Is China even one country for her "Citizens"?

[BringHarmony]

We are done here, I prefer to talk with yankees directly,it is no meaning to talk with the men who is not in charge!

Its more of a question of if 'Yankees' are interested in talking to you directly. Anyways, Have a nice fluffing day!

When I was still living in Hong Kong back in late 1990s, China have "border post" between different area inside China, you cannot get from where my mother's village in Dongguan and into Shenzhen, and you also have all sort of border post to control people from going from 1 province to another.

Most of these post are gone now, but the Hokou (Not Hook-You, i guess that is what you meant) still in place, where you are to declare where you are born in respect to China. Back in the days that is not much of a deal, if you know the right people and you have money, this is nothing, I mean you can add your name in it even if you weren't born in China. But today, its very hard, and you also have a national ID card system which the peace officer can instantly check whether or not you belong there.

Hokou system is a lot like the Swiss nationality system, where you bases yourself which part of Switzerland you were from instead of being a Citizens of Switzerland. But of course, the system is immensely different because even if you come from differnt part of Switzerland (Known as Canton) you have the same right essentially with another other Swiss and you can move around the area, while in China, you need to apply leave to exit your own province.

Thanks for a to-the-point explanation. Will you mind answering few more questions?

Does Hokou System predate China's meteoric economic rise? I am trying to establish the cause and effect relationship of Hokou and claim that it helps to lower burden of social-security in China.

How do modern Chinese feel about Hokou System? In the sense, just in this forum someone was really ecstatic that you need to be a Chinese person < 40 years old and a Bachelor Degree to move your Hokou easily. I mean this reminds me of Australian PR system. Why will I seek PR in my own country? How do Chinese feel about it?

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

When I was still living in Hong Kong back in late 1990s, China have "border post" between different area inside China, you cannot get from where my mother's village in Dongguan and into Shenzhen, and you also have all sort of border post to control people from going from 1 province to another.

Most of these post are gone now, but the Hokou (Not Hook-You, i guess that is what you meant) still in place, where you are to declare where you are born in respect to China. Back in the days that is not much of a deal, if you know the right people and you have money, this is nothing, I mean you can add your name in it even if you weren't born in China. But today, its very hard, and you also have a national ID card system which the peace officer can instantly check whether or not you belong there.

Hokou system is a lot like the Swiss nationality system, where you bases yourself which part of Switzerland you were from instead of being a Citizens of Switzerland. But of course, the system is immensely different because even if you come from differnt part of Switzerland (Known as Canton) you have the same right essentially with another other Swiss and you can move around the area, while in China, you need to apply leave to exit your own province.

1）Basically fair,but Hukou is evovled itself as well,I have no prob at all when i study in Shanghai and when i work in Zhejiang and now in Jiangsu.
You Do not need to apply leave to exit your own province but when a household police officer come to visit you where you live ,you need to register your infos,but you could still refuse,well,this behaviour will make the policeman keep an eye on you though.Just like on the street, if you refuse to show your ID card to the police, it usually causes a lot of trouble.

The current Chinese hukou is mainly used to prevent a large influx of people into an area, which leads to the financial capacity of a region unable to support various welfare systems in the region.

2）To be honest, if China fully liberalizes its hukou, I also want to move my hukou to Shanghai and become a permanent resident of Shanghai. Because Shanghai’s fiscal revenue is very high, the social welfare of the corresponding Shanghai natives is also very high. Shanghai Human Development Index Close to 0.9 (belonging to a very very high human development index), but if every Chinese wants to join the Shanghai hukou, Shanghai has only two choices: 1) reduce the social welfare of all Shanghainese to a very low level, 2) financial collapse！！

The third option is to limit population inflows, but not forbidden. As long as you have a Ph.D. or work in Shanghai for a certain year, you can still get a Shanghai hukou.

