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Is Kashmir key to Afghan peace?

anyways. and please, call me doobie, no need for formalities
.

Thanks mate.... :)

Siachen..so your telling me that if Siachen was fair game, Pakistan would sit back and do nothing? (lol) do you realize the strategic importance of the Siachen glacier? Bro, China is already stronger than us and Pakistan is poses a considerable challenge, the last thing we need is for you guys to have a direct land route. Come on now, its only rational. India sabotaged the peace process, bro you remember Kargil? who sabotaged the peace process then?, you think Pakistan is some sort of angel?

No, what i'm trying to say is that it would have been the first step in right direction which we have yet not been able to take.(Siachen) Oh come on... what land route and what significance you are talking about. Just read the book of your Indian chief who planned this operation. His reasons are illusionary and schizophrrenic to say the least. It has zero significance... if you have time, do your own research. If it is demilitarized, there is nothing that Pakistan and China would get out of it, we already have a land route and a good one for that matter viz-a-viz the terrible and inhospitable Siachen which wont allow any land movement at all. Now, the reason why Indian army is stubborn on it is that, there may be public outcry by segments of independent media and most of all public. How can they justify the precious lives lost and the burden caused on the taxpayer for the misadventure if they have to leave it in the end. I'm sorry but its the harsh reality that it is the Indian army which is the part of the problem because of certain hawks. Have you forgotten the incident where one of your general was sacked from his command during the 2002 standoff because he almost brought both countries to the brink of war by his overly aggressive actions without the political governments approval.
Pakistan is no angel but when there was serious opportunity to undo the ignonimous past, we lost it.


my bad if my posts were repetitive, I think two different people said similar things so I ended up saying the same thing twice. But I believe my point is still valid, You have to take India's strategic concerns into consideration because if you don't than we're going to have to live with the status quo for another 60 years. and that doesn't mean we have to disregard all of Pakistan's concerns, its going to be a compromise so you have to care about what the other guy (both Ind and Pak) will or will not allow. simple.

Agreed on that account.

I don't know if the PA has a vested interest in keeping the Kashmir conflict alive or not, what I do know is the conflict has gone on for long enough and we need to come up with some kind of solution, add another 25-30 years to that and you might see the mutual distrust vaporize.

When we say Pakistan wants peace, it in my opinion includes every segment of the society. :cheers:
 
Nice job, gents. You'll lead the negotiating teams of your respective nations here. While America's not a good choice, I'd see the need for a third party-one intimately aware of the issues and both nations with even it's own role to play- the PRC.

There's a need for a tri-lateral accord about the Himalayas among the aforementioned nations.
 
Yup, that is why you obviously prefer if its only India that gets to do all the 'squashing' it wants throught the status quo.

If Kashmiris manage to get over their fundamentalist tendencies, they'll realize that they are far better off as a part of the Indian union.
 
If Kashmiris manage to get over their fundamentalist tendencies, they'll realize that they are far better off as a part of the Indian union.

wow.... If Kashmiris have been radicalized or have become fundamentalists under "secular" India, then you better be prepared for WOT of your own. Second, stop blaming Pakistan for such elements as you accept that your own harsh rule has lead to their radicalization. Third, stop this mantra of terming every dissident as fundamentalist. fourth, accept that you are a hindu republic based on a fundamentalist ideology more polluted than any other which has lead to this change of heart and finally, stop teaching people what is their interest because in democracies (which you claim yourself to be largest) people are allowed to make their own choices. :enjoy:
 
in democracies (which you claim yourself to be largest) people are allowed to make their own choices. :enjoy:

Wrong. In democracies, people are allowed to make certain specific choices - one of those specific choices is their choice of political party. They are also allowed to freely criticize the current government.

However, they are not allowed the option of becoming a traitor to the country by demanding secession.
 
Wrong. In democracies, people are allowed to make certain specific choices - one of those specific choices is their choice of political party. They are also allowed to freely criticize the current government.

However, they are not allowed the option of becoming a traitor to the country by demanding secession.

Dear, every problem has its context. Kashmir problem seen in its context would remind you of a pledge by none other than the beloved prime minister of your country made infront of the comity of nations that Kashmiris would be given the right to decide. I write this with my preemptive remark that you will have reasons of your own to disagree but why Kosovo got independence being the most recent addition and why so many other domocracies let their break away regions to get independence. One can't but lament the ambivalence of intrl community on this issue.
 
If Kashmiris manage to get over their fundamentalist tendencies, they'll realize that they are far better off as a part of the Indian union.

The Kashmiris were not 'fundamentalists' before, they saw no reason to help us liberate them in 1965...but decades of political exploitation, unrepresentation and military suppression obviously helped change their minds.

