Is the non-usury laws in Islam actually practiced in modern banks in Islamic countries

[REhorror]

Well, we all know the no-usury laws in Islamic teaching.

But is this still practiced in modern Islamic countries? Do your local banks have interest rates?

 

[Mentee]

There's a provision in the Wholly Quran which encourages us to pay 1/5th or 20% of our net profit earned from whatever halal means to a certain categories mentioned there in .

Now if Muslims stop fabricating meanings of Quranic words to preserve their monetary interests , almost all of the socio economic issues could be resolved -------.

 

[nang2]

Bro, it is that logic that encourages inflation and usury.

Still, just wonder how islam bros rationalize this thing since it obviously goes against Islamic teachings.

Your logic discourages all forms of borrowing. You might as well claim non-borrowing law in Islam.

 

[R2D2]

Yes - America is responsible for the potholes in Pakistan and overflowing gutters. Pakistanis are just poor defenseless and helpless eunuchs in this

America does not allow islamic political and economic system. only allows capitalism with its unequal distribution benifitting the rich like the proposed raised road from gulberg, lahore to motorway.

Hi,

USURY is not practiced in all banks---. Only money lenders use & practice usury---.

All other banks use fair interest charges---.

USURY is charging interest like the money lenders used to charge 1400 years ago in saudi arabia---100---200---300 % .

Islamic shariat court has given verdict against bank interest in pakistan.

 

[Finer]

it is interesting how those cases were handled centuries ago


inflation happens when too much money chases too few goods

No. When you limit the goods on purpose to set outrageous prices for greediness.

There's a provision in the Wholly Quran which encourages us to pay 1/5th or 20% of our net profit earned from whatever halal means to a certain categories mentioned there in .

Now if Muslims stop fabricating meanings of Quranic words to preserve their monetary interests , almost all of the socio economic issues could be resolved -------.

That is called income taxes. It is mandatory in Islam. After Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) death, the first war broke out over taxes. The war was declared on the people who refused to pay taxes. Taxes help poor people and disadvantaged communities - not rich people hence rich people hate to pay the taxes.

But interest enslaves the mankind in form of inflation, rising cost, debt, and corruption of currency.

 

[MastanKhan]

Qur'an [2:275]

Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no different than interest.” But Allah has permitted trading and forbidden interest. Whoever refrains—after having received warning from their Lord—may keep their previous gains, and their case is left to Allah. As for those who persist, it is they who will be the residents of the Fire. They will be there forever.

Hi,

Many muslims claim sainthood when it comes to interest---but will fornicate---sodomize children ---rape little girls---will participate in systematic programmed rape / blackmail / snuff videos of muslim children---but when it comes to interest---it is Haram---.

 

[nahtanbob]

Hi,

Many muslims claim sainthood when it comes to interest---but will fornicate---sodomize children ---rape little girls---will participate in systematic programmed rape / blackmail / snuff videos of muslim children---but when it comes to interest---it is Haram---.

everyone has their priorities in life

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Hi,

Many muslims claim sainthood when it comes to interest---but will fornicate---sodomize children ---rape little girls---will participate in systematic programmed rape / blackmail / snuff videos of muslim children---but when it comes to interest---it is Haram---.

Comprehension, understanding, upbringing?

There ain't no angels here, and I'm no judge!
Part of being a Muslim is that you NEVER reconcile with your demons.
Rabis find a workaround, churches sell indulgences or medium as savior in christ... others either don't consider it/them wrong or change colors and tunes in case of dharmics depending on their audience, millieu or locale/setting.

So, choose what you may... and do as you wish.
It is exactly why I quoted verbatim in black and white, As decreed!

 

[Kejo]

@Indos

What you have written is absolutely outside of Quran, Sunnah and Islam in general.

ALL kinds of usury and interest are haram in Islam. Period.

Stop writing BS.

Quran verses in my opinion stresses on Individual lending where you dont act as intermediary like for example it is Haram for me to lend money to my relatives who are in difficult situation by applying interest on it.

There is verses in Quran about the forbiden to give high interest, so it means normal interest is allowed, and this verse IMO shows the legality to use interest for Banking system. But it is Haram for out side of Banking System like personal lending. That particular verse also shows that Banking system should be controlled by the state that can punish any bank who apply high interest to their lenders, thus the verse can be seen as the religious basis for the formation of Central Bank owned by the state to control and regulate the banking sector, not allowing them to do their business freely.

NO.

Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no different than interest.” But Allah has permitted trading and forbidden interest. Whoever refrains—after having received warning from their Lord—may keep their previous gains, and their case is left to Allah. As for those who persist, it is they who will be the residents of the Fire. They will be there forever.

Surah Al-Baqarah - 275 - Quran.com

Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no differen...

quran.com

Don't make excuses.

