IRIAF | News and Discussions

[eagle2007]

AmirPatriot,

Quantity is likely of little interest to Russia, since they quite recently agreed to sell just 6 Su-30SMEs to Myanmar. This is a tiny order, especially compared to previous orders of this sub-family of Flankers (Algeria, India, and Malaysia).

I believe Russia's hesitance, if the reports are true, is a real mystery. Tis the season for giving the US and her allies the proverbial finger and yet, the Russians supposedly offer Iran one of the cheapest, least capable Flanker model? Russia often prides itself with the idea that they won't move to upset a region's balance of power, but in a time when the Saudis are importing 84 new-built F-15SAs (the most capable Eagle ever) and have now reportedly signed a new order of Eurofighter Typhoons, isn't it high time the Russians cash in and do a little re-balancing? The delivery of the S-300s is trivial given the history of the deal itself and the relatively small number of systems. Either the Russians are diligently holding the timeline of the nuclear agreement or something else is in play between the two nations.

 

[Navigator]

I don't really buy in to B.T's claim that Russia doesn't want to sell Iran the SME because Russia is somehow concerned about Iranian actions in the region. Going off his Twitter, it seems all he does are political rants now.

BTW, there even B.T. wrote that there are no problems with the Su-30SME, all about Su-35.

https://twitter.com/x/status/893084046724648962

However, I repeat that all the info from B.T. there looks completely untrustworthy, as he there assured that Russia was ready to deliverу the Su-27SM3 in the past year, in violation of the existing UN sanctions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/893169038708355074

 

[Muhammed45]

BTW, there even B.T. wrote that there are no problems with the Su-30SME, all about Su-35.

https://twitter.com/x/status/893084046724648962

However, I repeat that all the info from B.T. there looks completely untrustworthy, as he there assured that Russia was ready to deliverу the Su-27SM3 in the past year, in violation of the existing UN sanctions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/893169038708355074

The problem with SU 27 SM3 is that it's radar has no superiority to AN/AWG9 and Russia has no newly built SU 27 series, and its production line doesn't exist anymore. The few remaining Tomcats are worth of investing in upgrading and modification compared to SU 27.

Even if there was delivery of SU 30, a single seat hunter is still needed. Name it SU 35.

 

[Navigator]

The problem with SU 27 SM3 is that it's radar has no superiority to AN/AWG9 and Russia has no newly built SU 27 series, and its production line doesn't exist anymore. The few remaining Tomcats are worth of investing in upgrading and modification compared to SU 27.
Even if there was delivery of SU 30, a single seat hunter is still needed. Name it SU 35.

Yes, but I think that 24-48 Su-30SME as universal multi-role fighter could be an excellent initial purchase for Iran, immediately after the end of UN sanctions in 2020. There anyway Iranian airforce need in practically complete modernisation, but the level of Iranian military spending will not allow to simultaneously buy everything at once.

 

[Muhammed45]

Yes, but I think that 24-48 Su-30SME as universal multi-role fighter could be an excellent initial purchase for Iran, immediately after the end of UN sanctions in 2020. There anyway Iranian airforce need in practically complete modernisation, but the level of Iranian military spending will not allow to simultaneously buy everything at once.

True

Some of our friends are suggesting Chinese made aircrafts specifically J family. I am sure that China has had huge progress in aviation industry, but obviously the SU 30 SM non export version is still superior to J 20. Not undermining Chinese industry, but fact is fact even if it's bitter. While having J 20 mass production line, they bought SU 35 export version, says a lot.

American are comparing F 35 to SU 35, in Syria SU 35 went on F 22, asking for its ID lol, I have no doubt about Russian aviation industry, hopefully we will invest as much as possible to buy a reliable one not outdated useless SU 27s.

 

[Tps43]

True

Some of our friends are suggesting Chinese made aircrafts specifically J family. I am sure that China has had huge progress in aviation industry, but obviously the SU 30 SM non export version is still superior to J 20. Not undermining Chinese industry, but fact is fact even if it's bitter. While having J 20 mass production line, they bought SU 35 export version, says a lot.

American are comparing F 35 to SU 35, in Syria SU 35 went on F 22, asking for its ID lol, I have no doubt about Russian aviation industry, hopefully we will invest as much as possible to buy a reliable one not outdated useless SU 27s.

U guys cant get JH-7 JF 17 and J 10 from china nothing else.

