Iron Man army

[Götterdämmerung]

Yeah, it's called aid to ungrateful countries. If you want to solve all 3rd world countries problems at the source, well, we have no money for that. It would quickly become an endless pit.

We never tackeled anything in the past with the billions of aid, but rather helped the local dictators to fill their bank accounts in Switzerland.

The best help is money that are bound to a project education, infrastructure that are rigorously audited. Half the money is paid to get the project started and half after finishing. A similar approach that China does in African countries would also be pracmatic.

What is your solution to solve the migrants coming from Africa?

 

[flamer84]

We never tackeled anything in the past with the billions of aid, but rather helped the local dictators to fill their bank accounts in Switzerland.

The best help is money that are bound to a project education, infrastructure that are rigorously audited. Half the money is paid to get the project started and half after finishing. A similar approach that China does in African countries would also be pracmatic.

Those are money wasted,history proves that.They'll take half the money,pocket them and the project will never be finished.Bleeding money out of Europe to the third world instead of using them back home to creeate new jobs is a complete waste.Military research has a good impact on R&D in general and on education,plus Europe desperately needs new jobs.A good example is the IDF.

What is your solution to solve the migrants coming from Africa?

Immediate expulsion (not interment in some camp like Lampedusa) as soon as they arrive.Turn back the boats intercepted even at sea.After they get the general ideea that there is no chance that they would be let in ,they would stop coming.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Those are money wasted,history proves that.They'll take half the money,pocket them and the project will never be finished.Bleeding money out of Europe to the third world instead of using them back home to creeate new jobs is a complete waste.Military research has a good impact on R&D in general and on education,plus Europe desperately needs new jobs.A good example is the IDF.

That's because you don't know the history and just repeat the racist stereotype that has been spewed by right-wings. The billions of Euros we poured into those countries were never meant to help the people but to get a license to exploit them. We purged democratically elected governments and installed monsters that gave us access to plunder. As a compensation we gave so called development aids. Our heavily subsidised agrarian products were given free to the population killing the farmers, our second hand clothes were shipped to them killing their textile industry, the two very industries that practically all successful developing countries built their modernisation on.

All we did was to make us feel good, nothing else. On top of that, our tax system was intended to make them pure resource exporter. Any added value was taxed to death.

There are so many fields to do research and create jobs. Sorry, Germany is footing the major part of the bill, we in Germany don't want to spend more on weapons. We won't hinder you to spend more on that field.

Immediate expulsion (not interment in some camp like Lampedusa) as soon as they arrive.Turn back the boats intercepted even at sea.After they get the general ideea that there is no chance that they would be let in ,they would stop coming.

What will you do, when they get so desperate that 100 boats with several hundreds of people per boat including infants try to swarm in? Kill them all?

Sorry, that's not the Europe I want to be part of.

 

[flamer84]

That's because you don't know the history and just repeat the racist stereotype that has been spewed by right-wings. The billions of Euros we poured into those countries were never meant to help the people but to get a license to exploit them. We purged democratically elected governments and installed monsters that gave us access to plunder. As a compensation we gave so called development aids. Our heavily subsidised agrarian products were given free to the population killing the farmers, our second hand clothes were shipped to them killing their textile industry, the two very industries that practically all successful developing countries built their modernisation on.

All we did was to make us feel good, nothing else. On top of that, our tax system was intended to make them pure resource exporter. Any added value was taxed to death.

There are so many fields to do research and create jobs. Sorry, Germany is footing the major part of the bill, we in Germany don't want to spend more on weapons. We won't hinder you to spend more on that field.



What will you do, when they get so desperate that 100 boats with several hundreds of people per boat including infants try to swarm in? Kill them all?

Sorry, that's not the Europe I want to be part of.

1.Yes you will,as you're curently dictating economic measures in Europe.And,sry ,hiking defence budgets to at least 2,2-2,4 % of GDP is not iresponsible spending on weapons,it's common sence,it's not like you're in the 4%+ league of some other countries out there,you need to spend that to have a decent common european army for self defence,i'm not thinking of an "american style" conquering behemoth.

2.Apeasement doesn't work anymore,you best take a look around,we're despised anyway,it's time to think to our own future and stop beeing the do gooders of the world,we're not responsible for everybody out there,not with unemployement going rampant at our own door.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

1.Yes you will,as you're curently dictating economic measures in Europe.And,sry ,hiking defence budgets to at least 2,2-2,4 % of GDP is not iresponsible spending on weapons,it's common sence,it's not like you're in the 4%+ league of some other countries out there,you need to spend that to have a decent common european army for self defence,i'm not thinking of an "american style" conquering behemoth.

First of all, we should form our own EU army and get out of US dominated NATO, the overall expenditure for military should never go beyond 2.5% of EU total GDP. That sum should be enough to deter any aggression against us. We should also refrain of intervening countries outside of the EU. It's non of our problems. I'd rather spend the money to solve our internal problmes, and boy thee are tons of problems. The arm industry will never be able to solve the (particularly youth) unemployment in southern Europe. How are they going to employ 10 – 20 million in the arm industry?

