Iran tests a Saegheh/Shafagh hybrid in wind tunnel !

[Rukarl]

Years ago , I translate this page to Persian for military dot IR and I suggest that we should act like Taiwanese and make light and simple fighter like this for our AirForce ....

Kowsar 88 is just like Taiwanese trainer , so maybe they decided to make something like AIDC-FC-1 ... All we can do is just waiting ...

Iran does not need a "light and simple" fighter. Iran needs a semi heavy to heavy jet fighter to replace the timeless F-14. What will a light and simple fighter do for Iran?

 

[Penguin]

Here is the F-CK-1D (for Dolly Parton?) with conformal fuel tanks

 

[OldTwilight]

Iran does not need a "light and simple" fighter. Iran needs a semi heavy to heavy jet fighter to replace the timeless F-14. What will a light and simple fighter do for Iran?

First , we need something like j17 or Tejas to replace our F5 fleet , then we need some Multi role fighter to repla ce our F4 fleet then something like F14 ...

and if you think we can jump from Zero to update version of F14 ( F22 !!!! ) without any experiment , then you are super positive guy ...

F-CK-1D was promising fighter but due some political pressure , this fighter was limited ... this fighter would become something like F18

 

[Rukarl]

First , we need something like j17 or Tejas to replace our F5 fleet , then we need some Multi role fighter to repla ce our F4 fleet then something like F14 ...

and if you think we can jump from Zero to update version of F14 ( F22 !!!! ) without any experiment , then you are super positive guy ...

F-CK-1D was promising fighter but due some political pressure , this fighter was limited ... this fighter would become something like F18

who said without any experiment? Iran has made its own F-5 and has experimented with god knows what else. Replacing F-5s should not be priority. We need something with advanced BWR capabilities.

 

[Penguin]

Iran does not need a "light and simple" fighter. Iran needs a semi heavy to heavy jet fighter to replace the timeless F-14. What will a light and simple fighter do for Iran?

A light and simple fighter can provide the numbers needed to adequately fullfil air force task, backing up and complementing larger more complexe fighter aircraft and freeing those up for dealing with key threats or crucial tasks. I'm assuming a hi-lo mix here.
It can also provide a modern design, incorporating progress made in aircraft design and engineering.
It can provide young, new airframes rather than refurbished and/or rebuilt but ultimately still old airframes.
It can provide a relatively easy to fly aircraft for less experienced pilots to become more experienced in and grow ready for the bigger aircraft.

By the way, 'light' does not necessarily mean 'simple' anymore. Simpler may mean cheaper though.

F-CK-1D was promising fighter but due some political pressure , this fighter was limited ... this fighter would become something like F18

The Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF) program for an air superiority jet fighter with multirole capability was initiated when the United States refused to sell the F-16 Fighting Falcon as well as the F-20 Tigershark (which had been developed largely to meet Taiwanese national defense needs for an advanced jet fighter to replace their older F-5 jet fighters) to Taiwan following diplomatic pressure from China. Taiwan therefore decided to develop an advanced indigenous jet fighter.

The first successful test flight took place in May, 1989. However, the ROCAF's initial order for 256 aircraft was cut to 130 in 1991, following deals for the purchase of 150 F-16 Block 20 A/B and 60 Mirage 2000-5Ei/Di with the US and France.

In 2001, it was reported that development of a new "stealth" variant with more power engines and improved fire-control system would commence that year. The upgrade would allow the IDF to carry an additional 771 kg of fuel. In addition, it includes an improved avionics suite, retrofitted electronic warfare capabilities, and new weapons systems. The landing gear has been strengthened to accommodate the additional payload and fuel, but the plan for a dielectric radar-absorbing "stealth" fuselage was dropped due to concerns over weight. As of 12/2009, 71 F-CK-1 A/B are upgrading to F-CK-1 C/D over 4 years span.

 

[OldTwilight]

Just imagine , a light fighter with moder radar and avonic that can engage in modern battle and use modern weapons ( A2A , A2G , and etc ) ...

We need something in large number to replace f5 , f7 , mirage f1, Su 25 , Mig 23/27 ...

 

[AmirPatriot]

First , we need something like j17 or Tejas to replace our F5 fleet , then we need some Multi role fighter to repla ce our F4 fleet then something like F14 ...

No.

3 different fighter types is just too much.

1 light/multirole fighter like the F-16 and a semi-heavy/heavy air superiority fighter is all we need. Build each in large numbers. You don't need something in the middle. The F-4 was only used over the F-5 because of its high payload, and it was only used over the F-14 because of its air-to-ground capabilities and large numbers. The F-14 was held back because it was so valuable.

If you have a domestic industry and a large number of aircraft, you don't need 3 types.

Mig 23/27

Iran doesn't operate those aircraft.

Su 25

The Su-25 is a completely different type of aircraft, its a flying tank. Not a light fighter.

 

[OldTwilight]

Light fighter with modern avonic and right weapons can do the job of Su 25 ...

If we can sign Su 30 deal , then Su 30 will become like this :

High/complex fighter : Su 30
Low/ simple fighter : our own indigues fighter

In future and with enough experience we can begin to develop 5th generation fighter ...

 

[AmirPatriot]

Light fighter with modern avonic and right weapons can do the job of Su 25

This is the same argument that F-35 proponents bring and it doesn't work.

Light fighters and/or armed trainers can do light CAS, but can't fill the heavy CAS (aka flying tank) role that the Su-25 does.

 

[OldTwilight]

This is the same argument that F-35 proponents bring and it doesn't work.

