International Holocaust Remembrance Day thread

[Steakhouse]

I heard Pakistani diplomats anguish about it back in 1971. The orders given the Army were terrible...whatever Pakistan was meant to be this isn't it...do I betray my oath of loyalty and join the Bangladeshi cause or not?

Did you ever think about what it means to act upon conscience rather than blow stuff off as mere history happening to somebody else? These diplomats did. They could have ignored events thousands of miles away and kept their nose to the grindstone. Instead they threw in their lot with a new nation, thus breaking their solemn loyalty oath as well as losing all seniority and pension pay. I doubt you've ever heard about such things, have you? Nazi Germans faced similar issues, though, and studying the Holocaust provides a useful analogy - and how to teach societies so they don't promote such massive state-sponsored murders again.

How Israel bombed Palestine school killed many children and called it a collateral damage different from what happen to Bangladesh suffer from the civil war?

 

[Pakistani E]

I heard Pakistani diplomats anguish about it back in 1971. The orders given the Army were terrible...whatever Pakistan was meant to be this isn't it...do I betray my oath of loyalty and join the Bangladeshi cause or not?

Did you ever think about what it means to act upon conscience rather than blow stuff off as mere history happening to somebody else? These diplomats did. They could have ignored events thousands of miles away and kept their nose to the grindstone. Instead they threw in their lot with a new nation, thus breaking their solemn loyalty oath as well as losing all seniority and pension pay. I doubt you've ever heard about such things, have you? Nazi Germans faced similar issues, though, and studying the Holocaust provides a useful analogy - and how to teach societies so they don't promote such massive state-sponsored murders again.

I already stated that Pakistan should concentrate on its own history. That would logically mean that the 1971 war is also studied. You have not seen my other posts about the atrocities committed by some government forces, I know what happen. I had relatives serving at that time. So Yeah, Pakistan should teach about the atrocities committed in 1971.

The lessons from holocaust should be taught in America and Europe again though. The lessons from 1971 war should be taught in Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

The lessons from holocaust should be taught in America and Europe again though. The lessons from 1971 war should be taught in Pakistan.

You might want to read the USHMM excerpt, "Why teach about the Holocaust?" on the previous page.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

When will there be an "international holocaust remembrance day" for the Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians or Libyans?

 

[TankMan]

RIP to the victims of the holocaust.

I happened to watch Schindler's List recently, it's a good film to watch and a decent portrayal of the holocaust, I'd recommend it. (Not to be watched around children though, for obvious reasons)

 

[p4kistan]

When will there be an "international holocaust remembrance day" for the Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians or Libyans?

Jewish blood is worth more than any other blood. Holocaust happened, people died, a sad affair. END OF STORY

If you want to carry on the story don't forget to include all other atrocities across the world throughout history, what makes the holocaust so special?

NAZIS, ZIONAZIS HAVE A LOT IN COMMON.

Before anyone cries BS ANTI SEMITISM i'd like to clarify that i'm probably more semite than those throwing the anti semitism card.

ANTI ZIONISM DOES NOT= ANTI SEMITISM

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Is there a holocaust museum for Russians killed by the Bolshevik jews---.

 

[That Guy]

I heard Pakistani diplomats anguish about it back in 1971. The orders given the Army were terrible...whatever Pakistan was meant to be this isn't it...do I betray my oath of loyalty and join the Bangladeshi cause or not?

Did you ever think about what it means to act upon conscience rather than blow stuff off as mere history happening to somebody else? These diplomats did. They could have ignored events thousands of miles away and kept their nose to the grindstone. Instead they threw in their lot with a new nation, thus breaking their solemn loyalty oath as well as losing all seniority and pension pay. I doubt you've ever heard about such things, have you? Nazi Germans faced similar issues, though, and studying the Holocaust provides a useful analogy - and how to teach societies so they don't promote such massive state-sponsored murders again.

If that's the case, then there are better cases to study, such as Mao Zedong's so called cultural revolution. State sponsored murder that made Hitler look like a cartoon villain.

Don't get me wrong, the holocaust was a massive tragedy, which has led to other tragedies and consequences we can feel to this day. Having said that, if we were to follow your logic, there are better examples.

As for 71, this topic has been debated to death, so I'm not going to bother talking about it any longer.

 

[Desert Fox]

When will israel teach about Churchill's genocide of 4 million indians during the Bengal Famine??

Oh, wait, Israelis build statues in his memory:

Bust of Winston Churchill, Israel's 'forgotten friend,' unveiled in Jerusalem - National - Israel News | Haaretz

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

When will israel teach about Churchill's genocide of 4 million indians during the Bengal Famine??

