IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

Ethiopia's Su-27SK faced off in air-to-air combat against Eritrean Mig-29A's in 1999.

And the Flankers won the battle hands down. Eritrea was impressed enough to buy some examples of their own from Russia after the war.

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How Flankers fought Fulcrums in the skies over Africa​

Jan 14 2022
Igor Rozin

https://www.rbth.com/history/334639...m/history/334639-how-flankers-fought-fulcrums
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I'm of the opinion Iran should ditch its Mig-29 (along with the other obsolete fighters you regularly mention) as soon as a viable replacement becomes available. To my knowledge there's no example of an impressive use of the type in war. It seems the only thing interesting about IRIAF's Fulcrums are their engines.

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Iran never bought fighter jets from France, the Mirage F-1's were received from Iraq as part of the package Saddam asked Iran to shelter during the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf war (and never got back).

Actually, Flankers have a long history of mixed aerial records.

-SU-35S and SU-30SM of Ru-AF are constantly operating in Ukrainian airspace. How many times they have even managed to break in deep into the contested territory? One can argue thats not the Russian plan from the beginning but these aircraft are constantly getting lost to SAMs which shows that they are deployed to penetrate the enemy airspace but are failing to do so. So far both sides have lost 18 Flankers during the mission (one I think was lost to bombing on ground).

- In Syria, SU-35S and SU-30SM both have on multiple occasions failed to shoot down Israeli F-16i and F-35 that came in Syria to attack T-4 and other targets. Also, during the Turkish SDF conflict, they chased Turk F-16 Block 30/40 but failed to shoot them, Russian media maintained the word "chased and forced them to leave". That's BS, you are in a war theatre, you dont force someone, you shoot them or they shoot you back.

-Indian SU-30MKs were attacked by Pakistan AF's F-16 Block C/D with BVR and e-warfare Jamming and Sukhois just retreated from the battle scene which resulted into Indian MIG-21 and Helicopters shot down and Indian territory getting bombed.

I am not against Flankers, to me they are like modern-day F-4E/Ds. Heavy, large RCS, high maintenance fighters. Maneuverable (Phantom was not), powerful engines and all but with weak electronics compared to western combat suites. Without proper TOT IRIAF should stay away from this aircraft. Its highly expensive and we don't need their attack capabilities as IRIAF responsibility is to defend Iranian skies in conjunction with Air defense. High numbers of MLUed MIG-29M/SMT or MIG-35E (TOT) should be on the radar of IRIAF. Much cheaper, infrastructure exists in Iran.

I'm of the opinion Iran should ditch its Mig-29 (along with the other obsolete fighters you regularly mention) as soon as a viable replacement becomes available. To my knowledge there's no example of an impressive use of the type in war. It seems the only thing interesting about IRIAF's Fulcrums are their engines.

IRIAF will not ditch its MIG-29 9.12 but they will get grounded in a few years because their airframes need MLU now and their radar and avionics are at best MIG-23ML levels. They came with 9.12 RPKL-29 N019 radar which can barely track a Kowsar-I sized fighter at 45-60 KM, they lack a modern e-warfare suit for ECM, and have no jammers. The package included SPO-15 RWR of MIG-23ML (worst Russian RWR ever) but some argue IRIAF ones lack that as well. They do not have ARH BVR R-77E either and rather rely upon R-27ER1 which is SARH so they cant just shoot and run away using their fast dash speeds. Practically speaking, as menacing as they look, they are almost on verge of being irrelevant in modern combat with no e-warfare suite, no datalink, no good radar. This is a Russian plane so IRIAF won't get it touched by HESA otherwise they can get the airframes MLUed inside HESA while IEI can put its own radar + avionics package on them (Kowsar-I/II like) to get them to MIG-29M/SMT levels.

 

[TheImmortal]

those f-1 are sinkhole for funding and have no actual use , even Taliban hit one of them several years ago

Syria hit a Israeli F-16 with a Cold War era S-200. So I guess we should throw that plane away too.

Anyway it Depends how much it requires to upgrade the F-1 and F-7. A Kowsar is ~10M. If you can do an F-1 upgrade for ~2M then it becomes a cost effective choice considering the abysmal airforce budget.

Or sell them to a country that desperately needs fighter aircraft like Syria or Iraq or (once war ends) Yemen.

By the way South Korea just tested their 4.5 Gen fighter jet and will field 100 by 2026.