Light fighters and/or armed trainers can do light CAS, but can't fill the heavy CAS (aka flying tank) role that the Su-25 does.

having 150 light multirole fighter is better than having 50 trainer , 50 light multirole fighter , 50 CAS and so on ...
right now , we essentially don't have an airforce , so we just have one option ....

یک جوری حرف می زنی انگار نیروی هوایی ما هیچ مشکلی نداره و ما اونقدر پول داریم که برای هر ماموریتی یک جنگنده ی تخصصی به کار بگیریم و هزینه های تعمیر & نگهداری ، پشتیبانی و آموزش خدمه و تامین تسلیحاتی رو بپردازیم ...

این جور بحث ها و گمانه زنی هایی که شما می کنید ، سازنده نیست ...

 

[AmirPatriot]

having 150 light multirole fighter is better than having 50 trainer , 50 light multirole fighter , 50 CAS and so on ...
right now , we essentially don't have an airforce , so we just have one option ....

First of all, every air force needs a trainer, whether you like it or not. As for the CAS, I was simply pointing out that a light fighter can't do the job of an Su-25. Besides, CAS aircraft are not that expensive to operate anyway.

یک جوری حرف می زنی انگار نیروی هوایی ما هیچ مشکلی نداره

.فقط چونکه مشکل داره معنی‌ نیست که اشغال رو با اشغال جایگزینی کنیم

 

[VEVAK]

having 150 light multirole fighter is better than having 50 trainer , 50 light multirole fighter , 50 CAS and so on ...
right now , we essentially don't have an airforce , so we just have one option ....

یک جوری حرف می زنی انگار نیروی هوایی ما هیچ مشکلی نداره و ما اونقدر پول داریم که برای هر ماموریتی یک جنگنده ی تخصصی به کار بگیریم و هزینه های تعمیر & نگهداری ، پشتیبانی و آموزش خدمه و تامین تسلیحاتی رو بپردازیم ...

این جور بحث ها و گمانه زنی هایی که شما می کنید ، سازنده نیست ...

A combined force of 500 Saegheh + 500 Qaher or even 1000 Saegheh fighter would not be able to go up against 100 Su-30's or 100 F-15SA and that is a fact!!!

They will all be shot down before they could even see what hit them!!!

Asymmetric warfare in the Air against superior technology only works if you can overwhelm the enemy in such numbers that exceed the number missiles they can fire at you and even then it only works if you can catch them after they shot down vast majority of your forces

There is not Asymmetric warfare in the air!!! If you wanna take out an enemy radar you overwhelm their radar with decoys and then you'll send an overwhelming number of missle, Low RCS aircrafts & UAV's to demolish it!

People talking about F-313 being used as a asymmetric weapon are delusional

a·sym·met·ri·cal war·fare

noun: asymmetrical warfare

1. warfare involving surprise attacks by small, simply armed groups on a nation armed with modern high-tech weaponry.

When a real head on war starts 1st countries do is carry out a blitz attack on your Air Defense, air bases & missile sites!

SAM sites that lack a real Air Force behind them are sitting ducks! Even if you can overcome the jamming capability of the enemy each SAM site can only track a limited amount and target even a far lesser number of aircrafts. And that's why you blitz!! You send your missiles, decoy drones, UCAV's with fighters armed with PGM with a range greater than that of your SAM missiles and you break your way through and the 1st place you go after breaking through is towards the countries Air & Missile bases and with no real Air Force to stop you it will increase you chances of success and reduce your casualties by over 80%

A strong Air Defense network only works if you have an Air Force to back them and vice versa

Due to advances in their radars, BVR missiles, etc 10 F-15's or Su-30's can easily take on 100 F-5's

 

[OldTwilight]

Who are talking about asymmetric warfare in the air ?!

I just simply said that a light multirole fighter can do the job of Su 25 ...

By USA standard , f16 is a light ( or medium ) fighter and it can do the job of su 25 and a-10 with modern avonic and modern missiles and smart bombs very well ....
Also it can do the job in air to air battle ....

Even iraqi mirage f1 with their magics missiles could hurt our Air force ....

A light multirole fighter with modern radar and missles can be lethal ...

تفکر شما همین تفکر جاری هست که باعث شده نیروی هوایی و زمینی به این روز بیافته ....
حاصل تفکر شما اینه که ما باید هیچ کاری نکنیم و منتظر باشیم که آیا روس ها حاضر می شند چیزی رو بفروشند یا نه ....

کار رو باید از یک جایی شروع کرد ....

If you think that we are able to make something comparable with f15 or su39 or f18 or f35 ( really ?! ) in our first try and limited budget , then you are mad and I'm done with responding to your madness .....

I'm done with you vevak , Turks just have a cg picture of their T-FX and most of them talk proudly about it but you .....
You are added to my ignore list ....

 

[Oldman1]

First of all, every air force needs a trainer, whether you like it or not. As for the CAS, I was simply pointing out that a light fighter can't do the job of an Su-25. Besides, CAS aircraft are not that expensive to operate anyway.

You be surprise how many times aircraft like F-16 provides CAS. Advances in guided bombs and missiles pretty much make almost any aircraft able to provide CAS. And not to mention able to handle modern SAM systems that are a big threat to aircraft that flys too close.

 

[vizier]

Rather than two small engines in pictures here a single large engine would expose less engine parts having Y type of inlets on each side and single engine at the back like Jf 17.

The one that has single chin intake like f16 and V tail on the first page exposes engine blades as well. But not big deal if you have dsi technology acquired to create bumps at the inlet both not exposing inlet and getting rid of other heavier stuff that adjusts air flow to engine. There are pictures in the net about lockheeds experiments with f16 like in the link below.

http://aviationintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2010_f16_dsi_02_1267828237_7281.jpg