 

[BringHarmony]

2）To be honest, if China fully liberalizes its hukou, I also want to move my hukou to Shanghai and become a permanent resident of Shanghai. Because Shanghai’s fiscal revenue is very high, the social welfare of the corresponding Shanghai natives is also very high. Shanghai Human Development Index Close to 0.9 (belonging to a very very high human development index), but if every Chinese wants to join the Shanghai hukou, Shanghai has only two choices: 1) reduce the social welfare of all Shanghainese to a very low level, 2) financial collapse！！

Thats roughly the same logic I hear from anti-immigrant folks all over the world. Interestingly it makes the question very apt : Is China even One China for her own Citizens?

Whats more puzzling is that "Real Chinese (TM)" like you are happy about it!

 

[Dalai Lama]

Isn't Canada basically a Chinese province these days?

 

[BringHarmony]

So you forgot your Hindi or mother tongue already, and yes the white master language is still supreme in India.
The Chinese system is superior to your motherland where you can have a look at the Mumbai slums.
There have to be a system in a country with a large population to prevent a sudden migration of tens of millions to any city within the country.

That's why you or your parents ran away to Canada.
Bring your DisHarmony and Trolling elsewhere.
.

Stick to the topic please!

 

[BringHarmony]

Isn't Canada basically a Chinese province these days?

Chinese believe that. Though I see more Punjabis being more active in our politics. Most Chinese here like to associate with their non-mainland identity. Usually they call themselves Hong-Konger or simply Canadian. Heck Vancouver has a nick name: Hongcouver. Do not confuse HongKong folks and Mainland folks. They don't like it.

 

[Figaro]

Greetings And Over 9000 Years of Xi Rule!

I was having a conversation with our resident Densha-Otaku (not to be confused with Densha-Otoko!) @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA about how a guy with Bachelors Degree can get "Permanent Residence" of a certain Province.

He tutored me about China's great Hook-You system and how it keeps their cities clean for Foreigners and Party leadership alike. Never mind the pesky little poor labourers who have to live in rural areas. You can't see them from your high rise. And thats a good thing (TM)

So it makes me think, how come Chinese consider their "political entity" called People's Republic of China as a single Country of which they are citizens while in reality they only have a Chinese passport and they are actually "hooked-you" a particular province?

I mean the way our resident Train-Enthusiast portrayed was such that it is considered a news that some CHINESE dude can now MOVE and LIVE and GET SOCIAL BENEFITS of living in a province WITHIN CHINA!

The closest this comes to something that I know is Quebec, but then Quebec has threatened us enough times about separating from "Canadian Mainland". I am sure "One China" has a better explanation.

I thought this residence thing come as a natural right, right? Can some great mind from Panda-Land elucidate that how come Chinese reconcile this entire mess with their one china image? I mean are you guy Chinese or Hooked-You Yunnanese.


@Hamartia Antidote @jhungary

Oh and I didn't utter the T-word. Or H-Word.

The Hukou System has flaws. That is not in doubt. But I can assure you China is a country ... just like the United States or Canada. It is run by a unitary government by the name of the Communist Party of China. Simple. Please don't spread ignorance about a subject you don't understand. If you want to understand how the Hukou system works, I suggest you search up vlogs of American expats in China. They are more than clear in their explanations.

PS "Hukou" not "Hook-you"

 

[BringHarmony]

Don't indulge in too many FAKE Mensa IQ test.
You couldn't even get my take on why the Chinese system is necessary in my 5 sentence post.
.

Stay consistent and coherent and stick to the topic please.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Chinese believe that. Though I see more Punjabis being more active in our politics. Most Chinese here like to associate with their non-mainland identity. Usually they call themselves Hong-Konger or simply Canadian. Heck Vancouver has a nick name: Hongcouver. Do not confuse HongKong folks and Mainland folks. They don't like it.

Lol, I'm well aware of that having lived there. Richmond is totally Chinese. At least Hong Kongs tip when they eat out.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Thats roughly the same logic I hear from anti-immigrant folks all over the world. Interestingly it makes the question very apt : Is China even One China for her own Citizens?

