Is Luyten's establishment of Delhi trying to pull an Egypt on India?

[jamahir]

Did Afganistan succeed?

yes, it did succeed... afghanistan was socialist for years, until cia succeeded in its regime change attempt, first via qaeda, then via taliban.

why forget that??

Give me any example of utopian society where army is in control?

i never said i want military rule... the army must be defender of the social system, but only when that system is worth defending... if the social system is backward and perverted, the army must act, in conjunction with the intellectuals.

Yes, some people use only one part of brain, and totally forget about other aspects. What happened to him during Six Day war? But yes, some crappy people beyond the understanding of Nasser failure,

nevertheless, nasser was a leader whose appeal went beyond egypt... one of my old colleagues was named after him.

 

[kaku1]

yes, it did succeed... afghanistan was socialist for years, until cia succeeded in its regime change attempt, first via qaeda, then via taliban.

why forget that??

Yes, we have to forget that. Great societies. are only those which able to maintain there development and upliftment for years. Not like a great leader came, done the development for some years and then gone.

Thats not great society.

i never said i want military rule... the army must be defender of the social system, and only when that system is worth defending... if the social system is backward and perverted, the army must act, in conjunction with the intellectuals.

So what you want, that it dictate civil govt.? Like in Pak?

nevertheless, nasser was a leader whose appeal went beyond egypt... one of my old colleagues was named after him.

Beyond, I dont remember any legacy of Nasser in India. If you want to only consider, Egypt and Syria, then most welcome.

BTW, appeal matters in development?

 

[jamahir]

Yes, we have to forget that. Great societies. are only those which able to maintain there development and upliftment for years. Not like a great leader came, done the development for some years and then gone.

Thats not great society.

ufff...

usa government practically invaded afghanistan in the 80's to do regime-change... if not for that, afghanistan would have continued as a socialist system.

and it would have been greater than other south asian countries.

So what you want, that it dictate civil govt.? Like in Pak?

not dictate but protect... like in venezuela, syria, iraq, libya, east germany, north korea, ussr etc

Beyond, I dont remember any legacy of Nasser in India. If you want to only consider, Egypt and Syria, then most welcome.

my former colleague is from india.

legacies can be not allowed too... i don't remember any president of soviet union being allowed to make speech in india and call for the citizens to look at socialism as replacement to the current indian system.

was fidel castro ever the guest at republic day... or gaddafi??

BTW, appeal matters in development?

it does... what must be demanded is real development... not software companies whose employees are able to buy the latest cell phone and commit suicide a month later because they have been thrown out of job.

real development, coming through looking at real leaders, looks at every aspect of social life, looking to keep citizens away from worry and fear.

 

[kaku1]

ufff...

usa government practically invaded afghanistan in the 80's to do regime-change... if not for that, afghanistan would have continued as a socialist system.

and it would have been greater than other south asian countries.

So, does it matter, what type of utopian society is which not able to protect itself. And become history.

not dictate but protect... like in venezuela, syria, iraq, libya, east germany, north korea, ussr etc

Yeah, like great famine?
Like the usage of chemical weps on its iwn population?

legacies can be not allowed too... i don't remember any president of soviet union being allowed to make speech in india and call for the citizens to look at socialism as replacement to the current indian system.

was fidel castro ever the guest at republic day... or gaddafi??

Why we call dictator as our guest?

it does... what must be demanded is real development... not software companies whose employees are able to buy the latest cell phone and commit suicide a month later because they have been thrown out of job.

real development, coming through looking at real leaders, looks at every aspect of social life, looking to keep citizens away from worry and fear.

Development isnt just like social upliftment or development for a small period of time, like for 20 30 yrs and become history.
That is not utopian society at all.

 

[GodToons]

Heard on social media that Congress has lots of files with details of money laundering by media channels. 10Janpath is using that stick to guide media against Modi govt. I believe BJP needs to create a cell headed by Swamy to fight back against MSM

 

[rubyjackass]

" The Empire strikes back"​

Friends and Fellow posters....


In view of recent coverage of minor events by English media of India, and having a good enough memory to retain most of what I read; I could not help but draw parallels between media built-up leading up to2013 Egyptian coup d'état and current media propaganda in India.


In Egypt, military rule which has became an establishment in Egypt was rooted out in 2011 "Arab spring" giving a body blow to the "establishment". In the election in June, Mohd. Morsi came to power, a figure hated by sections of Egyptian society and military generals, giving a body blow to establishment. Within a few months of his coming to power, there were protests all over Egypt against Energy crisis ,and a hysteria was built up in society regarding persecution of Christians. These protests were funded by an Egyptian coptic billionaire Naguib sawaris, and though they were not greatly successful, they gave a pretext to Egyptian military to do a coup in Egypt.

