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Is China Communist? Pop Quiz of Modern China 101

"China just like other countries still do things based on its self interests"

"First, China doesn't export Revolution; second, China doesn't export hunger and poverty; third, China doesn't come and cause you headaches, what more to be said?"

May be some one can explain me what does these two mean.

All I try to say was very simple Like any other country China harms interest of civilians in other countries.From selling weapons to African countries to supporting genocide.

btw about my age , same as yours :)
 
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"China just like other countries still do things based on its self interests"

"First, China doesn't export Revolution; second, China doesn't export hunger and poverty; third, China doesn't come and cause you headaches, what more to be said?"

May be some one can explain me what does these two mean.
btw about my age , same as yours :)

Alright, it means China's self interests is not in exporting Revolution, exporting hunger and poverty and causing others headaches. Is that clear now? That still doesn't mean China don't have any self interests.

By your own logic, exporting Revolution, exporting hunger and poverty and causing others headaches are the only self interests one can have, or at least they are the only ones China has.
 
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Alright, it means China's self interests is not in exporting Revolution, exporting hunger and poverty and causing others headaches. Is that clear now?

Sorry I made a mistake last time, you are very much younger than me :) I am sure you know what are those real "self interests" mean .I don't have to list.But if you still need I can give you a lot from neutral sources.
 
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Sorry I made a mistake last time, you are very much younger than me :) I am sure you know what are those real "self interests" mean .I don't have to list.But if you still need I can give you a lot from neutral sources.

I am constantly amazed by how you deduct your logics. Unlike some other countries, one does not have to start a war or invade another country to gain access to neutral resources. Have you heard of a term called trade?

"A" can secure anything for its needs by trading with "B" that wants to trade for something that "A" has a competitive advantages of.
 
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No you are wrong . Natural resources cannot be obtained by simple "trade" . Do you think American companies can own Russian Oil fields ?
 
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No you are wrong . Natural resources cannot be obtained by simple "trade" . Do you think American companies can own Russian Oil fields ?

There is also something called diplomacy. Again unlike some other countries, one does not have to get rid of uncooperative regime and install a new one that favour them to achieve this. You think China is helping African countries to develop their infrastructures, economy and social structures by sending many people and money out of charities? Actually I know there are couple oil fields in South America up for sale, are you interested?
 
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There is also something called diplomacy. Again unlike some other countries, one does not have to get rid of uncooperative regime and install a new one that favour them to achieve this. You think China is helping African countries to develop their infrastructures, economy and social structures by sending many people and money out of charities?

No you are wrong China is Arming African countries and USA did not engage in war with USSR . USA did not engage in war with UAE or other middle east countries. Do you ignore China funding corrupted African rulers ?
 
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No you are wrong China is Arming African countries and USA did not engage in war with USSR.
How many countries are US arming right now? Right, they call it cold war just for fun. They did not give weapon away for free you know. Do you know how many private black market arms dealer US employs to sell arms to those US doesn't want it to be seem doing in public? Have you seen Lord of War? Even though it is a movie, it is based on a true story.
Yuri Orlov: The reason I'll be released is the same reason you think I'll be convicted. I *do* rub shoulders with some of the most vile, sadistic men calling themselves leaders today. But some of these men are the enemies of *your* enemies. And while the biggest arms dealer in the world is your boss - the President of the United States, who ships more merchandise in a day than I do in a year - sometimes it's embarrassing to have his fingerprints on the guns. Sometimes he needs a freelancer like me to supply forces he can't be seen supplying. So. You call me evil, but unfortunately for you, I'm a necessary evil.

USA did not engage in war with UAE or other middle east countries.

:rofl: You want to check your history again?

Do you ignore China funding corrupted African rulers ?
If by funding you meant trading and engaging, then yes I admit they do. Friendly government is a friendly government no matter how corrupted they are. This is how international politics play out, and it is not pretty either. Don't claim moral high ground for yourself.
 