Whats more puzzling is that "Real Chinese (TM)" like you are happy about it!

Thats roughly the same logic I hear from anti-immigrant folks all over the world. Interestingly it makes the question very apt : Is China even One China for her own Citizens?

Whats more puzzling is that "Real Chinese (TM)" like you are happy about it!

Not puzzling but be realistic！Democracy and freedom are good but the hard is to get them right with enough economical development!
Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Mongolia, (the fastest growing time in Korea is the time of dictatorship，After the rapid development of the Koreans under the dictatorship, the Koreans gained their status as advanced country with their innovative spirit and dedication to the country same as China Taiwan), Myanmar, India and Pakistan (Pakistan is China's brother), Tajikistan and other countries bordering China are behind China because : They are unable to withstand foreign pressures and adopt a political system that does not apply to them.
Japan's development is attributed to the Japanese learning strong (including the aggressiveness during the learning strong) and the Japanese craftsmanship.

According to historical experience, all developed countries and regions in East Asia: Japan, South Korea and Singapore, and China Taiwan have adopted dictatorial systems to achieve rapid economic development.
China is on the right way！

 

[Figaro]

Greetings And Over 9000 Years of Xi Rule!

Are you trying to create a serious conversation or are you just here to troll?

 

[BringHarmony]

The Hukou System has flaws. That is not in doubt. But I can assure you China is a country ... just like the United States or Canada. It is run by a unitary government by the name of the Communist Party of China. Simple. Please don't spread ignorance about a subject you don't understand.

Thanks for your post. I will appreciate if you include more arguments and points than mere assurances. BTW, do you expect a foreigner to be deeply aware about a political system in a foreign land or be un-aware of it?

I will like if you can elucidate how Hukou System affected your life or its decisions. What were the positive parts? What were the negative experiences?

To me it seems that it is a system to Ghettoize a country into multiple colonies.

Are you trying to create a serious conversation or are you just here to troll?

Isn't thats how all posts on PDF begin? Serious but not taking themselves seriously?

Not puzzling but be realistic！Democracy and freedom are good but the hard is to get them right with enough economical development!
Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Mongolia, (the fastest growing time in Korea is the time of dictatorship，After the rapid development of the Koreans under the dictatorship, the Koreans gained their status as advanced country with their innovative spirit and dedication to the country same as China Taiwan), Myanmar, India and Pakistan (Pakistan is China's brother), Tajikistan and other countries bordering China are behind China because : They are unable to withstand foreign pressures and adopt a political system that does not apply to them.
Japan's development is attributed to the Japanese learning strong (including the aggressiveness of the learning strong) and the Japanese craftsmanship.

According to historical experience, all developed countries and regions in East Asia: Japan, South Korea and Singapore, and China Taiwan have adopted dictatorial systems to achieve rapid economic development.

Lemme ask once again: Does this "System" pre-dates China's meteoric economic rise that started in late 1970s due to Deng Xiaopeng's policies? Or did it come after that?

 

[jhungary]

Its more of a question of if 'Yankees' are interested in talking to you directly. Anyways, Have a nice fluffing day!


Thanks for a to-the-point explanation. Will you mind answering few more questions?

Does Hokou System predate China's meteoric economic rise? I am trying to establish the cause and effect relationship of Hokou and claim that it helps to lower burden of social-security in China.

How do modern Chinese feel about Hokou System? In the sense, just in this forum someone was really ecstatic that you need to be a Chinese person < 40 years old and a Bachelor Degree to move your Hokou easily. I mean this reminds me of Australian PR system. Why will I seek PR in my own country? How do Chinese feel about it?

First of all, I don't know how to move "Hokou" I didn't bother doing that, in fact, China have change so much I probably cannot tell you the exact address of my home in China (I can show you where it is tho) so there are no point talking about how to change it.