Naguib Sawiris: the Egyptian tycoon with a sharp political edge - FT.com

Billionaire Naguib Sawiris Says He'll Increase His Investment In Egypt - Forbes

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/w...-intensifies-in-gas-lines.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/w...st-a-campaign-that-undermined-morsi.html?_r=1
This part is something which BJP need to pay attention to

Something for fence sitters
There are very strong parallel between what happened in Egypt to what is happening in India. India was under congress rule for past 56 out of 68 years of Indian Independence and Leftist establishment has ruled the roost for at least 62 years out of those 68. Victory of Modi in last election combined with subsequent victories in successive assembly elections were first serious jolt to Leftist establishment since independence. That "Deep state" especially within media is now striking back using communalism as a plank. They do not root for a military coup in India, yet they could not let Modi succeed as his economic success would mean permanent end of them. I could not help but notice that there was not a single instance of Church vandalism in August-November period when there were no elections in Delhi and neither there has been a single instance of Church vandalism since declaration of Delhi election's result.Curious, Isn't it? When Church vandalism would have benefited AAP/Congress , there was a Church vandalized per week, but no Church vandalism has been there when victim card would not have gained any political mileage. Similar is case with recent Nun rape case. Even though knowing the fact very well that that Law and Order comes under State, Archbishop of North India gave clean chit to Mamata and held Modi responsible for rape. It looks like NDTV and Times of India have decided that even if a Christian get constipated, Modi is to blame.

The reason that leftist media has chose a communal plank to attack government is that actually government is doing pretty well on all other fronts. Economy is growing at a healthy rate, Inflation is down, and government is cracking down on corruption, and rectifying distortions that occurred due to handing over of natural resources for free by Congress government. There is a good chance that if this situation prevails, UPA would not come back to power for a long time thus eroding "Leftist-Lutyens" privileged in India. This has resulted in media campaigns like this:

​

Though this should also be acknowledge that supposed allies/enemies are providing full ammunition to them by making stupid statements. The recent statements of VHP shows their lack of understanding of art of propaganda (They should take a course in it from missionaries). The only good that come out of public proclamations of your intention is your lampooning by your opponent.

But them India is such a large country that there would always be attention-wh0res, Sociopaths, and genuine haters. It is not very difficult to pick out one or two instance to run an incessant propaganda.


@SarthakGanguly @TejasMk3 @magudi @jaatram @Echo_419 @Tridibans @IndoCarib @Prajapati @Soumitra @JanjaWeed @wolfschanzze @Marxist @SitaramVillas @doppelganger @Tshering22 @itachiii @NKVD @Rain Man

I am just a casual observer but many of you are member of RSS/BJP. Is BJP taking any action to shore up its defences?

In my opinion, first course of action would be to put motormouths in their place. Even a middle level manager of any company knows how to interact with media. The current relay race of inflammatory statements to media portend to incompetence and stupidity. But this should also be recognized that deracinated Leftist-English media of this country would never ever support them. They would always find one even or another in some corner of India and parade it as a mascot of "rising communalism". BJP need to prepare for the shit that media would hurl towards them.

This is BS. You do not even have any understanding of why Egypt turned out the way it did. The Christian persecution might be one issue but it was not even on the radar. The main reason for the downfall of Morsi was that he got cocky and tried to shove an Islamic constitution down people's throat disregarding the opposition completely. Apparently his understanding of democracy is that people elect a dictator for every 5 year period. I have no defence for Sisi but Morsi was a straight out idiot. History tolerates bad decisions better than it does idiocy.

Coming to BJP you yourself gave an example of a church attack without any election coming. With your shortterm memory you complained just a sentence prior, that church attacks seem to be happening only before elections. There are many differences between Egypt and India. But one parallel may be right on money. The mandate was awarded by people not to pursue a communal agenda, but a development agenda with freedoms against family fiefdoms. That is why Morsi did not win majority vote and Modi did not bother to rake any communal issue during election.

You are just finding more scapegoats to escape something. May be the truth is not so complicated. May be it is just very simple and straightforward.

 

[doppelganger]

The mandate was awarded by people not to pursue a communal agenda, but a development agenda with freedoms against family fiefdoms.

Only partly true.