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1. Check the previous posts or spend 2/3 month in China, if you still believe that, you are no better than Lou Doubbs
2. False, China is no worse than US on military transparency
3. US has the largest the Nuclear Arsenal (a thousand time larger than China) and so far is still the only country in the world that actually use it during a war
4. False, list the number, name and year all the Chinese spy being caught and all the US spy being caught, do a compare before you make false statement here
5. Chinese Military spent/cap is far behind countries like Japan, India, Korean...

"Other American can probably add more to this list"
I won't be surprised for that, just like how they add the story of Jessica Lynch fighting to death to save her partner and how US intelligence identified WMD from satellite pictures
Jessica Lynch? You are comparing the exaggerations of a few soldiers to China's misguided adoption of a bloody ideology and one that set China back at least fifty years of progress?

I highly recommend Jasper Becker's book, Hungry Ghosts, for anyone who is interested in seeing how power hungry leaders could be, even when their own people must resort to cannibalism to survive.

Amazon.com: Hungry Ghosts: Mao's Secret Famine: Jasper Becker: Books

Children were afraid to go to sleep because their parents might kill one child to feed the rest of the family. Everywhere communism was applied, famine followed. In my own country, Viet Nam, when Mao insisted that China's brand of land reform imposed, famine resulted. Communist 'economies' produced nothing but crap, the communist leaders knew it but in order to survive they had to foist their crap upon each other's citizenry while they import superior foreign goods to enjoy.
 
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If by funding you meant trading and engaging, then yes I admit they do. Friendly government is a friendly government no matter how corrupted they are. This is how international politics play out, and it is not pretty either. Don't claim moral high ground for yourself.

Victims of this "political play out" are civilians and its going further increase the hatred against China.

Donno then why you scrapped

"First, China doesn't export Revolution; second, China doesn't export hunger and poverty; third, China doesn't come and cause you headaches, what more to be said?"

like this, If you want to know how people suffer from this google for "China Arming African countries".

I could not understand your point and get a feeling we both say the same thing but could not understand why you disagree and every single response I could see some teasing words from you :smitten: . So I stop with this in this thread :cheers: .
 
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Victims of this "political play out" are civilians and its going further increase the hatred against China.

Donno then why you scrapped

"First, China doesn't export Revolution; second, China doesn't export hunger and poverty; third, China doesn't come and cause you headaches, what more to be said?"

like this, If you want to know how people suffer from this google for "China Arming African countries".

I could not understand your point and get a feeling we both say the same thing but could not understand why you disagree and every single response I could see some teasing words from you :smitten: . So I stop with this in this thread :cheers: .

You are more misinformed than I thought, maybe this survey will set you straight.
How the World Sees China
Global Unease With Major World Powers

This survey is from ordinary citizens, and not governments.

One thing about conflicts in Africa is this
Yuri Orlov: Every faction in Africa calls themselves by these noble names - Liberation this, Patriotic that, Democratic Republic of something-or-other... I guess they can't own up to what they usually are: a federation of worse oppressors than the last bunch of oppressors. Often, the most barbaric atrocities occur when both combatants proclaim themselves freedom-fighters.

So sometimes it might be doing a favour for its people when a corrupted government is in power and stable in Africa.
 
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Jessica Lynch? You are comparing the exaggerations of a few soldiers to China's misguided adoption of a bloody ideology and one that set China back at least fifty years of progress?

I highly recommend Jasper Becker's book, Hungry Ghosts, for anyone who is interested in seeing how power hungry leaders could be, even when their own people must resort to cannibalism to survive.

Amazon.com: Hungry Ghosts: Mao's Secret Famine: Jasper Becker: Books

Children were afraid to go to sleep because their parents might kill one child to feed the rest of the family. Everywhere communism was applied, famine followed. In my own country, Viet Nam, when Mao insisted that China's brand of land reform imposed, famine resulted. Communist 'economies' produced nothing but crap, the communist leaders knew it but in order to survive they had to foist their crap upon each other's citizenry while they import superior foreign goods to enjoy.
Here is also something you should read.