Iran has the slowest development path for a fighter jet among any nation to decide to develop its own fighter jet. Yes I know sanctions make things harder, but not 25 years harder (and counting).

We are starting to use sanctions as an excuse when we are behind in a key area.

 

[SalarHaqq]

again anything is better than mig-29 9.12b in this case R-27e of Su-27 have it an edge over mig-29 that only used R-27 (that gave Su-27 aound 20km more range) and the small matter of the fact that su-27 were flown by Russian and su-27 actualy had a basic electric warfare system even in its basic version.

but the radar in the airplane was RLPK-27

as you see against a 3sqm target it has an engagement range of 65 and 40km (compare that to 40 and 20km of Mig-29)
in short still a shitty radar

The Flanker series has leaped hugely since the Su-27SK - which isn't the version Iran would be purchasing anyway, if at all. If you have reason to believe Su-35S is inferior to Mig-35S, explain why. Anything else would be beside the point I was discussing.

and the small matter of the fact that su-27 were flown by Russian

Yet another small fact is that not all Flankers were flown by Russian pilots.

 

[TheImmortal]

aircraft are constantly getting lost to SAMs

SU-35S aren’t constantly getting lost to SAMs in Ukraine. Where is this info coming from?

Russia is losing SU-25 which makes sense since they flow low as a CAS thus in manpad range. They have lost SU-34 bombers. Also older SU-27. Haven’t heard of them losing SU-35s if they did maybe a couple during early months of war.

SU-35 and SU-30 probably scored the most air kills against Ukraine Air Force during the dog fighting days of the war.

- In Syria, SU-35S and SU-30SM both have on multiple occasions failed to shoot down Israeli F-16i and F-35 that came in Syria to attack T-4 and other targets.

Why would Russians who have a conflict hotline with Israel and get tipped off to Israeli air raids try to fire at Israeli aircraft? This is Babak Taghavee propaganda? Russian SU-35 trying to shoot down a Israeli F-35? The two countries were practically strong allies until the Ukraine war.

Israel doesn’t need to fly into Syria to bomb T4 (Iranian drone base) it can fly along Jordan border to Iraqi border and drop payloads or drop payloads thru North Lebanon.

 

[drmeson]

You are right.

However, Iran can still upgrade the plane. It won’t be an A2A fighter, but if knock on it is that it can’t fire the A2A off wingtip....it can. If the knock is it doesn’t have a capable radar...it can. Iran has plenty of A2G munitions to give it with a targeting pod on its pylon.

You never scrap a fighter jet when you don’t have alternatives. Even US with its $700B budget and several NATO nations fly older planes.

Iran doesn’t have the luxury to mothball F-1 and F-7. I’m all for Iran modernizing it’s airforce, but it’s 20 years of tinkering around with what is now Kowsar. And rumored deals with Russia or China.

Until Iran unveils it’s medium and heavy engines, that’s about the best (size) plane it can hope to produce.

-keeping stupid platforms like radar/missile less MF1 or midget radar (Sy-80) F-7N active is a financial burden and nothing else. In battle, they will get shot down to degrade the morale of the force. A large chunk of pilots and ground crew are being wasted on them as well. Same money can go to building more Kowsar-I that can vitalize the same squadrons. Chabahar F-4E/D Dowran's will have a proper wingman to fly with instead of blind Mirages who are just occupying bunkers right now.

-20 years of tinkering around F-5E has given IRIAF an opportunity to re-build itself with something that can share data with Airdefence, UCAVS, fighters while tracking an F-16/F-15/Mirage-2000 at 90-100 km all the while also jamming the enemy radars. The 1970s mindset of "powerful engines", "3.0 Mach or nothing" does not work in modern combat aviation. Modern aircrafts win battles because of electronic warfare and radars, datalinking and guess who can do that all in IRIAF?

 

[Hack-Hook]

The Flanker series has leaped hugely since the Su-27SK - which isn't the version Iran would be purchasing anyway, if at all. If you have reason to believe Su-35S is inferior to Mig-35S, explain why. Anything else would be beside the point I was discussing.

i believe both of them are inferior as russia don't have the capability to produce enough AESA radar for them thats why they decided to don't equip Mig-35 with AESA and Su-35s are not AESA equipped and AESA is a must if you want to use your airplane in the next 20-30 year.

The 1970s mindset of "powerful engines", "3.0 Mach or nothing" does not work in modern combat aviation. Modern aircrafts win battles because of electronic warfare and radars, datalinking and guess who can do that all in IRIAF?

well two aircraft can do that in IRIAF. F-14 and Kowsar , problem is we have A2A missile to do that for F-14 , for kowsar our hand is somehow tied

 

[SalarHaqq]

Actually, Flankers have a long history of mixed aerial records.

