IRIAF | News and Discussions

[skyshadow]

Guys, did iran manufacture Laser guided bombs like paveway series? Also targeting pods for its jets?

yes they called Sattar family of Laser guided bombs they have sattar 1-2-3-4

the one in red is an Sattar

and this is an IRGC targeting pod

 

[Mithridates]

Guys, did iran manufacture Laser guided bombs like paveway series? Also targeting pods for its jets?

the white long tube under the f-4 is tls-99 targeting pod and the bomb next to the fuel tank is sattar-4 which actually is laser guided missile. these projects are really old and date back to the early 90's.

 

[TheImmortal]

Underground missile base =/= underground airbase

You still need a takeoff strip without any obstacles (read: blast doors) for lets say 550 meters for an Su-35 which you claim. Sure you can cover the entrance with a huge blast door, but you still need an opening which the plane flies through which exposes the runway for the entire 550 meter.

There is no way any blast door can survive and still work against multiple direct CM hits. And such a blast door is so heavy and cumbersome that it takes a long time to open and close, which will severely hinder sortie rates. Not to mention any repairs or replacement that needs to be done on such a blast door.

And you still need an exposed airstrip to land. How is that going to survive a pulverization attack by cruise missiles and a subsequent antipersonnel mine spreading cruise missile to hinder any repair.

Good luck taking off through a 30 foot gap

where are you getting this 30 foot gap from? What is your fascination with this number?
This isn’t the Death Star, there isn’t a magical 30 ft gap Achilles heel you keep referring to.

Blast doors can be hydraulic operated that come through the ground. Same way silo doors are generated.

Also a mountain is by logic above sea level. So building into a mountain is not underground.

It is quite possible to build and would operate on a similar concept as carrier concept and hyperloop concept. You would have a storage area where aircraft are kept behind in fortified chamber. Iran has a lot of experience building these chambers.

Then you have a taxi area that is located outside the fortified chamber where 3-4 fighter jets can taxi behind one another at a time. That taxi area connects to 3-4 550-700 meter parallel runaways. One blast door at the beginning of runway and one blast door at the exit of each runway.

Upon alert the doors of the blast doors of each runway open and the fighter jets move into their parallel lanes. Then Engines are ignited and they take off.

Each parallel lane would be only 1/2 a missile base lane in terms of width (see below).

As you can see 4 of these bases scattered strategically across Iran would TOTAL have minimum of 80 aircraft (air superiority fighters) to fly out plus another 40 future Iranian supersonic UAV bombers. (So that means 20 fighter jets and 10 UAVs per base).

Now these bases would be surrounded by Skyguard AAA, automated short range air defense and would also be inside a Bavar battalions “kill sphere”.

Furthermore, Iran has extensive GPS jamming technology thus any CM entering the area would be subject to EW. All US cruise missiles rely on GPS for precision guidance.

Lastly something you simply didn’t think of is strong alloy “nets” that can be raised in front of the entrances of the base. Any CM trying to attack the blast doors would be sliced into pieces and detonate early. The concept is similar to “cages” around tanks and APCs that aim to slice the warhead of an anti tank missile and force it to detonate prematurely.

These bases would be in CONJUNCTION with the the standard Air bases located across the country that would house Iran’s other 200+ aircraft. The goal here is to make sure at least 60-80 air superiority fighters survive the first few months of war so they can protect the AD rings and take stress off the AD network. The idea isn’t to SAVE every Iranian fighter jet nor is it to make Iran’s entire airforce in mountain. But merely 20-30% (assuming a 300 fleet force).

 

[triangle]

where are you getting this 30 foot gap from? What is your fascination with this number?
This isn’t the Death Star, there isn’t a magical 30 ft gap Achilles heel you keep referring to.

 

[Blue In Green]

where are you getting this 30 foot gap from? What is your fascination with this number?
This isn’t the Death Star, there isn’t a magical 30 ft gap Achilles heel you keep referring to.

Blast doors can be hydraulic operated that come through the ground. Same way silo doors are generated.

Also a mountain is by logic above sea level. So building into a mountain is not underground.

It is quite possible to build and would operate on a similar concept as carrier concept and hyperloop concept. You would have a storage area where aircraft are kept behind in fortified chamber. Iran has a lot of experience building these chambers.

