Iran: A "Role Model" For Pakistan To Get Self-Reliance in Defence

[lem34]

But remember--the actions and speeches of your nation has made the life of muslims all over the world a little more miserable than it needed to be.

I think not. AIPAC regime of America has always been an enemy of Pakistan

 

[lem34]

Why not----the current regime is pathetic----. Your politicians have made more enemies for the nation just by talking too much. You have made the life of whole of the middle east miserable---. Your country with so many resources is a bad example of how a nation ought to act.

When I hear statements made by iranian leadership---I hear them as the enemies of islam and not the friends of islam---. The empty threats that your leadership makes towards other nations under the guise of islam has created more problems for muslim nations---it has made the so called enemy stronger by the day---.

The startegy to win a war is to LULL the enemy into a false feeling of security so that he does not feel threatened and does not invest into defence----your politicians idiocy has raised the bar of stupidity to levels never seen in he history of mankind by continuously threatening to destroy a smaller nation ( which is a favourite of the world super powers )---the lack of understanding and comprehending the ideology of lying low and preparing silently tells me that there are major issues being faced internally in the country.

These threatening statements are made to divert the attention of the public away from the real problems to keep the party in power stay in power.

The second assessment is that the leadership of your political party is not loyal to iran but to their political agenda.

Now don't get me wrong---our sh-it here in pakistan---stinks as well.

But remember--the actions and speeches of your nation has made the life of muslims all over the world a little more miserable than it needed to be.

My dear Mr Mastan Khan

this is what you stated on another thread:

My good man,

Defeat is a perception-----they have already killed over a million afghans----it is not that the u s forces are backing up froma taliban on-slaught---. It is just that they are tired of killing so many people for so many years.

The results in afghanistan are not a defeat but a failure in consolidating their position due to bad decision made in selecting the alliance with cut-throats---.

If Obama wins--they might not leave---maybe another million dead muslims in afghanistan----. For feel good purposes, I have also stated that america is defeated in afg----but in reality that is not the truth----so, please don't dwell on that thought---

That's right defeat is a perception. All Muslim countries have either been bribed or bullied into compliance with American and Israeli agenda and as good as defeated. I am no theocratic state lover but you cannot but admire the balls of the Iranian leaders no matter what cost. They may lose tomorrow. But they have not lost at the moment.I thought that concepts of honour and izzat ranked high in our culture but clearly not. Maybe you have the views that you have because you live in America and there the Jews control media outlet like FOX news aka FOX lies and AIPAC has subverted democracy and brain washes and indoctrinates Americans and you are a victim of this subliminal propaganda

 

[BATMAN]

^^ Just tell me why is Iran a closed state to rest of the world but Indians?

Why not Iran allow Pakistanis to visit Iran and decide by themselves? After all your enemy Saudi Arabia is open to the whole world, incl. people like you!

How many of us have ever been to Tehran? and interviewed the people?

 

[karan21]

^^ Just tell me why is Iran a closed state to rest of the world but Indians?

Why not Iran allow Pakistanis to visit Iran and decide by themselves? After all your enemy Saudi Arabia is open to the whole world, incl. people like you!

How many of us have ever been to Tehran? and interviewed the people?

iran is quickly opening to india bcoz we treat them like partners not like a girlfriend which pakistan has been doing for the last 3 decades. u guys keep saying we love them they are our brothers. but what has pak offered iran except from love messages. our main mission is to take trade will iran to new levels and enter their market and try building stakes ther. thats why a team of economists and buisness men sent there this week. we want their oil they want money. rab ne bana dee jodii

 

[Desert Fox]

iran is quickly opening to india bcoz we treat them like partners not like a girlfriend which pakistan has been doing for the last 3 decades. u guys keep saying we love them they are our brothers. but what has pak offered iran except from love messages. our main mission is to take trade will iran to new levels and enter their market and try building stakes ther. thats why a team of economists and buisness men sent there this week. we want their oil they want money. rab ne bana dee jodii

indian, no body here cares about your india centric views because clearly it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so keep yapping nonsense blah and we will ignore you.