As a Hindu, and educated one coming from a liberal educated family, living in a liberal educated social group, I can tell you that what you say above is only partly true.

I can also tell you that even today a very large percentage of Hindu India does not condone violence against anyone, minorities or anybody.

That does not mean that we voted only for development either.

 

[rubyjackass]

Only partly true.

As a Hindu, and educated one coming from a liberal educated family, living in a liberal educated social group, I can tell you that what you say above is only partly true.

I can also tell you that even today a very large percentage of Hindu India does not condone violence against anyone, minorities or anybody.

That does not mean that we voted only for development either.

I did not say you voted for only development. I said the mandate wouldn't have come if any such hidden intentions were spelled out during election.

 

[doppelganger]

I did not say you voted for only development. I said the mandate wouldn't have come if any such hidden intentions were spelled out during election.

There are no hidden intentions. The government is doing what we elected them to do.

The quantum of impact apportioned could be debateable, but no Indian would debate that the BJP won the way they did because :

1) They are seen as a Hindu party first

2) They are seen as part of the larger umbrella, the political arm if you will, of the Sangh, with the RSS as the fountainhead

3) They were led by a man who is seen as a strong no nonsense Hindu

 

[Koovie]

I just said it elsewhere on another thread.

The government and the rising sangh is under attack.

From within and without.

Modi ji should and will stay the course. But he needs help from within his party, and the sangh. Some hardliner morons are not helping our cause.

The rest is mainly fabricated, manipulated.

This will blow over if we all do well economically. That is why the enemies of Hindu India cannot and will not wait. That is the reason for the frenetic spate of events in the past few months. One after another.

They know time is short, and this is the only window they may ever get. Till India is robbed from under their noses. By those to whom it belongs and should belong.

What is "Hindu India"?! or "rising sangh"?

Idiotic rhetoric like this is one of the reasons for the mud throwing that has been going on lately... and will only continue in tearing the nation apart.

 

[doppelganger]

What is "Hindu India"?! or "rising sangh"?

Idiotic rhetoric like this is one of the reasons for the mud throwing that has been going on lately... and will only continue in tearing the nation apart.

Hindu India = that part of India which follws Sanatan Dharma

Rising Sangh = the rise of the Hindu right

 

[Koovie]

Hindu India = that part of India which follws Sanatan Dharma

Rising Sangh = the rise of the Hindu right

Yeah thats what I meant... idiotic rhetoric that is anti development, anti progressive, fueling tension and thus, anti national

 

[doppelganger]

Yeah thats what I meant... idiotic rhetoric that is anti development, anti progressive, fueling tension and thus, anti national

Nothing about either following Sanatan Dharma or being a right leaning (how far can and will differ from person to person) Hindu Sanatan Dharmi can logically equate to being anti development, anti progressive, or anti national.

Yes it is creating tension.

One needs to dig deeper into why it is creating tension. And who it is creating tension for.

 

[rubyjackass]

There are no hidden intentions. The government is doing what we elected them to do.

The quantum of impact apportioned could be debateable, but no Indian would debate that the BJP won the way they did because :

1) They are seen as a Hindu party first

2) They are seen as part of the larger umbrella, the political arm if you will, of the Sangh, with the RSS as the fountainhead

3) They were led by a man who is seen as a strong no nonsense Hindu

1) and 2) had been true for the last half a dozen elections. And Advani was a stronger no nonsense Hindu than anyone else you can show me. Babri was a more gutsy operation than Godhra. He was the PM candidate in 2009 which happened after Mumbai. His rathyatra politics already showed us the maximum BJP can achieve with that agenda.

So how come they did not win any mandate before like this? Its not like BJP before election was a sapling party. They were in government even before MMS became PM for the first time. With all the factors above being same, why did BJP not win earlier the way it did now?

If there were no hidden intentions, and if people elected BJP for the things you mentioned. Why doesn't Modi or atleast BJP spokesperson declare these as main goals in any of their baithaks? Pusy much?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

There are no hidden intentions. The government is doing what we elected them to do.

The quantum of impact apportioned could be debateable, but no Indian would debate that the BJP won the way they did because :

1) They are seen as a Hindu party first

2) They are seen as part of the larger umbrella, the political arm if you will, of the Sangh, with the RSS as the fountainhead

3) They were led by a man who is seen as a strong no nonsense Hindu

No- they won because people thought unlike the congress BJP might bring in a development oriented government that is less corrupt. No one in India is interested in becoming a Hindu Rashtra anytime soon.