I was only meaning to address the 'Flankers versus Fulcrums' aspect.

-SU-35S and SU-30SM of Ru-AF are constantly operating in Ukrainian airspace. How many times they have even managed to break in deep into the contested territory? One can argue thats not the Russian plan from the beginning but these aircraft are constantly getting lost to SAMs which shows that they are deployed to penetrate the enemy airspace but are failing to do so. So far both sides have lost 18 Flankers during the mission (one I think was lost to bombing on ground).

Other things being equal, would Mig-35 or non-Russian jets in the same class fare better?

- In Syria, SU-35S and SU-30SM both have on multiple occasions failed to shoot down Israeli F-16i and F-35 that came in Syria to attack T-4 and other targets. Also, during the Turkish SDF conflict, they chased Turk F-16 Block 30/40 but failed to shoot them, Russian media maintained the word "chased and forced them to leave". That's BS, you are in a war theatre, you dont force someone, you shoot them or they shoot you back.

Russia didn't have the intention to down intruding Isra"el"i aircraft over Syria for sure.

-Indian SU-30MKs were attacked by Pakistan AF's F-16 Block C/D with BVR and e-warfare Jamming and Sukhois just retreated from the battle scene which resulted into Indian MIG-21 and Helicopters shot down and Indian territory getting bombed.

Well, I'm not informed enough about this episode (nor about why it was that the Indian air force at one point chose to pull back its Su-30's), so I can't comment.

IRIAF will not ditch its MIG-29 9.12 but they will get grounded in a few years because their airframes need MLU now and their radar and avionics are at best MIG-23ML levels. They came with 9.12 RPKL-29 N019 radar which can barely track a Kowsar-I sized fighter at 45-60 KM, they lack a modern e-warfare suit for ECM, and have no jammers. The package included SPO-15 RWR of MIG-23ML (worst Russian RWR ever) but some argue IRIAF ones lack that as well. They do not have ARH BVR R-77E either and rather rely upon R-27ER1 which is SARH so they cant just shoot and run away using their fast dash speeds. Practically speaking, as menacing as they look, they are almost on verge of being irrelevant in modern combat with no e-warfare suite, no datalink, no good radar. This is a Russian plane so IRIAF won't get it touched by HESA otherwise they can get the airframes MLUed inside HESA while IEI can put its own radar + avionics package on them (Kowsar-I/II like) to get them to MIG-29M/SMT levels.

I am not against Flankers, to me they are like modern-day F-4E/Ds. Heavy, large RCS, high maintenance fighters. Maneuverable (Phantom was not), powerful engines and all but with weak electronics compared to western combat suites. Without proper TOT IRIAF should stay away from this aircraft. Its highly expensive and we don't need their attack capabilities as IRIAF responsibility is to defend Iranian skies in conjunction with Air defense. High numbers of MLUed MIG-29M/SMT or MIG-35E (TOT) should be on the radar of IRIAF. Much cheaper, infrastructure exists in Iran.

No doubt the latter two points - cost effectiveness and already existing basic infrastructure, represent a weighty argument for a modernization of the existing Mig-29 fleet over purchase of new Su-35 airframes (along with phasing out the Mig-29).

Still, to arrive to a definitive conclusion one would need to compare the capabilities of the types in the interception role and weigh it against the costs generated by these two hypothetical undertakings. Brand new Su-35 will likely be superior to upgraded IRIAF Mig-29. By how much, and would this be worth the price differential are thus the decisive questions.

 

[drmeson]

Syria hit a Israeli F-16 with a Cold War era S-200. So I guess we should throw that plane away too.

Anyway it Depends how much it requires to upgrade the F-1 and F-7. A Kowsar is ~10M. If you can do an F-1 upgrade for ~2M then it becomes a cost effective choice considering the abysmal airforce budget.

Or sell them to a country that desperately needs fighter aircraft like Syria or Iraq or (once war ends) Yemen.

By the way South Korea just tested their 4.5 Gen fighter jet and will field 100 by 2026.

Iran has the slowest development path for a fighter jet among any nation to decide to develop its own fighter jet. Yes I know sanctions make things harder, but not 25 years harder (and counting).

We are starting to use sanctions as an excuse when we are behind in a key area.