 

[India defense]

If Pakistan wants to follow Iran foot.....then Pakistan need to have back bone... Stop slave work for other country like US or China...stop being beggar....respect yourself to get respect from other....after all a beggar gets only money not respect.....if you think I am trolling ...then god bless

 

[MastanKhan]

My dear Mr Mastan Khan

this is what you stated on another thread:

My good man,

Defeat is a perception-----they have already killed over a million afghans----it is not that the u s forces are backing up froma taliban on-slaught---. It is just that they are tired of killing so many people for so many years.

The results in afghanistan are not a defeat but a failure in consolidating their position due to bad decision made in selecting the alliance with cut-throats---.

If Obama wins--they might not leave---maybe another million dead muslims in afghanistan----. For feel good purposes, I have also stated that america is defeated in afg----but in reality that is not the truth----so, please don't dwell on that thought---

That's right defeat is a perception. All Muslim countries have either been bribed or bullied into compliance with American and Israeli agenda and as good as defeated. I am no theocratic state lover but you cannot but admire the balls of the Iranian leaders no matter what cost. They may lose tomorrow. But they have not lost at the moment.I thought that concepts of honour and izzat ranked high in our culture but clearly not. Maybe you have the views that you have because you live in America and there the Jews control media outlet like FOX news aka FOX lies and AIPAC has subverted democracy and brain washes and indoctrinates Americans and you are a victim of this subliminal propaganda

Sir,

Nations don't live for the moment----you have no clue what Honor and Izzat is---from your post I can deduce that you just go by the superfluous meaning of that word----.

Honor and Izzat is when you can walk with your head held high because you provide justice and honor and protection and livelihood and safety and security and freedom to live and freedom of speech---where women can walk freely without fear of being molested and raped and so do the boys as well---where you proved protection for the weak and hold the rich and the powerful accountable for their short comings---where you provide swift justice against the criminals regardless of whomsoever they are---rich or poor alike and make an examplary punishment for those who are in power and take advantage of their positions----those are the things that shows your HONOR and IZZAT----now what were you talking about----.

This stupidity of the iranian regiome has been the cause of death to thousands of muslims in palestine and iraq----and you want to build your palace of HONOR and IZZAT on the dead dead bodies of those muslims---.

When prophet Mohammad was in medina---and muslims were getting strong---some like your thinking---started to strut around and wanted to show their ware---that they were becoming strong---and the prophet---stopped them and told them---don't let the enemy see your preparation---don't let the enemy know how strong you have become---don't let the enemy see how strong you have become---.

It has been the standard of succesful nations to show their might when the need arises---other than that just to keep on plugging.

Where is honor and izzat in pakistan----children are molested and murdered---girls and women are raped and killed---gang raped and made to walk naked on the streets---gang raped on the orders of jirga---young men of well off families stealing and looting at gun point---.

Pakistan is a godless nation---where there is no honor and izzat---they have no conept of honor and izzat left in them----.

The words honor and izzat are like the statues of Budha---carved on the mountain side----somebody visits them sometimes to remind them of the times of the past---.

Wake up young pakistanis----if this is your idea of izzat and honor ---then there is forever doom written in your destiny---.

 

[MastanKhan]

The Bomb: Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan

Published: January 22, 2012

Once upon a time Iran was Pakistan’s close ally — probably its closest one. In 1947, Iran was the first to recognise the newly independent Pakistan. In the 1965 war with India, Pakistani fighter jets flew to Iranian bases in Zahedan and Mehrabad for protection and refuelling. Both countries were members of the US-led Seato and Cento defence pacts, Iran opened wide its universities to Pakistani students, and the Shah of Iran was considered Pakistan’s great friend and benefactor. Sometime around 1960, thousands of flag-waving school children lined the streets of Karachi to greet him. I was one of them.

The friendship has soured, replaced by low-level hostility and suspicion. In 1979, Ayatollah Khomenei’s Islamic revolution, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, set major realignments in motion. As Iran exited the US orbit, Pakistan joined the Americans to fight the Soviets. With Saudi money, they together created and armed the hyper-religious Pashtun mujahideen. Iran too supported the mujahideen — but those of the Tajik Northern Alliance. But as religion assumed centrality in matters of state in both Pakistan and Iran, doctrinal rifts widened.