P.S. Because they hate India, doesn't mean they are fundamentalists, just self-respecting.
 
The Kashmiris were not 'fundamentalists' before, they saw no reason to help us liberate them in 1965...but decades of political exploitation, unrepresentation and military suppression obviously helped change their minds.

P.S. Because they hate India, doesn't mean they are fundamentalists, just self-respecting.

Decades of Fundamentalist brainwashing and cross-border terror by Pakistan financed and trained militants is what led to current situation.
 
LOL, surely you give us too much credit, even Indian leaders have acknowledged that the insurgency and its causes are almost completely a domestic phenomena. Don’t be delusional, it’s not the Pakistan Army that has stationed 500 thousand ill disciplined soldiers down the throats of these people for half a century. Besides a couple of guys sneaking across the border can hardly be as momentous in shaping the mind frame of a 100 villagers as compared to 50 violent foreign soldiers who’ve been walking all over them for an entire generation.

Most impartial observe acknowledge that the contribution from the Pakistani side of the LoC hardly amounts to 3 to 5 percent of the insurgency in Occupied Kashmir. The violence there is self-sustaining.
 
LOL, surely you give us too much credit, even Indian leaders have acknowledged that the insurgency and its causes are almost completely a domestic phenomena. Don’t be delusional, it’s not the Pakistan Army that has stationed 500 thousand ill disciplined soldiers down the throats of these people for half a century. Besides a couple of guys sneaking across the border can hardly be as momentous in shaping the mind frame of a 100 villagers as compared to 50 violent foreign soldiers who’ve been walking all over them for an entire generation.

Most impartial observe acknowledge that the contribution from the Pakistani side of the LoC hardly amounts to 3 to 5 percent of the insurgency in Occupied Kashmir. The violence there is self-sustaining.

Well, then lets just leave it at that. This topic has been discussed far too often by me.
 
NEW DELHI; and ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN - As part of his push to find new solutions to the war in Afghanistan, President-elect Barack Obama is considering a new diplomatic push on Kashmir, reversing eight years of American silence on the issue.

Mr. Obama has argued that Pakistan will not fully commit to fighting the insurgency it shares with Afghanistan until it sheds historic insecurities toward India. Talks about Kashmir, the central point of contention between the two nuclear rivals, are among the "critical tasks for the next administration," Obama said in an interview last month with Time magazine.

It is a strategy that worries Indians, who suggest the Pakistani Army is blackmailing Obama to support its claims. Yet security analysts say the Afghan insurgency has roots in the power struggle between India and Pakistan and cannot be solved without a regional approach.

"It will be very hard to put Afghanistan on a long-term positive path without alleviating some of the Indo-Pakistan tensions," says Xenia Dormandy of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.

Such ideas would appear to fit well with the doctrines of Gen. David Petraeus, who oversaw a significant improvement in law and order in Iraq. He is now the commander of American forces in the entire region, which includes Afghanistan.

General Petraeus has been an open advocate of regional diplomacy as a key counterinsurgency tactic. On Oct. 15, he told a round table of Washington Post reporters that in seeking solutions to Afghanistan, "there may be opportunities with respect to India."

The goal would be to build a level of trust between India and Pakistan, freeing Pakistan from its historic fear of India, with which it has fought three wars. The surest way to do this, Obama has said, is to find a solution to Kashmir – the state split between each but claimed in full by both.

"We should try to resolve the Kashmir crisis so that [Pakistan] can stay focused – not on India, but on the situation with those militants," he told MSNBC on Oct. 31.

Obama went further in the Time interview, mentioning he has spoken with former President Bill Clinton about becoming a special envoy to the region – a comment that has been front-page news in India and Pakistan.

Nothing could be more damaging to American interests in the region, says Raja Mohan, a member of India's National Security Advisory Board. He claims Indo-Pakistan relations are better than they have ever been, citing the recent opening of trade between Pakistan - and-Indian-controlled Kashmir as something that would have been unthinkable in the past.

Moreover, he suggests India and Pakistan have behind the scenes made significant progress on the issue of Kashmir, to the point that the two nations have a tentative road map for how to resolve the crisis. It was scuppered only by the collapse of former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's regime in August.

Bush steered clear of Kashmir

The progress was partly the result of the Bush administration's decision to steer clear of Kashmir, says Mr. Mohan. Entering the fray now would only disrupt the delicate balance, making it appear as if the US was merely trying to placate Pakistan in return for its support in the war against terror.

In such a case, Mohan says, India might have a hard time winning concessions for a fair deal: "So long as the Pakistani Army thinks that the Americans are on their side, they're not going to deal with India."