 

[Indos]

@Indos

What you have written is absolutely outside of Quran, Sunnah and Islam in general.

ALL kinds of usury and interest are haram in Islam. Period.

Stop writing BS.


NO.

Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no different than interest.” But Allah has permitted trading and forbidden interest. Whoever refrains—after having received warning from their Lord—may keep their previous gains, and their case is left to Allah. As for those who persist, it is they who will be the residents of the Fire. They will be there forever.

Surah Al-Baqarah - 275 - Quran.com

Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no differen...

quran.com

Don't make excuses.

I see the verse is for personal lending, I never do that in whole my life, lending my money to other person by adding interest on the loan. Never do it in my whole life. For bond, my interpretation is that buying state bond can still be considered as OK as it helps my country which is also the biggest Muslim country in term of population and overall economy. Indonesian government also issues Islamic Bond.

But for Banking system my interpretation is rather different. The money is not own by them, they are just intermediary, they need profit to do that in order to run the system, paying salary for the employee, paying money to invest in ATM, branches, security, etc. How can they do that without using interest ? Securing the system is also expensive as they are hackers every where. Not cheap at all if you know how much banking system nowadays spend on data security.

Islamic system IMO is not there to ban banking system, but the interest should be in line with the individual Bank performance as the money put on the bank will be seen as investment. That is the perfect thing to do as my personal bank is also Islamic Bank which is Bank Shariah Indonesia.

I use Non Islamic Bank for my business for the sake of easiness doing business though. Not because I want to violate Quran, but because Muslim should be stronger financially, some time we do thing based on what will be the end of outcome, this is why there is verse in Quran about prophet Musa and Qadir where it is written to teach us that we should be more flexible and not that too sticky.

Overall and the End result of the action should be the target, if it is good for Islam, Muslim, and help strenghthening Islam so there thing that can be tolerated In my opinion. I never do bribing in running my business until now, I reject it even when I risk loosing the contract, so what I say as toleration is not something that is trully sinning action, but it is difficult to not use Non Islamic Bank when we run a business and a business also has other stake holders who some time dont share our conservative value, so we need to do some compromize.

So far we see the banking system is good to make money become effective tool to generate business activity by circulating the money and not put them in non productive mean ( staying idle ) where in the end more money circulation will benefit the society as a whole like creating jobs, demand, governmen spending ( state bond ) and also state and private investments.

Shariah Islam is intended to prosper the people and make them as having good moral. Making human become good people in their heart, productive, and not harming other people. Shariah Islam is also there to help Islam and Muslim. Stronger Muslim is better than weak Muslim. That is the reason of Shariah Islam. It is not just regulation for the sake of regulation. If we understand Islam, it is made to make us successful, strengthening Allah power on Earth through His servants strenght, prospering Muslim society, and make Muslim has good moral and behavior.

Banking system needs regulation and perfection for sure to be more inline with the verse in Quran.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I have canadian colleagues here at work. They talk about some tragic stories fo pakistani muslims who did the " supposed shariah " type financing for their home loans---.

The terms were so bad and horrible and there was no way to get out of their financial predicament----.

 

[CIA Mole]

u guys rly think its a smart idea to copy erdotard?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Hi,

I have canadian colleagues here at work. They talk about some tragic stories fo pakistani muslims who did the " supposed shariah " type financing for their home loans---.

The terms were so bad and horrible and there was no way to get out of their financial predicament----.

Exactly!

A classic, square peg in a round hole conundrum. The two are diametrically opposed, different systems altogether...
The simplistic understanding of contemporary "scholarship" is to translate/reconcile edicts from a conflicting paradigm... creating this snag.

We have essentially sleepwalked from calling an "object" of transaction as money, to an instrument of time as money.
It was bound to happen... for money changers only derived value by compounding the original with the length of time the object was borrowed. The two coincided... as slavery gave way to indentured servitude and objects to instruments.

It is a conceptual difference.

 

[MastanKhan]

Exactly!

A classic, square peg in a round hole conundrum. The two are diametrically opposed, different systems altogether...
The simplistic understanding of contemporary "scholarship" is to translate/reconcile edicts from a conflicting paradigm... creating this snag.

We have essentially sleepwalked from calling an "object" of transaction as money, to an instrument of time as money.
It was bound to happen... for money changers only derived value by compounding the original with the length of time the object was borrowed. The two coincided... as slavery gave way to indentured servitude and objects to instruments.

It is a conceptual difference.

Hi,

Please write it in simpler language---.

 

[EternalMortal]

I see the verse is for personal lending, I never do that in whole my life, lending my money to other person by adding interest on the loan. Never do it in my whole life. For bond, my interpretation is that buying state bond can still be considered as OK as it helps my country which is also the biggest Muslim country in term of population and overall economy. Indonesian government also issues Islamic Bond.