2.Apeasement doesn't work anymore,you best take a look around,we're despised anyway,it's time to think to our own future and stop beeing the do gooders of the world,we're not responsible for everybody out there,not with unemployement going rampant at our own door.

Confrontation is the worst option. Look what the US has achieved in the WOT!

We need resources, we need markets and therefore we need co-operations. We need to build up markets in developing countries just like the China is doing now in Africa. There is no market when they remain poor and unstable. The EU market is more than saturated. I don't need another TV set, another car, dish washer, etc.

 

[Karasonmuno]

I'm originally from a city north of Gaza but my family became refugees. I'm an American Palestinian though. I lived in Gaza for some time too. I go there often.

This is somewhat irrelevant to this thread, but do you think peace with the Israelis is at all possible? Or do you think other, more direct methods are necessary to resolve the dispute?

 

[Falcon29]

This is somewhat irrelevant to this thread, but do you think peace with the Israelis is at all possible? Or do you think other, more direct methods are necessary to resolve the dispute?

I'll try my best answering that tomorrow.

 

[vostok]

First of all, we should form our own EU army and get out of US dominated NATO, the overall expenditure for military should never go beyond 2.5% of EU total GDP. That sum should be enough to deter any aggression against us.

Are there a lot of people in Germany who are unhappy with the U.S. occupation?
Guarantee of the security of Europe - close collaboration between Germany and Russia. In this case, Germany will be covered from the east and Russia - from the west.

 

[flamer84]

First of all, we should form our own EU army and get out of US dominated NATO, the overall expenditure for military should never go beyond 2.5% of EU total GDP. That sum should be enough to deter any aggression against us. We should also refrain of intervening countries outside of the EU. It's non of our problems. I'd rather spend the money to solve our internal problmes, and boy thee are tons of problems. The arm industry will never be able to solve the (particularly youth) unemployment in southern Europe. How are they going to employ 10 – 20 million in the arm industry?



Confrontation is the worst option. Look what the US has achieved in the WOT!

We need resources, we need markets and therefore we need co-operations. We need to build up markets in developing countries just like the China is doing now in Africa. There is no market when they remain poor and unstable. The EU market is more than saturated. I don't need another TV set, another car, dish washer, etc.

1.That's what i've said basically.I was not thinking about aircraft carriers or a power projection force,just enough to defend our borders.For further discussion you might want to check this topic,we've covered these aspects:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/europe-russia/275869-eu-needs-defence-force-under-union-command-4.html#post4877982

2.Securing our borders does not equal american style confrontation or intervention.Look at Bulgaria right now ,they're building a wall at the border with Turkey to stop immigrants.

 

[flamer84]

Are there a lot of people in Germany who are unhappy with the U.S. occupation?
Guarantee of the security of Europe - close collaboration between Germany and Russia. In this case, Germany will be covered from the east and Russia - from the west.

Just as the USA ,Russia has no business meddling in Europe.Our security must be covered by ourselves and no outside power.Swaping american interference with russian one is a no go.

 

[PeaceGen]

Wrong.France and Britain have nukes,the rest of us have ever decreasing armies and ever increasing welfare programs.Investing more money in the weapon industry and rearming european armies will creeate numerous new jobs and will give boost to our economies.Where should money come for this,you ask ? The EU spends 53 billion E (over 70 billion $)!!!! annualy in donations to third world countries.Imagine cutting these funds right now and investing them in our weapons industries on a 10 year span and we allready have 700 billion $+ more hundreds of billions if we cut welfare for immigrants,shut all the aid/integration programs for immigrants and even expel them ASAP.It will automatically create hundreds of thousands of jobs all over Europe.With these money we can arm and standardize weapons in all EU countries with indigenous european weapons so the local industries and jobs keep thriving + create a credible deterent to all future wannabe agressors.

@Gabriel92 , @Götterdämmerung @Audio an opinion on this ?

Well, Romania is part of NATO. And if you want to learn about how to keep yourself safe from foreign aggressors (whom I *also* motivate to decrease their 'defense' spending by at least not joining in on too many armsraces), then here's your first lesson; if anyone attacks any nation in NATO, it's an attack on ALL OF US. Therefore, those US/French/UK/Dutch nukes will protect you as well

As for that complaining you do about 'welfare states', yes, the core of that argument has merit imo. But take a look at the other side explained in the video on the frontpage of The Rules and see how income equality (and economic opportunity and jobsecurity!) has been eroded more and more over the last 100(?) years at least or so, by the kind of people who would glaaadly build you your very-expensive new weapons...
Plus, I really don't think it's morally right to create jobs that are centered around the killing of humans (because weapons development is not politically viable without *producing* those weapons once developed, and then those weapons sooner rather than later *have* to get used, quite likely as tools to secure economic interests under the guises of securing our security and/or spreading democracy/freedom, to keep those people in those production jobs busy and paid) .. We can do other things with our minds and money you know, like solving climate change problems or lowering the price of clean water, healthy food and safe housing.