Then you have a taxi area that is located outside the fortified chamber where 3-4 fighter jets can taxi behind one another at a time. That taxi area connects to 3-4 550-700 meter parallel runaways. One blast door at the beginning of runway and one blast door at the exit of each runway.

Upon alert the doors of the blast doors of each runway open and the fighter jets move into their parallel lanes. Then Engines are ignited and they take off.

Each parallel lane would be only 1/2 a missile base lane in terms of width (see below).

As you can see 4 of these bases scattered strategically across Iran would TOTAL have minimum of 80 aircraft (air superiority fighters) to fly out plus another 40 future Iranian supersonic UAV bombers. (So that means 20 fighter jets and 10 UAVs per base).

Now these bases would be surrounded by Skyguard AAA, automated short range air defense and would also be inside a Bavar battalions “kill sphere”.

Furthermore, Iran has extensive GPS jamming technology thus any CM entering the area would be subject to EW. All US cruise missiles rely on GPS for precision guidance.

Lastly something you simply didn’t think of is strong alloy “nets” that can be raised in front of the entrances of the base. Any CM trying to attack the blast doors would be sliced into pieces and detonate early. The concept is similar to “cages” around tanks and APCs that aim to slice the warhead of an anti tank missile and force it to detonate prematurely.

These bases would be in CONJUNCTION with the the standard Air bases located across the country that would house Iran’s other 200+ aircraft. The goal here is to make sure at least 60-80 air superiority fighters survive the first few months of war so they can protect the AD rings and take stress off the AD network. The idea isn’t to SAVE every Iranian fighter jet nor is it to make Iran’s entire airforce in mountain. But merely 20-30% (assuming a 300 fleet force).

Dadash this isn't Ace Combat lmao.

You literally just described the layout of a mountain base from the Japanese Arcade Jet fighting game: Ace Combat 6 to a tee (I played a mission where there are bases exactly like what you just described). Are you sure you're not being influenced by Video Game design here? (joking here obviously lol)

You know we have to take into account budget and realism not to mention the reality of Iran just seemingly not wanting to focus all that much on supporting and maintaining its air-force more than it has to currently. In what feasible reality is Iran going dig into mountains in order to store and operate air superiority fighters from? Clearly the Iranian military establishment has decided not to put their eggs into the air-power basket for now and thus far the results have been....hmm idk what to say really. We got amazing new missiles and methods of firing them along with the largest arsenal in the Middle East (possible the world if it continues like this). But to just make a U-turn and try to build up an air-force that is protected in quite expensive mountain bases (per what you described) doesn't sound like the Iran I've been following for over 11 years now.

I mean this sounds good and all but is it realistic?

Sorry man I'm not knocking you but you seem a little too ardent about all this....apologies though, I didn't offer any meaningful rebuttal to your post. What you said is great and sounds amazing but I feel like it's a bit of reach for Iran. My technical knowledge about all this stuff is limited so I won't be able to really say anything of worth regarding it.

All that I do know is that the next war in the Middle East will be one of missiles: he who posses and uses them the best will be the winner. The pace of destruction within the first hours of conflict will be frenetic yet with purpose. Iran's goal is to hinder and take away as much operational capability from its opponents as it can within the opening stages of a conflict. This is where such severe reliance on missiles is coming from. Iran can't not afford switch priorities now when it's just so deep into the missile path.

 

[Ich]

where are you getting this 30 foot gap from? What is your fascination with this number?
This isn’t the Death Star, there isn’t a magical 30 ft gap Achilles heel you keep referring to.

Blast doors can be hydraulic operated that come through the ground. Same way silo doors are generated.

Also a mountain is by logic above sea level. So building into a mountain is not underground.

It is quite possible to build and would operate on a similar concept as carrier concept and hyperloop concept. You would have a storage area where aircraft are kept behind in fortified chamber. Iran has a lot of experience building these chambers.

Then you have a taxi area that is located outside the fortified chamber where 3-4 fighter jets can taxi behind one another at a time. That taxi area connects to 3-4 550-700 meter parallel runaways. One blast door at the beginning of runway and one blast door at the exit of each runway.

