Is SUPARCO REALLY a failure?

[Meesna]

Pakistan can still recover from here. West is generally sympathetic to Pakistan. I don't think India was ever a real threat to Pakistan but it’s even less so now. India's economy is growing, and the last thing India would like to risk its economy with is a conflict. India is also occupied with China militarily. Also, Pakistan has nuclear deterrence. Pakistan is in ideal position to focus fully on economy and build economic bridges with west and other countries on the lines of South Korea for instance.

However, Pakistani Punjabi mentality being what it is Pakistani Punjabi military has just taken another loan of $500 million (as part of $2.8 billion loan in total in July - see link below) to buy fighters from China. If any further loans are to be taken then they must be invested in export oriented industry so Pakistan can both repay loan (or at least interest) and also make its profit. But can you get Pakistani Punjabis to understand that? Not in a million years. They are still waiting for their Muhammad bin Qasim to arrive and start conquering, and in the meanwhile are preparing for war. Building economy means nothing to them.

جولائی 2023 میں پاکستان پر قرض 2.8 ارب ڈالر مزید بڑھ گیا

اسلام آباد سعودی عرب کی جانب سے 2 ارب ڈالر کے ٹائم...

jang.com.pk

 

[epebble]

military has just taken another loan of $500 million (as part of $2.8 billion loan in total in July - see link below) to buy fighters from China. If any further loans are to be taken then they must be invested in export oriented industry so Pakistan can both repay loan (or at least interest) and also make its profit.

While your arguments are good, that $500 million loan may be 'vendor financing'. i.e., China is not giving a check, but a giving the loan in kind by selling fighter aircrafts. If Pakistan doesn't buy these planes, there won't be any money coming in. This is just a way for China to build more military aircraft and announce these sales to market the planes to others.

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan is a country for and by army generals. The same army that allegedly murdered Fatima Jinnah and led to the dismemberment of half of the country.

For Pakistan to reach its potential, the army generals have to be subdued much like Erdogan subdued his army generals. You can’t have a corrupt and criminal generals running every aspect of the Pakistani life.

 

[Meesna]

While your arguments are good, that $500 million loan may be 'vendor financing'. i.e., China is not giving a check, but a giving the loan in kind by selling fighter aircrafts. If Pakistan doesn't buy these planes, there won't be any money coming in. This is just a way for China to build more military aircraft and announce these sales to market the planes to others.

Nonproductive loans are unsustainable and should be refused. Also with no accountability of Generals its highly likely some of it went to Generals’ overseas accounts so this is another way to put more burden of loans on public for personal corruption.

 

[MM_Haider]

i don't understand one thing... if Pakistan with help of SUPARCO can launch Shaheen III... why it can't launch civilian space probe missions/ rockets ??? The launch vehicle for both is essentially the same.

 

[imadul]

You need character in yourself before blaming others. That you don’t do so no solution. There is widespread corruption of all sorts among Pakistanis but no, the first thing you think is someone else's fault. US just gave you $100 million in flood relief, China only gave $10 million. If you can do better go ahead but until then start from yourself; as Pakistan's problem is Pakistanis before anyone else. Pakistanis just don't do anything right and then blame it on anyone but themselves.


Generals and other leaders come from among you. They are a reflection of you, just with more power.

O Bhai, what are you talking.
A friend at SSGC, BE in Electronic from DCET a brilliant engineert despite DCET reputation made design to convert C-130 to AEW&C in early 90's. AM Shamim asked what could be his cut.
He ofc back tracked, he was a man of impeccable integrity. He went to USA, got his MS and PhD in LASER and optical electronics in 3-4 years.
He is professor there and has been engaged to work on several of PENTAGON projects.

Tell me about it.

 

[Meesna]

Another obsession of Punjabis is to destroy valuable farmlands and building DHAs and Bahria Town and what not on top. Even when Punjabis construct, they destroy.

Why can't Punjabis build houses on beeches of Baluchistan where infinite land is available? Not necessarily in Gawadar or places owned by Baluchis but presumably there is plenty of land on Balucistan coast which is not owned by anyone.

This could be highly lucrative for government to develop the land and sell at premium including to overseas Pakistanis. Add water sports and ferries and soon everyone would want a seafront property. Use desalinated sea water for population as well as for small scale agriculture to provide fresh vegetables to locals.

This will help reduce inland population congestion, pollution and pressure on resources.

Part of the land sale proceeds can go to subside housing for Baluch but no, Punjabis would rather spend more to kill Baluch than to spend less on Baluch to make them happy.