WORLD VIEW
Fareed Zakaria
China Shouldn’t Be Inscrutable

To say that this new China is the same as the old is to be utterly ignorant or ideological—perhaps both.



With the Beijing Olympics starting at the end of this week, you might think this would be an occasion for serious analysis and reflection about China—how to understand the country and its changing society, how to handle the regime. Instead, we've mostly heard a familiar recitation of clichés. Conservatives rail against a "rising autocracy" and exaggerate China's military strength. Republican Sen. Sam Brownback went to Beijing and discovered—surprise!—that the Chinese government engaged in espionage. He fumed to CNN that the authorities could "listen to anybody and everybody and their communications and their recordings." One month earlier the senator had enthusiastically voted for the FISA Amendments Act, which allows the U.S. government to do pretty much the same thing.

China bashing is not just a right-wing phenomenon. The New Republic, mostly left of center, ran a cover story last month with the headline, MEET THE NEW CHINA (SAME AS THE OLD). Inside, the magazine thundered that "our ultimate solidarity" should lie not with the "odious government" in Beijing but "the billion long-suffering men and women of the world's largest dictatorship."


Except that Chinese people (who, by the way, number 1.3 billion, not 1 billion) seem to disagree. About the same time as The New Republic hit the stands, the Pew Research Center released the findings of its 2008 Global Attitudes Survey. Of the 24 countries surveyed, the Chinese people expressed the highest level of support for the direction in which their country was heading, 86 percent. Nearly two out of three said that the Beijing government was doing a good job on issues that mattered to them. The survey questioned more than 3,212 Chinese, face to face, in 16 dialects across the country. And while Chinese might not always speak freely to pollsters, several indications suggest that these numbers express something real. Such polls have been done for years and the numbers approving of the Chinese government have risen as the economy has grown (which should be expected). Those polled did complain about corruption, environmental degradation and inflation. And these attitudes—general approval of the country's direction coupled with many specific criticisms—are also the ones reported by most scholars and journalists who have traveled in China.

China is a complicated country. It has a closed political system but an open economy and an increasingly vibrant society. It is building up weapons systems at a fast clip, yet is not directly competing against American military power. It has been helpful in the negotiations with North Korea but callous in shielding Robert Mugabe and the Sudanese regime. Capturing these realities is difficult, but still we have to try. To say that this new China is the same as the old (meaning Mao's totalitarian state) is to be ignorant or ideological, or both. It is not an accident that many ferocious China bashers have rarely visited the country.

This ignorance of today's China has serious policy consequences. We don't understand how the country works. We don't know what to make of the views of the Chinese people ("our true allies" The New Republic tells us), who are more aggressive than their government on many issues, including Taiwan and Tibet, and who often seem more anti-American. A recent essay in The New Yorker by Evan Osnos brilliantly captures the complexity of the rise of nationalism in China—simultaneously Western and anti-Western—through the eyes of one intellectual, an expert in Western philosophy, who is also the creator of a wildly popular nationalist Web video.

The collapse of the Dohatrade round—the first breakdown of global trade talks since the 1930s—is vivid evidence that we have not found a way to partner with newly rising powers like China and India. If this pattern of misunderstandings, disunity and stalemate continues, there will be little progress on all kinds of urgent global issues—energy, food, environment, human rights, security.

There is enough blame to go around for the collapse of Doha. The Indians, Chinese and Americans were too obstinate in protecting their farmers. But the United States and Europe have not adjusted to the new balance of power. The last set of trade talks, in Cancún, was derailed by Brazil. These were blocked largely by India. (Dealing with these democracies has often proved as complex as with the Chinese dictatorship.) Our impulse is to criticize these countries for all their shortcomings, but in fact our goal should be the opposite. We should be making them feel empowered so they see themselves as rule makers, not free riders on the global system.