Upon alert the doors of the blast doors of each runway open and the fighter jets move into their parallel lanes. Then Engines are ignited and they take off.

Each parallel lane would be only 1/2 a missile base lane in terms of width (see below).

As you can see 4 of these bases scattered strategically across Iran would TOTAL have minimum of 80 aircraft (air superiority fighters) to fly out plus another 40 future Iranian supersonic UAV bombers. (So that means 20 fighter jets and 10 UAVs per base).

Now these bases would be surrounded by Skyguard AAA, automated short range air defense and would also be inside a Bavar battalions “kill sphere”.

Furthermore, Iran has extensive GPS jamming technology thus any CM entering the area would be subject to EW. All US cruise missiles rely on GPS for precision guidance.

Lastly something you simply didn’t think of is strong alloy “nets” that can be raised in front of the entrances of the base. Any CM trying to attack the blast doors would be sliced into pieces and detonate early. The concept is similar to “cages” around tanks and APCs that aim to slice the warhead of an anti tank missile and force it to detonate prematurely.

These bases would be in CONJUNCTION with the the standard Air bases located across the country that would house Iran’s other 200+ aircraft. The goal here is to make sure at least 60-80 air superiority fighters survive the first few months of war so they can protect the AD rings and take stress off the AD network. The idea isn’t to SAVE every Iranian fighter jet nor is it to make Iran’s entire airforce in mountain. But merely 20-30% (assuming a 300 fleet force).

Sounds good. Similar like i said it on old IMF years ago when Qaher 313 shows up and me was a bit disappointed cause it was not stol or vtol what would be perfect for fighters hidden in mountain bases.

 

[TheImmortal]

Dadash this isn't Ace Combat lmao.

You literally just described the layout of a mountain base from the Japanese Arcade Jet fighting game: Ace Combat 6 to a tee (I played a mission where there are bases exactly like what you just described). Are you sure you're not being influenced by Video Game design here? (joking here obviously lol)

You know we have to take into account budget and realism not to mention the reality of Iran just seemingly not wanting to focus all that much on supporting and maintaining its air-force more than it has to currently. In what feasible reality is Iran going dig into mountains in order to store and operate air superiority fighters from? Clearly the Iranian military establishment has decided not to put their eggs into the air-power basket for now and thus far the results have been....hmm idk what to say really. We got amazing new missiles and methods of firing them along with the largest arsenal in the Middle East (possible the world if it continues like this). But to just make a U-turn and try to build up an air-force that is protected in quite expensive mountain bases (per what you described) doesn't sound like the Iran I've been following for over 11 years now.

I mean this sounds good and all but is it realistic?

Sorry man I'm not knocking you but you seem a little too ardent about all this....apologies though, I didn't offer any meaningful rebuttal to your post. What you said is great and sounds amazing but I feel like it's a bit of reach for Iran. My technical knowledge about all this stuff is limited so I won't be able to really say anything of worth regarding it.

All that I do know is that the next war in the Middle East will be one of missiles: he who posses and uses them the best will be the winner. The pace of destruction within the first hours of conflict will be frenetic yet with purpose. Iran's goal is to hinder and take away as much operational capability from its opponents as it can within the opening stages of a conflict. This is where such severe reliance on missiles is coming from. Iran can't not afford switch priorities now when it's just so deep into the missile path.

You should probably educate yourself.

WW2 bunkers

Chinese air bases built in 50’s (more than 40 built)

Yugoslavia

So if Nazi Germany and Communist China can do this 80 years ago without advanced tunnel boring machines, then surely Iran can do it today.

How do you think Iran’s metros get built like the Tajrish one located so deep underground that you need 10 mins of stairs just to get back to surface of city?

Elon Musk wants to build tunnels across Los Angeles. I am asking Iran to build 500 meter tunnels plus some space for storage.

 

[AmirPatriot]

@TheImmortal

Runways are not ramps that one only needs to get to the end of and launch from at that point. They are the length they are for a reason. Aircraft takeoff whenever they have the lift to do so; keeping at aircraft at just under takeoff speed for too long is damaging to the landing gear and tyres, and could have catastrophic results.

The takeoff run depends on the type of aircraft and its fuel and weapons load. It is not fixed.