Both Obama and his top South Asia adviser, Bruce Riedel, have spoken of the need to be discreet. In a 2007 teleconference for the journal Foreign Affairs, Mr. Riedel said: "I would urge the administration to seize the opportunity to quietly, but forcefully, push for a resolution there."

In the interview he called Kashmir "the itch that has driven Pakistan towards supporting terrorism for the last 20 years." Indeed, many experts say the enmity – for which Kashmir is the most potent symbol – has shaped security in the region, including Afghanistan.

Rivalry plays out in Afghanistan

For years, the mutual mistrust has led India and Pakistan to play their own version of the Great Game in Afghanistan. India has consistently been Afghanistan's main ally in the region. But Pakistan sees Afghanistan as its strategic backyard, which under no circumstances can be yielded to Indian influence.

Fears are stoked by the memories of 1971, when the Indian Army helped Bengalis secede from Pakistan to form Bangladesh. With Afghanistan historically claiming a significant chunk of Pakistan as its own, Pakistanis worry that an Indian-backed Afghanistan could dismember Pakistan further.

"Pakistan is the only country in South Asia that stands between India's complete hegemony in this region," says Fahmida Ashraf, an analyst at the Institute for Strategic Studies in Islamabad, a thinktank funded by the Pakistan government.

Repeatedly, Pakistan's Army has acted to prevent this from happening. It has done this by cultivating networks of militants as a proxy army. In Afghanistan, the Pakistan-backed mujahideen chased out the Soviet Union, India's ally. Then the Pakistan-backed Taliban took control of the country, preventing it from falling into the hands of pro-India Northern Alliance warlords.

This proxy war continues. India has invested $750 million and pledged $450 million more to the government of President Hamid Karzai, who is strongly pro-India. India is Afghanistan's largest trade partner. And it has taken the provocative step of opening consulates in two cities sitting on the border with Pakistan – Jalalabad and Kandahar.

Pakistan claims Indian intelligence agencies are using these consulates as bases, though it has never made this evidence public. Generally speaking, the allegations are that India is funding separatist militants in the Pakistani province of Balochistan.

"India wants to destabilize [Pakistan's tribal areas] and Balochistan," said Rahman Malik, a Pakistani government security adviser during a trip to Washington.

Analysts say this might be true, but only to a small degree. Militants "might be getting some support from India, but it's not anywhere near what the Pakistanis like to suggest," says Marvin Weinbaum, an analyst at the Middle East Institute in Washington.

Privately, a Pakistani diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity agrees. India's involvement in the unrest along Pakistan's western front "might be no more than 5 percent of all the trouble out there."

But publicly, Pakistan "is basing its Afghan and Indian policy on its perception," says Mr. Weinbaum.

In July, militants struck the Indian Embassy in Kabul with a bomb blast that killed 41 people. American intelligence agencies have said they have evidence that Pakistan's intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate, was involved.

"Even today, the Pakistani military sees India as the threat," says Ms. Dormandy, of Harvard. "Until that attitude changes, you're not going to see Pakistan step back from its historically strong use of militant assets to affect foreign policy."

There are signs that this attitude is beginning to change. Pakistan is now fighting many of the militants it once sheltered in Bajaur and Swat in northern Pakistan. Obama's intent would be to accelerate this process and send a clear message to Pakistan.

"Why do you want to keep on being bogged down with [India and Kashmir], particularly at a time where the biggest threat now is coming from the Afghan border?" he told Time. "I think there is a moment where potentially we could get their attention."

Is Kashmir key to Afghan peace? | csmonitor.com
 
No, it is not.

Kashmir is a separate issue and Afghanistan totally separate. The only thing in common is that Pakistan is involved in both.

For India the major interest in Afghanistan would be that it does not return to the bad old days of Taliban when terror against us flourished there.

I am not sure what interest Afghanistan as a country has in Kashmir, pretty much close to zero I guess.

Trying to mingle both issues would mean never resolving even one. They are separate issues with different players needing separate resolutions.
 
yes...Afghanistan and Kashmir both are totally different things....

But there are 2 similarities -

1) Pakistan is involved in both the cases.
2) Both are badly hit by terrorism.


Both the issues must be solved internally...
Mix them and you will mess them ...
And only America will get profit from it..
 
yes...Afghanistan and Kashmir both are totally different things....

But there are 2 similarities -

1) Pakistan is involved in both the cases.
2) Both are badly hit by terrorism.


Both the issues must be solved internally...
Mix them and you will mess them ...
And only America will get profit from it..

India is terrorist state to invade Kashmir!
 

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