The greatest failure of Western foreign policy since the cold war ended has been a sin of omission. We have not pursued a foreign policy toward the world's newly rising powers that aims to create new and enduring relations with them, integrate them into existing structures of power and lay out new rules of the road to secure peace and prosperity. If the emerging countries grow strong outside the old order, they will freelance and be unwilling to help build a new one. The new world might well be the same as the old—the 19th-century world, that is, marked by economic globalization, political nationalism and war.
China Shouldn’t Be Inscrutable
 
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...

I highly recommend Jasper Becker's book, Hungry Ghosts, for anyone who is interested in seeing how power hungry leaders could be, even when their own people must resort to cannibalism to survive.

Amazon.com: Hungry Ghosts: Mao's Secret Famine: Jasper Becker: Books

Children were afraid to go to sleep because their parents might kill one child to feed the rest of the family. Everywhere communism was applied, famine followed. In my own country, Viet Nam, when Mao insisted that China's brand of land reform imposed, famine resulted. Communist 'economies' produced nothing but crap, the communist leaders knew it but in order to survive they had to foist their crap upon each other's citizenry while they import superior foreign goods to enjoy.


“Everywhere communism was applied, famine followed. In my own country, Viet Nam, when Mao insisted that China's brand of land reform imposed, famine resulted. “

This single sentence has revealed the falseness of the narrator: 1) Mao et al may influence Ho Chi-minh with communist idea/methodology, but will never personally impose anything on Vietnam, as that is contrary to their doctrine. China-N. Korea is a vivid living example. China today should arguably have bigger leverage over NK, it nonetheless can do nothing with NK's nuclear. In addition, Soviet Union had equal or perhaps bigger ideological influence on NV than China. 2) India and many other countries never have prevalent communist rule, but famine is still perpetual, whereas in “communist” China, famine has long gone and it actual export some grain product.

Your narrator’s land might have been confiscated by Vietnam Communist (or if you like, Viet Cong), so much does he nurture the hatred that compromises whatever he concludes – in US’s term, he is disqualified for juror in this case.

The famine fact is, yes, there was a big famine in China, and, no, those publications produced by anti-“communists” outside of China have dubious origins and unfounded scientific proofs. Many data are even generated postulation/hypothesis/conjectures caused by inter-fighting between different party factions within CPC.

Frankly, there are lots dark sides in China. Anyone will surely have a delicious serve to his taste, as long as he loves stuffs stinky and slimy. So does this apply to USA, or any other country.

Thus said, the following book is recommended even more highly, based on: a) this book has won a finalist in National Book Award; b) It has more reader views AND higher recommendations than your propaganda book.

A century ago, outsiders saw China as a place where nothing ever changes. Today the country has become one of the most dynamic regions on earth. In Oracle Bones, Peter Hessler explores the human side of China's transformation, viewing modern-day China and its growing links to the Western world through the lives of a handful of ordinary people. In a narrative that gracefully moves between the ancient and the present, the East and the West, Hessler captures the soul of a country that is undergoing a momentous change before our eyes.

Amazon.com: Oracle Bones: A Journey Through Time in China (P.S.): Peter Hessler: Books
 
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Good question, why is China being called People's Republic while it is definitely not a republic?


Trust me they know. Will any communist put “To get rich is glorious.” as national slogan?


I hope not, at least not by universal suffrage. If you knew the results from Super Girls(A popular TV show in China, which everyone can vote for his or her own favourite contestant to be the winner), you won't trust them for choosing anything for you.



LOL nice one

I agree with you on some points that China today is not a text book communist regime, but you are ignoring the fact that the government itself declares itself communist. I suppose you could call the government "Reformist Communist"? but what for? Im not sure what you are trying to achieve by saying that China is not communist, do you not like communism?
China has had to take on board capitalism to keep up with the world.
I strongly disagree with two points you made earlier by saying democracy is weak and invented capitalism.
Capitalism was the invention of mass production and modern manufacturing techniques. Sure Capitalism may have some drawbacks, but it pushed invention, technology, competition and transparency further in the last 100 years than ever before. And I dont get how you say democracy is weak. What is weak about having the power to criticize and remove the head of stat if i disagree with their policies? I can understand the Chinese people having pride in their country just like everybody else, but mate what if one day you didnt like who was running the show? If the government of a communism country is doing a poor job running the country, how do get to change the government without violence?
 