Airbases like Hamadan have 4000m long runways for many reasons, one of them is to accommodate transport aircraft that would be the only way to replenish an airbase (but especially one in a mountain) quickly.

Underground/mountain runways are a catastrophe waiting to happen if the aircraft based there have any issues at all during takeoff and landing - which they will.

Even if you only wanted to have the supporting infrastructure in a mountain, good luck finding adjacent flat land for a runway.

If you want a big engineering project for an airbase, you're better off making a "normal" super airbase.

Aircraft runways damaged by normal bombs and cruise missiles can be repaired in as little as under 24 hours. You just need to protect them from specialised anti-runway bombs that inflict longer lasting damage, and ballistic missiles if the enemy has them - currently they don't. But ABM systems, coupled with SAMs and the fighters you seek to base there should be capable of fending off these threats.

The major engineering work would be on a highly redundant number of taxiways, and heavily fortified aircraft shelters, fuel/ammo dumps, and other supporting infrastructure. Iran has good experience with fortifying structures of this size.

Red Hill Underground Fuel Storage Facility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TheImmortal]

@TheImmortal

Runways are not ramps that one only needs to get to the end of and launch from at that point. They are the length they are for a reason. Aircraft takeoff whenever they have the lift to do so; keeping at aircraft at just under takeoff speed for too long is damaging to the landing gear and tyres, and could have catastrophic results.

The takeoff run depends on the type of aircraft and its fuel and weapons load. It is not fixed.

Airbases like Hamadan have 4000m long runways for many reasons, one of them is to accommodate transport aircraft that would be the only way to replenish an airbase (but especially one in a mountain) quickly.

Underground/mountain runways are a catastrophe waiting to happen if the aircraft based there have any issues at all during takeoff and landing - which they will.

Even if you only wanted to have the supporting infrastructure in a mountain, good luck finding adjacent flat land for a runway.

If you want a big engineering project for an airbase, you're better off making a "normal" super airbase.

Aircraft runways damaged by normal bombs and cruise missiles can be repaired in as little as under 24 hours. You just need to protect them from specialised anti-runway bombs that inflict longer lasting damage, and ballistic missiles if the enemy has them - currently they don't. But ABM systems, coupled with SAMs and the fighters you seek to base there should be capable of fending off these threats.

The major engineering work would be on a highly redundant number of taxiways, and heavily fortified aircraft shelters, fuel/ammo dumps, and other supporting infrastructure. Iran has good experience with fortifying structures of this size.

Red Hill Underground Fuel Storage Facility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It seems you didn’t bother to read my post.

First of all the concept is not new nor revolutionary. China built over 40 such “supporting” bases in the 1950’s when it thought nuclear war with the US was a distinct possibility. The distinct difference was they built runways outside from which the planes could take off and land.

And if China was able to find 40 suitable locations (who knows how many PLA has today) you are telling me Iran can’t find 4? Quite laughable. Building flat land for runway is not an impossible task you make it out to be. If Iran can build missile bases and move volatile solid fuel missiles in and out, it can pave ground smooth enough for fighter jets to land. If you can land planes on the old aircraft carriers (before supercarriers existed) you can land fighter jets near mountains.
I specifically said the type of aircraft that would be stored in such a base would be an air superiority fighter such as SU-35 which has a minimum take off length of 550 meters loaded. I am not sure why you bring up Hamadan runways as it’s completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. No one is building a base to store C-130s and have them take off from inside a mountain.

I also specifically said the take off portion would happen within the tunnel base not the landing portion which would happen outside. The ability to take off while the runway is under repairs is a key reason why the ability to take off from inside the base is needed and should exist.

It is neither impossible nor extraordinary expensive given the deterrence you are trying to create. The minerals recovered and jobs/industries the project creates/employs can help boost the economy as well. Often what is referred to as “shovel ready projects”.

I have the no doubt Iranian planners realize this and that any future Iranian fighter will have shorter take off and landing requirements as a necessity. If you can make the enemy hesitate or question their ability to degrade your air forces, the base has done its job.

These strategic bases are no different then strategic C&C bunkers/nuclear proof silos/ and missile bases. They serve a distinct purpose and that purpose is that even if the regular Air Force bases fall to enemy fire, there will always be contingent that is ready to respond. This will make the enemy have to work harder to win the air space war and may even prevent a war altogether due to extreme cost incurred.