 

[epebble]

Nonproductive loans are unsustainable and should be refused. Also with no accountability of Generals its highly likely some of it went to Generals’ overseas accounts so this is another way to put more burden of loans on public for personal corruption.

Agree. But if Pakistan really wants fighter aircraft and these are good value for money, then no harm buying it; corruption excepted. And telling Pakistan military not to buy new toys is a fool's errand anyway. How do you tell a bee not to eat the honey?

 

[epebble]

i don't understand one thing... if Pakistan with help of SUPARCO can launch Shaheen III... why it can't launch civilian space probe missions/ rockets ??? The launch vehicle for both is essentially the same.

It is difficult to have reliable launch vehicles, but it is much, much, more difficult to have an autonomous system to land on a distant astronomical body, especially one without atmosphere. The lander has to have near perfect performance to decelerate and land on the body with near zero speed. And it has to do this on a surface it doesn't know much about i.e., are there craters, boulders, quicksand (regolith)?

The chance of failure is quite high. See:

Program	Country/Organization	Type	Landing attempts	Soft-landed	Outcome pending	Notes
Luna	USSR	robotic	27	7		Historical program; Russia's Luna 25 (2023) is part of successor program
Surveyor	NASA	robotic	7	5		Historical program
Apollo	NASA	crewed	7	6		Historical program
Soviet crewed lunar programs	USSR	crewed	0	0		Historical programs; 3 uncrewed T2K variant of the LK lunar lander were tested in Earth orbit between November 1970 and August 1971
Chang'e	CNSA	robotic	3	3
Chandrayaan	ISRO	robotic	2	1
Beresheet	spaceIL	robotic	1	0
Hakuto-R	ispace	robotic	1	0
Luna-Glob	Roscosmos	robotic	1	0		Successor program to the Soviet Luna programme.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

SUPARCO is definitely a failure. A complete waste of tax payer's money. Thousands of employees taking salaries, perks, pensions and everything without any productivity. They are now used to go office and wait for 3:00 pm. An organization must have an active project. The employees must have interest and clear objectives and timelines.

I think biggest killer in ALL Pakistani state organizations like steel mills, PIA, NESCOM, KRL, HIT, SUPARCO etc is the concept of "Pakki naukri" or permanent Govt service. That If you are employed once you cannot be fired. If Pakistan has to change for better than these laws must CHANGE. If you don't work or you give no productivity then you are FIRED!. Tax payers of this country are literally feeding hundreds of thousands of Muft khor officers with ZERO productivity.

As far as SUPARCO is concerned. First of all they have to be given clear objectives and milestones and have to be told mass number of suspensions from govt service if those are not met. Then they have to be given funds to do those objectives. Obviously we cannot aim to launch a rover at Moon all of a sudden. Our first main goal should be to develop a rocket for Low Earth Orbit. Other organisations like NESCOM, KRL should be involved with tasks being distributed. Future belongs to space powers. We all know space is being weaponized as well. US made a separate branch for space force, other countries are following it. India has lots of military satellites. All communications, information warfare, spying and many military applications of satellites are already part of modern warfare. Just imagine how near future will look like for the countries left behind in space rocket technologies.

 

[Meesna]

Q. Is SUPARCO REALLY a failure?​

A. Yes. Were you expecting differently? Pakistani Punjabi/Khatm e Nabuwat pagal kuttas "honouring" founder of SUPARCO;

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[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

yes failed idea

 

[Clutch]

Over the past day I've notice so many Pakistani's feeling down, whether on facebook, instagram, twitter X, reddit, whatsapp, even Google! Demanding it be shutdown or run by civilians...

We really need to set the record straight here. I mean come on, look at all these successful launches! I think I counted 32 from 1989.

Not only that but the phenomenal folks are going a Lunar prediction program where the different phases of the moon are predicted. A quick google search shows there's no other space agency doing this.

View attachment 948339

Chronology of Pakistan's rocket tests - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People are depressed because Pakistan is a failed banana republic of Faujistan!

 

[epebble]

Q. Is SUPARCO REALLY a failure?​

A. Yes. Were you expecting differently? Pakistani Punjabi/Khatm e Nabuwat pagal kuttas "honouring" founder of SUPARCO;

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It is sad to see what looks like middle class youth filled with so much sectarian hate that they shamelessly deface the only scientist of international stature and repute that Pakistan has produced.

 

[Redbeanpaste]

While your arguments are good, that $500 million loan may be 'vendor financing'. i.e., China is not giving a check, but a giving the loan in kind by selling fighter aircrafts. If Pakistan doesn't buy these planes, there won't be any money coming in. This is just a way for China to build more military aircraft and announce these sales to market the planes to others.

It is still a loan not a grant. It still needs to be repaid.