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This single sentence has revealed the falseness of the narrator: 1) Mao et al may influence Ho Chi-minh with communist idea/methodology, but will never personally impose anything on Vietnam, as that is contrary to their doctrine.
That sentence was made by me, I am Vietnamese.

Amazon.com: Following Ho Chi Minh: The Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel: Bui Tin: Books

Colonle Bui Tin was the NVA's chief propaganda officer and the man who accepted South Viet Nam's surrender. He became, first, disillusioned with how the Vietnamese communists treated their country, particularly the people, after the war, then he realized what communism really is -- a bloody and dictatorial ideology that does mankind no good.

Here is what Bui Tin said about Ho Chi Minh and China in his memoir...
Chapter 2 Reform

Admiration of China was widespread at this period because of the blind attitudes and a lack of self-confidence. In my opinion, Ho Chi Minh was to blame. Initially he was very hesitant about land reform, then at the beginning of 1952 he was critised by Stalin for pursuing a policy based on nationalism rather than class warfare. But it was Mao Tse-tung who really forced his hand.

A very interesting illustration of this attitude occurred in the early stages of land reform near Thai Nguyen, when an action brigade arrived to work with the peasants on a plantation owned by Mrs. Nguyen Thi Nam. She had helped communist revolutionaries as far back as 1937 and had on occasion even sheltered Truong Chinh and Hoang Quoc Viet. What is more, her two sons had joined the Revolution and by 1954 were high-ranking officers. But the Chinese adviser quickly concluded that she was a cruel landowner who had to be eliminated. Some simple peasants naively related that Mrs. Nam was good and kind, she went to the pagoda, handed out charity and looked after many revolutionary fighters, so she should be considered a landowner belonging to the Resistance. For their pains, these peasants were adjudged to be lackeys seeking to protect a landowner, by a Chinese adviser as well as a brigade leader who came from Nge An. The atmosphere became even more tense as grassroots hired labourers arrived to begin the political struggle leading to the holding of a people's court.

Hoang Quoc Viet who was in the area and realised what was going on, rushed to Hanoi to inform Ho Chi Minh. He listened attentively and then said, "It's not right. The campaign should not start off by shooting a woman and certainly not one who has looked after Communist cadres and is the mother of a regimental political commissar in the People's Army." Ho Chi Minh then promised to intervene by talking to Truong Chinh, the head of the Land Reform Programme, about this urgent matter. But it did not happen. Mrs. Nam was quickly condemned to death on the advice of Mao Tse-tung's representative who accused her of deceitfully entering the ranks of the revolution to destroy it from within.

Years later, I asked Hoang Quoc Viet what he thought about this case and he told me, "When I spoke to Uncle Ho, he knew it was not right, but he dared not tell them." By 'them' he meant the sons of Heaven, the representatives of Mao Tse-tung. Here Ho Chi Minh made a big mistake. Did he not realise he was head of state and Chairman of the Party? By remaining silent and failing to intervene in the case of Mrs. Nam, he showed a lack of responsibility not only towards her and her family but also towards all the other people who were victimised and killed during the land reform programme. He allowed his country and his Party to usurped by foreigners.
The Soviet Union was the ideological head of the communist monster. If the world needed to see an Asian face of this monster, Mao Tse-tung was that face. When I said that Mao imposed Chinese-style land reform in North Viet Nam, I did not meant that Mao was personally involved, only that because Mao was the Asian representative of communism, his words and means of implementing whatever policies are laws and to disobey is to invite certain death. Ho Chi Minh was sufficiently cowed not only by his fear of Mao but also of Stalin. China ran amok in North Viet Nam and everyone knew it.