 

[TheImmortal]

Example:

Consisting of dozens of connected caves and capable of holding 200 planes, Chiashan Base, located in Huanlien County, Taiwan, is the largest underground air base of the Taiwan air force, according to news form Taiwan-based Broadcasting Corporation of China. After years of operating in secret, the base was finally made open to the media in April.

With a 2,400-meter runway through Chiashan hangar, the base has hidden taxiways connecting it to the neighboring Huanlien Base. The base is capable of withstanding conventional missiles. Construction of the base started in 1985 and lasted nearly nine years.

Taiwan's largest underground air base revealed - People's Daily Online

Consistingofdozensofconnectedcavesandcapableofholding200planes,ChiashanBase,locatedin

en.people.cn

The underground hangar has ten blast doors which exit to multiple runways and has its own hospital as well as multiple underground gas stations.

Just one example built way back in 80’s by Taiwan.

 

[AmirPatriot]

I reiterate; the use of underground runways for any portion of takeoff or landing is inherently dangerous and WILL result in fatalities and loss of aircraft sooner or later.

If a suitable location is found, mountain bases such as China's can be useful, but you have to stay realistic. The main advantage of such bases is their ability to keep safe those assets which are difficult to replace; namely aircraft, pilots, and wider airbase support infrastructure. Runways are very easy to repair as long as they are kept safe from specialised weapons, therefore there is no need to introduce excessive, unnecessary risks to protect them.

In fact, one of the advantages of long, wide runways with highly redundant taxiways is that the entire runway does not need to be fixed for aircraft to get back in the air. As little as 1 or 2 craters.

Better runway protection measures include patrols by high-endurance aircraft, long and short range SAM coverage, and GPS jamming.

Still, aircraft could be protected from bombs by high-performance bunkers. The question is if such a massive excavation and fortification project is more expensive than building bunkers.

If the bunkers are cheaper and the only thing that can destroy them something like a GBU-28C, then they're worth taking over the mountain base. Because a GBU-28C can only be carried by a B-2A and that can carry 2x GBU-57 MOPs that can penetrate even mountain bases.

 

[TheImmortal]

I reiterate; the use of underground runways for any portion of takeoff or landing is inherently dangerous and WILL result in fatalities and loss of aircraft sooner or later.

If a suitable location is found, mountain bases such as China's can be useful, but you have to stay realistic. The main advantage of such bases is their ability to keep safe those assets which are difficult to replace; namely aircraft, pilots, and wider airbase support infrastructure. Runways are very easy to repair as long as they are kept safe from specialised weapons, therefore there is no need to introduce excessive, unnecessary risks to protect them.

In fact, one of the advantages of long, wide runways with highly redundant taxiways is that the entire runway does not need to be fixed for aircraft to get back in the air. As little as 1 or 2 craters.

Better runway protection measures include patrols by high-endurance aircraft, long and short range SAM coverage, and GPS jamming.

Still, aircraft could be protected from bombs by high-performance bunkers. The question is if such a massive excavation and fortification project is more expensive than building bunkers.

If the bunkers are cheaper and the only thing that can destroy them something like a GBU-28C, then they're worth taking over the mountain base. Because a GBU-28C can only be carried by a B-2A and that can carry 2x GBU-57 MOPs that can penetrate even mountain bases.

More examples:

North Korea

Most “bunker busters” could destroy any bunker Iran builds out in the open.

The goal with the indoor runway is to have the ability for the plane to take off if need be. I agree that runways can be repaired fairly quickly. The point of the underground airbase is to protect the aircraft and critical facilities.

 

[skyshadow]

 

[sanel1412]

View attachment 667784

Very bad work(editing),can be seen from mile it is not IRIA MiG 29,debunked ten minutes after it showed up

 

[makranman]

Very bad work(editing),can be seen from mile it is not IRIA MiG 29,debunked ten minutes after it showed up

this guy disagrees:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303112503099097090

also, you can see some of the different camos of mig 29 in here: http://www.mig.mariwoj.pl/
that camo IS for IRIAF. somebody did that. I'm afraid he is not going to get out in one piece.