-F-16 that got shot down was not shot down because it lacks radars, A2A weapons. MF1 of IRIAF lacks the basic set of attributes a fighter jet should have to be called a fighter jet.

- Kowsar-I from scratch is ~10 Million. Kowsar-I built from a repository of older structures is 7 million which tells us that majority of the budget is eaten by the e-warfare suite, datalink, radars, cockpit layout, etc. Roughly an extensive Mirage-F1 upgrade by HESA+IEI to Morccoan MF-2000 standard with Kowsar-I's suite will cost around 7-8 million USD per aircraft. I am counting in the MLU on 30-35 years old airframes and an extensive overhaul of SNECMA Atars. There would be a requirement for a separate upgradation facility, technicians, etc. For 7-8 Million USD each IRIAF will get MLUed 23 x MF-2000 and for 10 million USD each can get as many Kowsar-I as it wants from the already existing assembly line.

- Iraq doesn't need Mirage F1. In a few years, it will have a force made of F-16C, FC-1 Block III, and T-50. They almost purchased Mirage-2000 few years back too so may be in future they may end up getting them or Rafale.

-Nobody around Iran has developed their "own fighter". Not yet. Israel got close with Lavi program. Kfir-C, Nammar, Nesher were scratch+rebuilt Mirages.

 

[drmeson]

Because Algeria bought SU-57 and SU-30 already


Do you have a source for that first claim?

if you read the aviationgeek link I provided, they discussed the video in which an SU-35's IRBIS-E radar detects and then tracks a target the size of ~F-16. The viewers of the video pointed out that IRBIS-E barely got a difficult track at around 100 KM. Detection is one thing but tracking the target to engage it is another and matters much more than detection. Russian aviation fans countered that the target being tracked is barely 0.6-0.7 m2. Even if we go by Russian claim here it means a SU-35S will track a EF-2000, Rafale, F-16 Block 60 at 100-120 km. By that time these adversaries would have in turn tracked SU-35S (~15 m2 RCS) and launched a BVR attack already with Meteor or AIM-120C/D. There goes your 85 million USD.

 

[TheImmortal]

By that time these adversaries would have in turn tracked SU-35S (~15 m2 RCS) and launched a BVR attack already with Meteor or AIM-120C/D. There goes your 85 million USD.

I assume you ment to say 1.5 m2 RCS and not 15 m2 RCS. RCS of SU-35S is unknown, but estimated anywhere from 1 to 3 m2 RCS with some places claiming .5 m2 RCS if RAM is used in key areas which Russians have experimented with.

I have my doubts that an F-16 could kill an SU-35S armed with its full BVR package first. It has one of the longest range BVR packages.

SU-35S has 3 radars not 1. ERBIS is its main radar and it has a smaller radar on each side of the plane. Assuming one a day the ERBIS is replaced by a next gen Iranian AESA (SU-35IR) and you will have one of the deadliest 4++ planes out there.

SU-35S would be a boon to the Iranian aviation industry. Yes, it won’t be able to compete with the stealth fighters like F-22 and F-35, but it would also be staying in Iranian air defense zones and defending the skies so survival would be greatly increased as would survival fo Iran’s air defense network.

The only better alternative would be J-31, which we don’t know Capabilities at all outside of what China says. And China hasn’t even given its satellite Pakistan J-31....so unlikely Iran could get in without a massive change in military relations.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Other things being equal, would Mig-35 or non-Russian jets in the same class fare better?

what you consider in mig-35 , that's a question . certainly a plane like Rafale or Grippen or J-10c if you consider them in class of Mig-35 fare better because they simply have better electronic

Well, I'm not informed enough about this episode (nor about why it was that the Indian air force at one point chose to pull back its Su-30's), so I can't comment.

well there is a several hundred page thread about that on the forum , but don't believe Pakistani claims that they shott down one or two su-30 they never provided any evidence , but yes Indian su-30 were kept away around 100km away from the border. and after that India went and purchased some Rafale

 

[Hack-Hook]

No doubt the latter two points - cost effectiveness and already existing basic infrastructure, represent a weighty argument for a modernization of the existing Mig-29 fleet over purchase of new Su-35 airframes (along with phasing out the Mig-29).

the problem is infrastructure to modernize mig-29 fleet is somehow rudimentary , if we want to modernize them according to our current infrastructure we must rebuilt most of the subsystem a new to make them compatible with our current equipment . that's time consuming and need lots of money .
the money better spend on our Kowsar to solve its current problems for next generation of the fighter.