 

[raptor22]

ALCON,

Those are just the reports of talks from last year, mostly based on reports from B.T. with only a tiny hint of Russian confirmation of the talks. Nothing new there.

Assuming all that talk last year was true (which only discussed talks, with no deals apparently signed), the MoD wanted the Su-30SME, arguably the most advanced Flanker export model, but the Russians weren't keen on it. The idea of them offering Su-27SM3 at first seems a little odd. For one, there are actually some evidence this variant are indeed new-built (various news reports referred to them as "new" vs the modernized Su-27SM/SM2) or at least could be. Regardless of whether they would have been new-built or modernized ex-RuAF stock, in terms of technology, they would have been a major step down from the Su-30SME.

The SM3 effectively mated the avionics of the Su-30MK2 to the Su-27S airframe plus new-built engines with increased thrust and reliability. So while it's a decently equipped bird, it looks rather poor compared to the PESA-equipped Su-30SM.

The confusion with the variants is understandable though. What most folks don't know is that there are two separate/competing production lines of Su-30s alone: KnAAPO-designed Su-30MK family (MKK, MK2, MKV) and Irkut-designed Su-30MKI family (MKI, MKA, MKM, SM). The Su-35 family is built by another group as well. So today, there are at least three groups of Flanker builders who are effectively independent of each other and even compete with one another but yet fall under the overall Sukhoi umbrella.

Raptor22,

...and? A random tweet from someone who is NOT the MoD or an official Russian source.

The tweet is from an Iranian F14 pilot colonel ... sure not an official one but he wasn't the only one that made such a statement ... all the sudden all of them decided to make such a false claim?
Another questions is did any f15 eagles crashed in Persian gulf recently?

 

[Muhammed45]

U guys cant get JH-7 JF 17 and J 10 from china nothing else.

Your rival is India my friend.

Indian made Su 30 Mki had bad losses against F 16s, block 3 of AESA j17 can easily counter them.

Our requirements are different and more complicated.

We want a good and reliable fighter, otherwise, not going to buy fighter, due to budget problems, prefer to invest in missiles rather than unreliable fighter jets

 

[Tps43]

Your rival is India my friend.

Indian made Su 30 Mki had bad losses against F 16s, block 3 of AESA j17 can easily counter them.

Our requirements are different and more different.

No I am answering wrt u saying that people in iran are favouring J series from china and In J series u cant get any variant of flankers btw I am in favour of u guys getting SU 35 not Su 30.

 

[Muhammed45]

No I am answering wrt u saying that people in iran are favouring J series from china and In J series u cant get any variant of flankers btw I am in favour of u guys getting SU 35 not Su 30.

Anf I wasn't talking about people in Iran, most of us are not favouring China made fighters

@VEVAK

 

[yavar]

U guys cant get JH-7 JF 17 and J 10 from china nothing else.

we don't have much interest in Chinese equipments

 

[Tps43]

we don't have much interest in Chinese equipments

So?

 

[VEVAK]

No I am answering wrt u saying that people in iran are favouring J series from china and In J series u cant get any variant of flankers btw I am in favour of u guys getting SU 35 not Su 30.

Your rival is India my friend.

Indian made Su 30 Mki had bad losses against F 16s, block 3 of AESA j17 can easily counter them.

Our requirements are different and more complicated.

We want a good and reliable fighter, otherwise, not going to buy fighter, due to budget problems, prefer to invest in missiles rather than unreliable fighter jets

True

Some of our friends are suggesting Chinese made aircrafts specifically J family. I am sure that China has had huge progress in aviation industry, but obviously the SU 30 SM non export version is still superior to J 20. Not undermining Chinese industry, but fact is fact even if it's bitter. While having J 20 mass production line, they bought SU 35 export version, says a lot.

American are comparing F 35 to SU 35, in Syria SU 35 went on F 22, asking for its ID lol, I have no doubt about Russian aviation industry, hopefully we will invest as much as possible to buy a reliable one not outdated useless SU 27s.