These rifts are likely to widen as the US prepares for its withdrawal from Afghanistan. Iranians cannot forget that in 1996, following the Soviet pullout from Afghanistan, the Taliban took over Kabul and began a selective killing of Shias. This was followed by a massacre of more than 5,000 Shias in Bamiyan province. Iran soon amassed 300,000 troops at the Afghan border and threatened to attack the Pakistan-supported Taliban government. Today, Iran accuses Pakistan of harbouring terrorist anti-Iran groups like Jundullah on its soil and freely allowing Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and its associates to ravage Pakistan’s Shia minority. Symptomatic of the grassroot-level change, Farsi is no longer taught in Pakistani schools.

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia’s footprint in Pakistan has grown steadily since the early 1970s. Pakistani leaders, political and military, frequently travel to the Kingdom to pay homage or seek refuge. The dependency on Saudi money grew. After India had tested its Bomb in May 1998 and Pakistan was mulling over the appropriate response, the Kingdom’s grant of 50,000 barrels of free oil a day helped Pakistan decide in favour of a tit-for-tat response and cushioned the impact of sanctions subsequently imposed by the US and Europe. The Saudi defence minister, Prince Sultan, was a VIP guest at Kahuta, where he toured its nuclear and missile facilities just before the tests. Years earlier Benazir Bhutto, the then serving prime minister, had been denied entry.

The quid pro quo for the Kingdom’s oil largesse has been soldiers, airmen, and military expertise. Saudi officers are trained at Pakistan’s national defence colleges. The Pakistan Air Force, with a high degree of professional training, helped create the Royal Saudi Air Force and Pakistani pilots flew combat missions against South Yemen in the 1970s. Saudi Arabia is said to have purchased ballistic missiles produced in Pakistan.

So what happens if Iran goes nuclear, and Saudi Arabia wants to follow?

For all its wealth, Saudi Arabia does not have the technical and scientific base to create a nuclear infrastructure. Too weak to defend itself and too rich to be left alone, the country has always been surrounded by those who eye its wealth. It has many universities staffed by highly paid expatriates and tens of thousands of Saudi students have been sent to universities overseas. But because of an ideological attitude unsuited to the acquisition of modern scientific skills, there has been little success in producing a significant number of accomplished Saudi engineers and scientists.

Perforce, Saudi Arabia will turn to Pakistan for nuclear help. This does not mean outright transfer of nuclear weapons by Pakistan to Saudi Arabia. One cannot put credence on rumours that the Saudis have purchased nuclear warheads stocked at Kamra air force base, to be flown out at the opportune time. Surely, this would certainly lead to extreme reaction from the US and Europe, with no support offered by China or Russia. Moreover, even if a few weapons were smuggled out, Saudi Arabia could not claim to have them. Thus they could not serve as a nuclear deterrent.

Instead, the Kingdom’s route to nuclear weapons is likely to be circuitous, beginning with the acquisition of nuclear reactors for electricity generation. The spent fuel from reactors can be processed for plutonium. Like Iran, it will have to find creative ways by which to skirt around the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty – which forbids reprocessing spent fuel. But it doubtless takes heart from the fact that the US forgave India for its nuclear testing in 1998, and eventually ended rewarding it with a nuclear deal. Saudi Arabia had unwillingly signed on to the NPT in 1988. Its position then was that it would be happy to sign up but only if Israel did the same. That, of course, never happened. But Saudi Arabia had no option but to follow the US diktat.

The Kingdom’s first steps towards making nuclear weapons are being contemplated. In June 2011, it said that 16 nuclear reactors were to be built over the next 20 years at a cost of more than $300 billion, each reactor costing around $7 billion. Arrangements are being made to offer the project for international bidding and the winning company should “satisfy the Kingdom’s needs for modern technology”. To create, run and maintain the resulting nuclear infrastructure will require importing large numbers of technical workers. Some will be brought over from western countries, as well as Russia and former Soviet Union countries.

But Saudi Arabia will likely find engineering and scientific skills from Pakistan particularly desirable. Since many are Sunni Muslims, the Pakistanis would presumably be sympathetic with the Kingdom’s larger goals. Having been in the business of producing nuclear weapons for nearly 30 years under difficult circumstances, they would also be familiar with supplier chains for hard-to-get items needed in a weapons programme. And because salaries in Saudi Arabia far exceed those in Pakistan, many qualified people could well ask for leave from their parent institutions at the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, Kahuta Research Laboratories, and National Development Complex.