But for Banking system my interpretation is rather different. The money is not own by them, they are just intermediary, they need profit to do that in order to run the system, paying salary for the employee, paying money to invest in ATM, branches, security, etc. How can they do that without using interest ? Securing the system is also expensive as they are hackers every where. Not cheap at all if you know how much banking system nowadays spend on data security.

Islamic system IMO is not there to ban banking system, but the interest should be in line with the individual Bank performance as the money put on the bank will be seen as investment. That is the perfect thing to do as my personal bank is also Islamic Bank which is Bank Shariah Indonesia.

I use Non Islamic Bank for my business for the sake of easiness doing business though. Not because I want to violate Quran, but because Muslim should be stronger financially, some time we do thing based on what will be the end of outcome, this is why there is verse in Quran about prophet Musa and Qadir where it is written to teach us that we should be more flexible and not that too sticky.

Overall and the End result of the action should be the target, if it is good for Islam, Muslim, and help strenghthening Islam so there thing that can be tolerated In my opinion. I never do bribing in running my business until now, I reject it even when I risk loosing the contract, so what I say as toleration is not something that is trully sinning action, but it is difficult to not use Non Islamic Bank when we run a business and a business also has other stake holders who some time dont share our conservative value, so we need to do some compromize.

So far we see the banking system is good to make money become effective tool to generate business activity by circulating the money and not put them in non productive mean ( staying idle ) where in the end more money circulation will benefit the society as a whole like creating jobs, demand, governmen spending ( state bond ) and also state and private investments.

Shariah Islam is intended to prosper the people and make them as having good moral. Making human become good people in their heart, productive, and not harming other people. Shariah Islam is also there to help Islam and Muslim. Stronger Muslim is better than weak Muslim. That is the reason of Shariah Islam. It is not just regulation for the sake of regulation. If we understand Islam, it is made to make us successful, strengthening Allah power on Earth through His servants strenght, prospering Muslim society, and make Muslim has good moral and behavior.

Banking system needs regulation and perfection for sure to be more inline with the verse in Quran.

there is nothing there that says it’s for personal lending. It literally says TRADE is halal but interest forbidden. If anything this refers to BUSINESS dealing. There are plenty of ways to make finance a business WITHOUT an interest based loans. There’s also plenty of ways to fund a government without interest based loans.

stop following your own desires. The Quran is very clear on this.

@Trango Towers
No, ANY amount of interest is riba no matter how small b/c it’s the time value of money that matters. Why are you as a Muslim even using western definitions for usury/interest when ISLAMIC scholarship has made it clear what is riba & what isn’t? this is not even their own original understanding. The concept of usury being excessive interest came during secularization as a way to justify lending money on interest.

Also, read An Introduction to Islamic Finance, by Mufti Taqi Usmani. There is no “hidden interest”. That is also no excuse to keep actual overt interest anyways.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Hi,

Please write it in simpler language---.

That was the shortest possible I could have posted... I'll try to unfurl some more

Exactly!

A classic, square peg in a round hole conundrum. The two are diametrically opposed, different systems altogether...

The current fiat system works on levying interest over a specified period of time. In Islam, money has no time component you simply have to make the object whole again... such as gold... once mined it has a physical presence and value based on market. So, you do not commodify yourself for a specific period of time... i.e. indenture.

The simplistic understanding of contemporary "scholarship" is to translate/reconcile edicts from a conflicting paradigm... creating this snag.

Contemporary scholarship deals with time instrument of interest as "an object" such as physical gold... but than to make it whole tries to put time coefficient going over hoops and optics. Essentially trying to declare their square peg round.
The two are incompatible.

We have essentially sleepwalked from calling an "object" of transaction as money, to an instrument of time as money.

The redefined money and markets, as done over past couple of centuries, has completely redefined what we call money today... it went from gold/silver... i.e physical money... to a paper tender in lieu such as in gold/silver standard. Codified by Bretton Woods agreement and it's spawned institutions... later abandoning the gold standard altogether and going full fiat... but mandating critical markets to function only in such fiat.
We completed the circle!

It was bound to happen... for money changers only derived value by compounding the original with the length of time the object was borrowed.

it is physically impossible to perpetually earn more than the lent sum... if money(the physical one) has a finite presence. Therefore, a fiat that keeps inflating into perpetuity is the only answer for the lenders to keep the enterprise alive.

The two coincided... as slavery gave way to indentured servitude and objects to instruments.

British abolished slavery only to bring in indentured labor... hired over time and they, the laborers, get to keep their baggage. Meaning the investor was forever green... profitable in perpetuity. Which is what fiat essentially needed... a labor that is hired on time and slaves over time... making both the "lender" and owner/investor/borrower or whatever, profitable!
Over mankind!

It is a conceptual difference.

The two remain irreconcilable!

The system essentially puts the inanimate "profit" as in charge and lender, it's surrogate.