they would have to work for Muslim integration.

 

[acid rain]

So 50% of majority Muslim states are in flames? Am I correct in this is what you stated?

More or less, though it would be a great exercise to list down all 58? muslim states and the dangers if any of them going into turmoil or falling victim to extremism.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Most non Muslim countries in the world have separated religion from state - I assume there's a good enough reason for that.

You "assume"? And yet, you are not sure as to why most governments follow a relatively secular model?

Islam has its code for the perfect human being. One should strive toward mental, physical and spiritual perfection. But, is there any such thing as perfection?

Some Islamists try (in vain) to bring about a "perfect" and "Islamic" society. These systems typically cause a breakdown of reality due to rejection. It's not like the will of Allah is limited to that of an inter-galactic bureaucrat.

Secularism does not necessarily equate to progression. People must be free to practice what they believe in within any democracy as long as it doesn't ensue chaos, violence, disorder and uncertainty.

 

[acid rain]

@waz,

I just checked that the top 50 failed state index is dominated by muslim states - so yes, the 50% that I spoke of is right there...maybe more.

 

[waz]

More or less, though it would be a great exercise to list down all 58? muslim states and the dangers if any of them going into turmoil or falling victim to extremism.

Far less than that. Most Muslim states are fine.

Here I'll list them for you in alphabetical order. I'll simply put fine for ok or turmoil for not. I'll add 50/50 for in between.


Afghanistan Turmoil
Albania Fine
Algeria Fine
Azerbaijan Fine
Bahrain Fine
Bangladesh 50/50
Bosnia Fine
Brunei Fine
Burkina Faso Fine
Chad Fine
Comoros Fine
Djibouti Fine
Egypt Fine now under the general
Gambia Fine
Guinea Fine
Guinea Bissau Fine
Indonesia Fine
Iran Fine
Iraq Turmoil
Ivory Coast Fine
Jordan Fine
Kazakhstan Fine
Kosovo Fine
Kuwait Fine
Kyrgyzstan Fine
Lebanon 50/50
Libya 50/50
Malaysia Fine
Maldives Fine
Mali Turmoil
Mauritania 50/50
Mayotte Fine
Morocco Fine
Niger Fine
Oman Fine
Pakistan 50/50
Palestine Turmoil
Qatar Fine
Saudia Arabia Fine
Senegal Fine
Sierra Leone Fine
Somalia Turmoil
Sudan 50/50 maybe fine due to South Sudan leaving and Darfur calming down.
Syria Turmoil
Tajikistan Fine
Tanzania Fine
Tunisia Fine
Turkey Fine
Turkmenistan Fine
UAE Fine
Uzbekistan Fine
Western Sahara 50/50
Yemen 50/50

@waz,

I just checked that the top 50 failed state index is dominated by muslim states - so yes, the 50% that I spoke of is right there...maybe more.

Huh?

The 2013 Failed States Index - Interactive Map and Rankings

Less than half, 25 to be exact (out of 60). These states are not all effected by extremism either. The index has corruption, poverty etc. Muslim states do not dominate it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What did you said about karbala !?

Here is the full quotation (the poet is mowlana Muhammad Ali Johar born December 10, 1878 – died January 4, 1931)

Qatal E Hussain (RA) Asal Mein Marg E Yazeed Hai
Islam Zinda Hota Hai Har Karbala K Baad..........


Translation:

Qatal E Hussain (RA) Asal Mein Marg E Yazeed Hai (Assassination of Hussain ra is in fact death of Yazeed)


Islam Zinda Hota Hai Har Karbala K Baad.........(Islam was reborn after a horrible incident of Karbala)


Not sure if it will fit the Iranian style, but in urdu, it shows deep deep reverence towards Hussain ra.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

In Pakistani Sunni poetry, there is a huge potion set aside for deep reverence towards Imam Hussain ra sacrifice.

Additionally the highest bravery medal for Pakistani army is named after Ali ra.

It is called

Nishan -e- Haider

Iqbal in his religious poetry pays homage to Sahabah and the family of the Holy Prophet PBUH.
Shias say they cant do better justice than him in his tribute to Muhammad PBUH's family.

no wonder the Syrian and Iraqi formula didnt succeed in Pakistan. despite tens of thousands of deaths of Muslims of all faiths at the hands of terrorists .. Alhamdolillah we didnt see a Shia sunni civil war in Pakistan and the reason is the binding force of Pakistan army that has people of all faiths as brothers and sisters


@SOHEIL read Firdosi of Iqbal it is in Persian.

 

[acid rain]

@waz, thanks for the list, I think one can delve deeper into potential risks or why half of these states are considered fragile or failed.

we also need to define whats turmoil here according to an accepted definition, if you mean by absolute civil war then the figure you say stands true.
But then turmoil or danger can be expanded into what the OP wishes to communicate as well.

 

[kalu_miah]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


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@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

We need genetic transplantation (preferably ones from Eastern Siberia using artificial insemination), specially among the elite, stupidity is in the genes of most Muslim population. The smart ones used to lead before, that is why they were doing ok, but the genes diluted with local stupid ones and hence ushering in an era of stupid elites ruling over other stupid masses. Classic case of blind leading the blind.

What we need is an outside leader of superior intelligence and genetics in charge of Muslim world and then all Muslim nations should follow this leader. I propose Japan (@Nihonjin1051 ) to be that nation, if they are interested and willing, to bring order back to this chaotic Muslim world and thus gain an eternally grateful and powerful ally.

I used to think that China would be able to lead Muslim nations, but lately I am getting the feeling that they are not fit for this job. They are too big by themselves, 1.2 billion nation of Han Chinese, and they really need no help from any other group, other than ensuring raw material and energy source. Japan is small, but they are an intelligent and developed nation and do not have historic enmity with Muslims and have not been engaged in plundering within Muslim world. Question is, would they be interested?

I have more specific plans, but I will discuss those once an interested leading nation is found.

 

[pak-marine]

Arabs and Persians are at each other's throat since early times and its still going on, but unfortunately this power struggle has been painted in a religious/sectarian color to garner more support for the respective side. Fringe groups being propped up to do the dirty work from each side and misquoting Quran to justify their misdeeds. And the moderate muslims find themselves inadequate to confront such groups, and disapprove them ideologically rather than being defensive.

well summarized .. precisely the situation of ummat e muslima

 

[Audio]

list of countries

Algeria for example - independence war against French, civil war against Islamists in the 90's, just last year a mass of hostages were taken at some oil field facility prompting massive Algerian intervention.

Bahrain - rebellion suppressed with Saudi help, last year i think. You gave it fine, i agree it looks fine on the outside, but if there was enough tension to start an uprising.....

Indonesia - Free Aceh Movement, Papua rebels.

Bosnia - massive riots in the recent months due to ineffectiveness of the government

Off the top of my head....

 

[waz]

@waz, thanks for the list, I think one can delve deeper into potential risks or why half of these states are considered fragile or failed.

we also need to define whats turmoil here according to an accepted definition, if you mean by absolute civil war then the figure you say stands true.
But then turmoil or danger can be expanded into what the OP wishes to communicate as well.

Thank you as well.

If we delve deeper the answers are to be found in poverty, corruption, lack of education and so forth.

I took turmoil to mean armed conflict or threat of it. The 50/50 designation I gave to your expansion above i.e. danger or threat of. Most Muslim states remain stable in that sense.