Good sense dictates that Iran stops its pursuit of the Bomb. But whether it does or not, Pakistan should stay out of the Iran-Saudi nuclear rivalry. Over and above all this, Israel and the United States must stop threatening to bomb Iran.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 23rd, 2012

Sir,

And in the 1965 war---iran had its forces close to the pakistani border---waiting for pakistan to fall to indian army---so the irany army to move into baluchistan and take it over as much as it could----.

 

[The SC]

A bunch of students lay siege to US Embassy and despite orders from the President Bani Sadr & Foreign Minister Qutub Zadeh, refused to quit and you call sanctions illegal!

Where is the international law of diplomatic immunity? Are you aware that at the time of Hudabia, there was a rumour that Hazrat Osman (RA), sent as spokesman to the Mecca, was killed? Holy Prophet (PBUH) and the Muslims were ready to attack Mecca.

Chengez Khan attacked Iran and destroyed the whole country killing about third of the population because the Khwarizmi Shan killed his envoys! Suppose Indians do the same to Pakistani High Commission staff in New Delhi. You live in Canada and give sanction to imprisonment of the diplomatic staff?

Iran is bursting to seem with oil and gas reserves, why does she need nuclear power if not to develop nuclear bomb? Only country that attacked Iran was Iraq, another Muslim country. Now Iraq is no longer a threat. Pakistan has India as a nuclear neighbour thus there is some justification. Why does Iran need nuclear bomb?

You have forgotten the hanging Judge Ayatollah Khalkhali who sent thousands to the gallows after a summary trial. Both the Bani Sadr and Qutub Zadeh were also killed for having differing view to the Khomeini even though they were the ones who were responsible for getting Khomeini into Iran.

I have posted what I noticed myself, however you accuse me of lying! Naturally everyone has right to his/her opinion, it makes no difference whether you agree with my views or not. What matters is what is good for the people of Iran

In my opinion, pursuing policies which hurt ordinary man on the street is suicidal; but that is what Mullah Regime in any country does. They follow the dogma blindly regardless of the consequences. Rulers don’t suffer, only the common man suffers.

Most of the people like Iran only because they are saying no to the US. I admire this myself but is this stance helping Iranian people in any way? I have seen the consequences of the wrong policies adopted by the post revolution regimes and also because Iran is very friendly with India; as a Pakistani I am against making Iran my role model.

I like Irani people and their language, I just dont like any regime run by the theocracy. In Iran a non elected council of guardians controls an elected parliament!! And you want to make Iran role model for Pakistan! But who cares for the truth. Despite living in Canada you appear to be very impressed by the Iran. You are welcome to make Iran your role model and go live there.

You are blaming a bunch of students for a diplomatic skirmish, but the facts are beyond diplomacy, those are the real sons of the Iranian people who expressed their will not to have any relationship with the US whatsoever, and they have killed no one as far as I know!!!
Do you remember SAVAC !!! So much for defending ordinary people Mr.
But the sanctions I am talking about are UNSC sanctions based on speculations and falsehood not the US sanctions.

Nuclear energy wise, as you know very well, the oil and gaz reserves of any country are not eternal, so you do have to give the benefit of the doubt to Iran for its long term strategy. There are also many nations with advanced nuclear technologies but not wishing to develop the atomic bomb, or can assemble it in a blink of an eye if need be.

An ayatollah is not a mullah per se, these are scholars in islamic law and scientific fields also, and integral people, a quality which is very seldom found in secular leaders.

For the rest of what you are saying, the counter proof is the latest elections, get real please, your rhetoric is old and false.
Real Islam accepts only theocracy to rule by the shora, and believe me I am far from being fanatic, this is just the facts of Islam and it clashes head on with the hypocrisy of the west ruled by "secularists" controlled by the Judeo christian clergy.

I think once Pakistani people realise this they will ask for an Iran look and act like government, with some-things more suited to the Pakistani mentality and culture, but it won't be far from the Iranian model at all.

I knew people from the Shah family, and people close to ayatollah khomeini, So "impressed" is not the right word to use, this is first hand knowledge of things.

Besides, Canadians to whom this may concern won't let me go there, and believe me I did try.
I am not a hypocrite I am as genuine as you can imagine in your conscious and subconscious mind, all what you are writing is twisted to suit your own likings, obviously , you do not like the truth, you live in the past and in a state of denial.