 

[Hack-Hook]

if you read the aviationgeek link I provided, they discussed the video in which an SU-35's IRBIS-E radar detects and then tracks a target the size of ~F-16. The viewers of the video pointed out that IRBIS-E barely got a difficult track at around 100 KM. Detection is one thing but tracking the target to engage it is another and matters much more than detection. Russian aviation fans countered that the target being tracked is barely 0.6-0.7 m2. Even if we go by Russian claim here it means a SU-35S will track a EF-2000, Rafale, F-16 Block 60 at 100-120 km. By that time these adversaries would have in turn tracked SU-35S (~15 m2 RCS) and launched a BVR attack already with Meteor or AIM-120C/D. There goes your 85 million USD.

su-35 will track Rafale and F16 block-60+ from that distance only if the electronic warfare system were turned off , otherwise the range will probably get reduced a lot.

SU-35S has 3 radars not 1. ERBIS is its main radar and it has a smaller radar on each side of the plane. Assuming one a day the ERBIS is replaced by a next gen Iranian AESA (SU-35IR) and you will have one of the deadliest 4++ planes out there.

SU-35S would be a boon to the Iranian aviation industry. Yes, it won’t be able to compete with the stealth fighters like F-22 and F-35, but it would also be staying in Iranian air defense zones and defending the skies so survival would be greatly increased as would survival fo Iran’s air defense network.

the problem , Russia won't allow you modify it

 

[TheImmortal]

the problem , Russia won't allow you modify it

Russia allowed India to modify SU-30. anything possible if in the contract. The issue with modification is it voids possible claims against the aircraft with the maker if problems arise because of your modification.

Or else you can modify any Russian fighter. But later if there is a problem you cannot expect Russia to foot the maintenance Bill by claiming a defect.

 

[drmeson]

SU-35S aren’t constantly getting lost to SAMs in Ukraine. Where is this info coming from?

Russia is losing SU-25 which makes sense since they flow low as a CAS thus in manpad range. They have lost SU-34 bombers. Also older SU-27. Haven’t heard of them losing SU-35s if they did maybe a couple during early months of war.

SU-35 and SU-30 probably scored the most air kills against Ukraine Air Force during the dog fighting days of the war.



Why would Russians who have a conflict hotline with Israel and get tipped off to Israeli air raids try to fire at Israeli aircraft? This is Babak Taghavee propaganda? Russian SU-35 trying to shoot down a Israeli F-35? The two countries were practically strong allies until the Ukraine war.

Israel doesn’t need to fly into Syria to bomb T4 (Iranian drone base) it can fly along Jordan border to Iraqi border and drop payloads or drop payloads thru North Lebanon.

- You should realize that the Flanker family is just one aircraft with different variants being named SU-27/30/33/35. They do not have any drastic differences from each other. Their difference from eachother is just like different versions of F-15 or F-16. Ever since the war started 18-19 Flanker versions have been shot down. Almost all or atleast thick majority by Air defense action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Total_losses_2

- Israeli and Turkish AF's has encountered Russian SU-30SM/35S over Syria many times. IAF deployed F-16 or F-35 to attack T-4 AB and they were intercepted by Russian Sukhois. Russian media later claimed that they chased them back to Israeli borders. I will try to find the RT link. Similarly, they also encountered Turkish F-16 over Idlib. Both times they just failed to get a lock on these intruders.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/su-35-in-action-russian-air-force-s-elite-intercept-israeli-jets-over-syria

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...cept-turkish-f-16s-over-syria-s-idlib-reports

I assume you ment to say 1.5 m2 RCS and not 15 m2 RCS. RCS of SU-35S is unknown, but estimated anywhere from 1 to 3 m2 RCS with some places claiming .5 m2 RCS if RAM is used in key areas which Russians have experimented with.

This is funny at best. SU-27 has a frontal RCS of 10-15 m2. SU-27/3033/35 all have the same aerodynamics or just minute difference in the frontal structure of aircraft in SU-30MK that went to India with tiny canards. So here is my question, what happened that the more marketable SU-35S suddenly became "stealthier" without having any visible difference from the basic flanker airframe?