China-N. Korea is a vivid living example. China today should arguably have bigger leverage over NK, it nonetheless can do nothing with NK's nuclear.
Wrong...NKR relied upon China for fuel and food. China needed NKR as a buffer against SKR, JPN and by extension the US. China could near literally pull the plug on NKR and defuse the current military tension in short order.

In addition, Soviet Union had equal or perhaps bigger ideological influence on NV than China.
The Soviets needed an Asian face and China was the enforcer.

2) India and many other countries never have prevalent communist rule, but famine is still perpetual, whereas in “communist” China, famine has long gone and it actual export some grain product.
The famines in China, the Ukraine, North Viet Nam and Chile were caused by implementations of communism, not by natural disasters or flawed economic policies. North Viet Nam's land was fertile and the people experts and productive. The communists in a few years nearly destroyed generations worth of such knowledge. The Soviets exported Lysenkoism, so named after Trofim Lysenko, a mix of political ideology and science whose policies ended in nothing but disasters.

Lysenkoism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lysenkoism was a set of repressive political and social campaigns in science and agriculture by the powerful Stalinist director of the Soviet Lenin All-Union Institute of Agricultural Sciences, Trofim Denisovich Lysenko and his followers, which began in the late 1920s and formally ended in 1964.
C. C. Tan: A Life of Peaks and Valleys -- Crow 164 (1): 1 -- Genetics
Alas, the Lysenko debacle in the Soviet world was taking hold in China. For the next 3 decades, Tan's life was one of political upheaval, intellectual uncertainty, and personal hardship, mixed with shorter periods in which things went somewhat better. At no time, however, was he able to pursue the research he was really interested in.

During this period in China, orthodox geneticists were forced to conform to Lysenko's Lamarckian views or else switch to another field. Maize geneticists told me of being sent to grow maize in cold climates, where the short growing season was totally unsuited. Not only were these workers predictably unsuccessful, they endured various hardships including malnutrition. Tan stopped teaching genetics and concentrated on evolution. He escaped political difficulties by emphasizing paleontology and the evidence of evolution, rather than mechanisms. Of course, the ladybird and Drosophila population studies had to be dropped; they were not "practical" enough.
Other nonsense exported were that crops would be 'happiest' if similar crops were grown closely together. Lysenkoism was tossed aside but only after a costly human toll -- famine -- in both countries, Russia and China, where ironically lies some of the world's most fertile soil.

Your narrator’s land might have been confiscated by Vietnam Communist (or if you like, Viet Cong), so much does he nurture the hatred that compromises whatever he concludes – in US’s term, he is disqualified for juror in this case.
Then who is the most qualified? Are you saying that the victim of a crime cannot pass a moral judgement upon what was thrown upon him? A black slave in mid-1800s America cannot call his and other blacks' condition 'immoral'? This is not a legal judgment but a moral condemnation. When, after reunification and the Vietnamese communists went on a killing spree, the world saw an exodus from Viet Nam called 'the boat people'. If you are not happy with America and the US government, what could you do? Renounce your US citizenship? Move to Europe? How perilous would that journey be? When you have a group of people willing to risk their lives in shark infested waters instead of remaining with their own countrymen, that is a moral vote of no confidence in the highest.

The famine fact is, yes, there was a big famine in China, and, no, those publications produced by anti-“communists” outside of China have dubious origins and unfounded scientific proofs. Many data are even generated postulation/hypothesis/conjectures caused by inter-fighting between different party factions within CPC.
Sorry...But you cannot have it both ways. First...You disqualify victims of communism as emotionally biased whose moral acumen are irrevocably damaged. Now you denounce critics of communism as nothing more petty conspirators.

Frankly, there are lots dark sides in China. Anyone will surely have a delicious serve to his taste, as long as he loves stuffs stinky and slimy. So does this apply to USA, or any other country.
Show me a single communist country that have been economically prosperous, culturally diverse and scientifically innovative as democratic-capitalist ones. Communism set China back at least 50yrs of human progress. It baffles me to see any Chinese willing to subject China's rich history to this evil ideology and by making excuses for the current regime.
 
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