Hokou system predate the economic development (I have my name added into the Hokou system in 1980s so you do the maths there) And it was basically a tool for human flow control when I was added, so you are not going to move around as you should and stay at one place for the rest of your life, and in the early stage, it was used to shield Chinese people from the "Corrupted" neighbour (ie Hong Kong and Macau) where basically you can get everything there, and also, at least this is true for Lo Wu border, the border system within Shenzhen (like the 1st and 2nd line checkpoint) is because of the British request so they can stop illegal Chinese immigrant to move from Mainland China to Hong Kong in the early 60s and late 70s.

Problem with Hokou system now is that people are pinned in the same space, and it cannot move freely unless you are "approved" by other states, well, you can call them lack of federal governing, or some will call it limiting the human flow. I mean what if, a seasonal worker in poor western Chinese province found out how glory Shanghai or Beijing is? It would create a riot over. This way this is hard to govern a country like that with such imbalance between province. So you either not letting these people move or once they move, not letting them move back.

Also, it wouldn't be wise to flood the Tier 1 cities with seasonal immigrant, I mean, those aren't really big city, but with a high population density.

And its PR system is nothing like the Australian PR system. If I get a PR in Australia, I can live anywhere I want in Australia. There are no such things as I need to live in a certain town in Australia once I was granted a Permanent Residence, unless you are a refugee and gain PPR via Protective Visas

 

[BringHarmony]

And its PR system is nothing like the Australian PR system. If I get a PR in Australia, I can live anywhere I want in Australia. There are no such things as I need to live in a certain town in Australia once I was granted a Permanent Residence, unless you are a refugee and gain PPR via Protective Visas

There are conditional PRs as you mentioned. But the point was, why a citizen should need a PR in his own country.

Anyways, you have given me a lot of interesting points. Thanks for your post!

 

[jhungary]

1）Basically fair,but Hukou is evovled itself as well,I have no prob at all when i study in Shanghai and when i work in Zhejiang and now in Jiangsu.
You Do not need to apply leave to exit your own province but when a household police officer come to visit you where you live ,you need to register your infos,but you could still refuse,well,this behaviour will make the policeman keep an eye on you though.Just like on the street, if you refuse to show your ID card to the police, it usually causes a lot of trouble.

The current Chinese hukou is mainly used to prevent a large influx of people into an area, which leads to the financial capacity of a region unable to support various welfare systems in the region.

That is the basis of population control. usually it works when you live in Different countries such as in the EU, I don't need to register my present in EU if I live in my country (Such as the UK) I have my citizenship with, but I need to register myself with authority if I were to live in EU outside my country (Such as Sweden).

2）To be honest, if China fully liberalizes its hukou, I also want to move my hukou to Shanghai and become a permanent resident of Shanghai. Because Shanghai’s fiscal revenue is very high, the social welfare of the corresponding Shanghai natives is also very high. Shanghai Human Development Index Close to 0.9 (belonging to a very very high human development index), but if every Chinese wants to join the Shanghai hukou, Shanghai has only two choices: 1) reduce the social welfare of all Shanghainese to a very low level, 2) financial collapse！！

The third option is to limit population inflows, but not forbidden. As long as you have a Ph.D. or work in Shanghai for a certain year, you can still get a Shanghai hukou.

There are 4th option, cancel the Hokou system and let the Central Government deal with the issue that entailed. Which is what it should have been. You are talking about using a States Resource to cover a National Issue. It can never be done.

There are conditional PRs as you mentioned. But the point was, why a citizen should need a PR in his own country.

Anyways, you have given me a lot of interesting points. Thanks for your post!

Well, Refugee visa is issued by which state can settle you in, that is because everything you have with a Protective Visa is provided by the states and you must "Land" at that state to gain those resource (Such as financial support, living arrangement and so on), but that is not a must, I mean, you just wasted the resources that was given to you if you choose not to live in that states.