Due to Iran's size single engine fighters like the J-10, J-17 & F-16 will be useless to Iran! At best those fighter have a max combat radius of 500km

And yes you can potentially upgrade any of those platforms to become superior even in BVR capability to Su-30's or Su-35's but addressing their lack of range is a completely different matter as is their ability to produce electrical power that will also be limited to the max capability of one engine as appose to two
And due to their limited payload capacity & power output the potential for any future upgrades will also be limited and for Iran future upgrades in the coming decades could mean being able to put laser countermeasures on your fighter platforms

Due to Iran's size and security concerns and for Iran to have any hope of it's fighters surviving an initial attack a new fleet of Iranian fighters would by the most part have to be placed at bases that are ~200km or more inside Iranian territory (Isfahan, Shiraz, Hamedan...) because the MAIN thing that would protect Iranian fighters on the ground are your early warning systems and your fleets readiness and ability to scramble at a moments notice! NOT SAM's

So If you were to ask me I would pick 100 Iranian assembled twin seat Su-30's over 250 F-16 or J-10's any day

 

[Tps43]

Due to Iran's size single engine fighters like the J-10, J-17 & F-16 will be useless to Iran! At best those fighter have a max combat radius of 500km

And yes you can potentially upgrade any of those platforms to become superior even in BVR capability to Su-30's or Su-35's but addressing their lack of range is a completely different matter as is their ability to produce electrical power that will also be limited to the max capability of one engine as appose to two
And due to their limited payload capacity & power output the potential for any future upgrades will also be limited and for Iran future upgrades in the coming decades could mean being able to put laser countermeasures on your fighter platforms

Due to Iran's size and security concerns and for Iran to have any hope of it's fighters surviving an initial attack a new fleet of Iranian fighters would by the most part have to be placed at bases that are ~200km or more inside Iranian territory (Isfahan, Shiraz, Hamedan...) because the MAIN thing that would protect Iranian fighters on the ground are your early warning systems and your fleets readiness and ability to scramble at a moments notice! NOT SAM's

So If you were to ask me I would pick 100 Iranian assembled twin seat Su-30's over 250 F-16 or J-10's any day

1 Question : What about the replacements of J 7 , F 5 , F 4 and Mirage F 1's . Economy of Iran doesnt allow to have and maintain 250 Flankers at best It may allow for 120-150 .
P.S= J 10 , JFT and F16 have combat radius of more than 500 km and F 16 + J 10 are medium multi role fighters.

Due to Iran's size single engine fighters like the J-10, J-17 & F-16 will be useless to Iran! At best those fighter have a max combat radius of 500km

And yes you can potentially upgrade any of those platforms to become superior even in BVR capability to Su-30's or Su-35's but addressing their lack of range is a completely different matter as is their ability to produce electrical power that will also be limited to the max capability of one engine as appose to two
And due to their limited payload capacity & power output the potential for any future upgrades will also be limited and for Iran future upgrades in the coming decades could mean being able to put laser countermeasures on your fighter platforms

Due to Iran's size and security concerns and for Iran to have any hope of it's fighters surviving an initial attack a new fleet of Iranian fighters would by the most part have to be placed at bases that are ~200km or more inside Iranian territory (Isfahan, Shiraz, Hamedan...) because the MAIN thing that would protect Iranian fighters on the ground are your early warning systems and your fleets readiness and ability to scramble at a moments notice! NOT SAM's

So If you were to ask me I would pick 100 Iranian assembled twin seat Su-30's over 250 F-16 or J-10's any day

I suggest u guys a combo of Flankers and J 10 of 400 AC's TBH.

 

[VEVAK]

1 Question : What about the replacements of J 7 , F 5 , F 4 and Mirage F 1's . Economy of Iran doesnt allow to have and maintain 250 Flankers at best It may allow for 120-150 .
P.S= J 10 , JFT and F16 have combat radius of more than 500 km and F 16 + J 10 are medium multi role fighters.


I suggest u guys a combo of Flankers and J 10 of 400 AC's TBH.

An F-16 armed with a fuel pod and 4 1000lb bombs has a max combat radius of 550km and in that configuration it's maneuverability and speed is quit limited

Also, in terms of cost just the cost of Fuel, maintenance, pilot training & ordinance cost over time means in a conflict in terms of overall costs it would be cheaper to use Missiles like the Fatteh-110, Fatteh-313 & Zolfaghar than fighters (And that's without the actual cost of the fighter it's self!)

As for replacing Iranian F-5, J-7, F-4's & F-1's for a fighter like the J-10 for now Iran's immediate concern is a platform for intercept operations as a back up to it's Air Defense and until that happens what's the point of talking about something that's a luxury rather than a necessity!

Mass producing Fatteh-110(250km), Fatteh-313(500km) & Zolfaghar(700km) in far greater numbers in my opinion should be a greater priority than purchasing fighters like the J-10, F-16 or JF-17