Some years back, a russian research group from Russian Academy of Sciences Moscow presented a RAM years back that could bring down the Flanker airframe's RCS with RAM coatings https://www.fighter-planes.com/stealth2.htm .They kept publishing papers for a decade on how to RAM coat the flankers and use plasma stealth (utopian idea) to turn them stealtheir. Not a single mention of actual problem in the large RCS of the airframe itself of the entire Flanker family. So again, how can we assume that an airframe that is known to have a RCS of 10-15 m2 suddenly fell down to 1.5 m2 ? it will be hilarious if someone is claiming that it happened Just with RAM? RAM is not a magic spray to reduce RCS, otherwise world would not be spending billions of USD in designing new airframes of 5th generation aircrafts. Why not just coat a heavy monster like F-4E/D or F-15 with RAM and there you go ... a fast and furious F-22 equivalent. This is not how RCS works. Flanker stays a flanker no matter how much RAM is applied on it. SU-35S is an upgraded SU-27. Its a capable platform but has weaker electronics and a huge RCS.

And besides applying RAM to a fighter to reduce its RCS is not exclusive to Flanker family. You can apply RAM to a 1 m2 RCS bearing F-5E/F or F-16 to bring it to Rafale/EF-2000 level 0.5-0.7 m2 RCS as well.

A comaprision with a basic SU-27. Whats the different in frontal section ?

I have my doubts that an F-16 could kill an SU-35S armed with its full BVR package first. It has one of the longest range BVR packages.

Wrong. AIM-120 C7/8 in service of (KSA, UAE, Israel, Turkey) have a range of 105 KM. AIM-120D has a range of 160 km (Saudis and Israelis might procure it). Meteor on Rafale and EF-2000 (KSA, Egypt) is rumored to have a range of 200+ KM.

... and R-77-1 on SU-30SM or SU-35S has a range of ~110 KM.

SU-35S has 3 radars not 1. ERBIS is its main radar and it has a smaller radar on each side of the plane. Assuming one a day the ERBIS is replaced by a next gen Iranian AESA (SU-35IR) and you will have one of the deadliest 4++ planes out there.

-I presented you the Russian test video above with a track at ~100 km. Not sure what else would convince you. IRBIS-E can not get a tracking lock on a small fighter like F-16, F-5E/F, FCK-1 before 100 KM. Even if the Russian user's claim is to be accepted that the target was 0.5-0.6 m2 then thats the RCS of a EF-2000, Rafale. These modern fighters would track and fire multiple BVR missiles on the giant 10-15 m2 bearing Flanker from 150+ km away and leave the area. Like I said before aircraft are electronic laboratories, it matters less which one has more powerful engines, speed or a menacing look. Electronics make the difference in modern combat.

SU-35S would be a boon to the Iranian aviation industry. Yes, it won’t be able to compete with the stealth fighters like F-22 and F-35, but it would also be staying in Iranian air defense zones and defending the skies so survival would be greatly increased as would survival fo Iran’s air defense network.

Good luck touching a Russian airplane without paying moscow and piss off your super power military ally that has a validated reputation of not allowing their modern aircrafts be opened by clients. To this day Iran has not touched their MIG's radars. The country that made an FCK-1 equivalent from scratch at home, converted its F-4E/D's into JH-7 equivalents is still flying with rusty N019 on its MIGS because of Russian mentality and you are talking about putting IEI AESA radars on backbone of RuAF itself the SU-35S.

Any Sukhoi, MIG can not be upgraded locally without Russians making money out of it. You are not dealing with fair democratic people here that will give you their top-of-the-line product to reverse engineer or modify. Nobody in this world has ever pulled any local upgrade on Russian modern weaponry ever be it SU-27, MIG-29 or anything of that sort. Thats not because capability does not exist. Its either, you pay them heavy money to own the project like how India made an exception in SU-30MK (65 USD million per aircraft) or you involve their companies. Money either way has to reach Moscow !

We will see IEI's Bayyenat-AESA very soon like we have seen IEI's Bayyenat-I on F-4E/D Dowrans and IEI's Bayyenat-II on Kowsar but I assure you we will see that radar being fitted on some future generation of Kowsar/Saegheh not on anything else. Its all logical, IRIAF won't sacrifice the upgraded AWG-9+ in F-14AM that can guide Fakour-90, AIM-54+ (overhauled 30-40 units) or futue Maghsoud. The attack squadrons of F-4E/D are already flying with Bayyenat-I radar. MIG's won't get any decent indigenous upgrade. Rest of the fleet is just prop show.

The only better alternative would be J-31, which we don’t know Capabilities at all outside of what China says. And China hasn’t even given its satellite Pakistan J-31....so unlikely Iran could get in without a massive change in military relations.

How about we stay realistic.