Shinedown - Enemies [Official Music Video] - YouTube

Linkin Park - CASTLE OF GLASS (featured in Medal of Honor Warfighter) - YouTube

Linkin Park - BURN IT DOWN (Official Music Video) - YouTube

 

[flamer84]

@peacefan....I don't know man,maybe is my east european mentality and the fact that i come from a poor family,my father and mother busted their back in menial jobs to support us and i've worked since 16 through highschool,college so i can get an education and a better life so i can't relate to all this entitlement for other people.I believe that everybody should work if they want a better life and not go the socialist way expecting the state to provide for you.

 

[PeaceGen]

@peacefan....I don't know man,maybe is my east european mentality and the fact that i come from a poor family,my father and mother busted their back in menial jobs to support us and i've worked since 16 through highschool,college so i can get an education and a better life so i can't relate to all this entitlement for other people.I believe that everybody should work if they want a better life and not go the socialist way expecting the state to provide for you.

Thanks for being so quickly convinced that defense industries aren't the best industries with which to create more jobs.

The tip I have for anyone wanting to make a buck by themselves without any investment, is to learn application programming (web/phone atm) and for instance develop niche websites, host ads on those, spend ur spare income on advertising those sites of yours, and work toward getting more ad revenue back than you invest in advertising your sites.. some sites that'll help u get started are :

http://www.wampserver.com/en

https://www.google.nl/search?q=php+tutorial

https://www.google.nl/search?q=html+tutorial

https://www.google.nl/search?q=javascript+tutorial

the best price/quality for domain registrations and (google: )'live site' hosting you'll find at http://godaddy.com i think

and if you want to put your home wampserver on a real url, there's http://freedns.afraid.org which has always worked like a charm for me

and ofcourse https://www.google.nl/search?q=cheap+advertising and https://www.google.nl/search?q=online+marketing+tutorial instead of using way too expensive programs like google adsense

 

[flamer84]

Thanks for being so quickly convinced that defense industries aren't the best industries with which to create more jobs.

The tip I have for anyone wanting to make a buck by themselves without any investment, is to learn application programming (web/phone atm) and for instance develop niche websites, host ads on those, spend ur spare income on advertising those sites of yours, and work toward getting more ad revenue back than you invest in advertising your sites.. some sites that'll help u get started are :

WampServer, the web development platform on Windows - Apache, MySQL, PHP

https://www.google.nl/search?q=php+tutorial

https://www.google.nl/search?q=html+tutorial

https://www.google.nl/search?q=javascript+tutorial

the best price/quality for domain registrations and (google: )'live site' hosting you'll find at Domain Names | The World's Largest Domain Name Registrar - GoDaddy i think

and if you want to put your home wampserver on a real url, there's FreeDNS - Free DNS - Dynamic DNS - Static DNS subdomain and domain hosting which has always worked like a charm for me

and ofcourse https://www.google.nl/search?q=cheap+advertising and https://www.google.nl/search?q=online+marketing+tutorial instead of using way too expensive programs like google adsense

Thanks,but i actually do make a good,better said decent living right now thanks to the fact that i work and never expected hand outs from nobody.

I never said that investing more in the defence industries will solve the job crisis in Europe it will however creeate tens of thousands of new jobs ,even more on the horizontal.As i've said 2-2.5% of GDP it's not such a huge sacrifice.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Are there a lot of people in Germany who are unhappy with the U.S. occupation?
Guarantee of the security of Europe - close collaboration between Germany and Russia. In this case, Germany will be covered from the east and Russia - from the west.

Yes, a lot!

An economic and security Axis of Berlin - Moscow - Beijing would make the US sheiß in their pants.

1.That's what i've said basically.I was not thinking about aircraft carriers or a power projection force,just enough to defend our borders.For further discussion you might want to check this topic,we've covered these aspects:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/europe-russia/275869-eu-needs-defence-force-under-union-command-4.html#post4877982

2.Securing our borders does not equal american style confrontation or intervention.Look at Bulgaria right now ,they're building a wall at the border with Turkey to stop immigrants.

Well, in that case the money we spend now is more than adequate to secure us from any external aggression if the whole structure is unto one EU command.

Securing our borders with a wall is but just one desperate measure. What we need to understand is the cause of those illegal migrations. Once we get that right, we not only will not need any walls, but will create a new market for our products, have a fair access to resources and thus solve the unemployment problem as well. What we need to do is not to look at African countries as a source of endless problems but as a source of new hopes by making mutually beneficial co-operations. We have to start that now or we'll leave all the chances to other emerging countries.