Those regimes and role models(western) you are defending are the same ones making Pakistani people (and ordinary people all over the Muslim world) suffer dearly in their everyday lives, you obviously do not like the common people, or maybe yours is just a case of a self inflated ego trying to fix a puzzle with different parts from different puzzles.

 

[kollang]

Sir,

And in the 1965 war---iran had its forces close to the pakistani border---waiting for pakistan to fall to indian army---so the irany army to move into baluchistan and take it over as much as it could----.

this is BS
we gave you many f-86 fighters in that period.

 

[lem34]

this is BS
we gave you many f-86 fighters in that period.

Later today I will address Mr Mastan's points. In my opinion there are some misguided on this forum. They do not see that after the Iranian revolution the Saudis started to bribe our leaders in Pakistan to go against Iranian govt because Al Sauds were scared that they would be overthrown by their own people. They did not care that they were putting Muslims against Muslims

In Iran's position it was natural that Iran under the circumstances go towards India. But you know no matter what our stupid leaders do Americans, Indians, Israelis can never be true allies of any Muslim country. They believe in Hindutva and Zionism two philosophies that are racist and an impediment to peace

 

[lem34]

^^ Just tell me why is Iran a closed state to rest of the world but Indians?

Why not Iran allow Pakistanis to visit Iran and decide by themselves? After all your enemy Saudi Arabia is open to the whole world, incl. people like you!

How many of us have ever been to Tehran? and interviewed the people?

I hope I will be allowed a little latitude to go off topic as others have done on here because in all these Iranian threads we get some Saudi/Wahhabi trolls spoiling the thread.Let me tell you the trouble with the Islamic world these days. And allow me to take Pakistan as the example. Firstly we are a country that has a significant I think it was 30% of the population who are Shias. Until the recent past we have never had major issues and we have co habited as Muslims without any problem. I am Sunni I have close friends who are Shias. Even Zardari our president is a Shia. Not that I like him on the contrary I hate him but that's cos he is a thief not because he is a shia.

Our relations with Iran until the revolution were better than most. For example at times of war in 1965 as I said earlier our jets were allowed to refuel in Iranian bases. That is the act of friends. They also sold/gave as some jets.

After the Iranian revolution the ugly family that rules Saudi Arabia, friends of America and Zionist who don't give a monkeys for Muslims anywhere. The ones who are only concerned with their own survival saw this as a threat. A revolution. People being allowed to choose the govnt. This could not be allowed. They systematically bribed and paid people in the Muslim world under the guise of giving charity built mosques and madrassas all around the world not just in Pakistan but UK they used this to spread their their venom against Iranians not cos they are shias or anything like that but purely because they were scared that they would be overthrown. Down to this one familly who has chosen in my opinion to split us to save their own rule. Some off us maybe in doubt whether Saudis are our freinds or not. What there is no doubt about is that America, Israel are our enemies. You need proof? Look at the innocent dead Muslims aka as collateral damage of the disproportionate attacks on our lands. Well Saudis are American freinds and actually dare not move from American diktat. Whilst House of Al Saud is proxy for Americans and Israelis we have no choice but have nothing to do with them. The Iranians on the other hand may not be angels but the actions they take are their actions not dictaed to by known Muslim haters.

What is Iran’s crime-They will not bow to that AIPAC sponsered American regime.

In that context we will never be free until all our countries do what they think best for us rather than subjugating our interests to Zionists and Jews. The Iranian regime may not be perfect. In fact they are not. I personally am not into theocratic regimes but in the context of not following American diktat we have to take them as a role model.

 

[kollang]

guys im very sorry.pordon me.

 

[MastanKhan]

guys im very sorry.pordon me.

Hi,

For what---for expressing yourself----it is allowed in this place---and there was nothing wrong with the iranian army at the border to take over baluchistan. The f86 were given / sold possibly late 60's early 70's if I am not wrong.

 

[IranZamin]

North Korea is also "self-reliant". But at the expense of starving its people. Iran can be self-reliant, without starving its people, because of its oil wealth. Pakistan needs a deep source of foreign exchange if it is to duplicate Iran's approach. How would Pakistan fund the growth of an industry that does not feed, cloth, shelter, educate, cure, entertain or transport its people?

Dont spread BS around. North korea can not feed its own soldiers how the hell are they self reliant ? self reliant on what ?