Oh, wait, Israelis build statues in his memory:

Bust of Winston Churchill, Israel's 'forgotten friend,' unveiled in Jerusalem - National - Israel News | Haaretz

View attachment 187271​

Who cares about indians or bengalis... or jews...

I heard Pakistani diplomats anguish about it back in 1971. The orders given the Army were terrible...whatever Pakistan was meant to be this isn't it...do I betray my oath of loyalty and join the Bangladeshi cause or not?

Did you ever think about what it means to act upon conscience rather than blow stuff off as mere history happening to somebody else? These diplomats did. They could have ignored events thousands of miles away and kept their nose to the grindstone. Instead they threw in their lot with a new nation, thus breaking their solemn loyalty oath as well as losing all seniority and pension pay. I doubt you've ever heard about such things, have you? Nazi Germans faced similar issues, though, and studying the Holocaust provides a useful analogy - and how to teach societies so they don't promote such massive state-sponsored murders again.

Did you ever hear those "diplomats" tell you to STFU?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Holocaust was a European crime, committed by Europeans, on Europeans, for European ideals. No doubt there should be a reference to the holocaust but to say that Pakistan MUST teach about the holocaust is absurd. Genocides have been committed for as long as humans have existed. Besides, we have our own history to cover before we go on a wild goose chase on European history.

Oh no, don't go speaking with logic, some people hate that. Especially the Holocaust brigade.

That's right, I said it, the holocaust brigade who misuse the holocaust to whatever ends they deem fit.

From the Amazon reviews:

...he doesn't agree with Israel, fine, neither do I. But to say jews 'use the holocaust' to propagate the same hateful stereotypes of jews always manipulating and scheming for their own benefit. He also indicates jews think they're the only victims of genocide!!! Who ever said that? I've never heard a Jew that!!! The US holocaust museum constantly speaks out and educates people on genocides all over the world, they were active in speaking out against Darfur, for instance. This creature should be ashamed of himself!!! What he's saying is no different than if he said the tragedies on American Indian reservations are just Indians making everyone feel sorry for them as an excuse to commit domestic violence or substance abuse. Or that African Americans are killing each other in the streets only to garner sympathy for slavery. He tries to make the case that jews bullied european governments for reparations but no other group has that right. who said nobody else has that right? european governments made big money off stolen jewish property. the very least they deserve is to 'bullied' into giving it back!!! he thinks palestinians have a right to bully to get their land back, doesn't he? if, say, American Indians decided to form a lobby to bully the hell out of the American government to get the proceeds of the coal and gold mining stolen from them by broken treaties, I'd be right there voting for them!!! This man lacks any human empathy for his own family and everyone else's. genocide leaves a scar in people's souls. Clearly this man doesn't know that because he doesn't possess one! Perhaps he should take his show on the road with David Duke, join the klan and get it over with.


...Too many claims in this book are false. For example, the claim that American Jewish "elites" "discovered" the Holocaust in conjunction with the 1967 war, rather than the 1948 war, plotting to amass power, is absurd, and coming from a son of survivors an obvious politically motivated calumny.
In 1948 most survivors were in limbo, often in German DP camps, kept out of Palestine by the British, and out of the US by immigration restrictions. In other words, in no position to either memorialize their lost relatives, nor lend much support to Israel. Much of their funding at the time came from the Jewish organizations which Finkelstein vilifies so much. By 1967 those very same survivors who in 1948 had been penned in DP camps, stateless and unwanted, had to a large extent immigrated to the US or Israel. While the Eichmann trials in 1961 were of great significance in reviving a buried past, the victory in 1967 helped them regain their sense of dignity.
Memorializing the many, many relatives that they had lost was a purely human impulse by those survivors that had resumed productive lives in the US, not a cynical machination by some abstract, malevolent Jewish cadre, as Finkelstein would have us believe. There is no need for wild conspiracy theories. Establishing memorials to individuals and groups who perished during conflicts is a prerogative that all nations are entitled to. Why Finkelstein judges it to be inappropriate only for European Jews escapes me.
While sarcastically dismissing the notion that the loss of several million Jews should be "sacralized" given continuous wars and bloodshed, Finkelstein seems to be equally averse to seeing the massive, amply documented Holocaust thefts from Jews - the real "Holocaust Industry" - treated as the property crime that it is. The alarm raised by Jewish organizations about improper uses of stolen Jewish money may have been rather scattershot, but perfect justice is unfortunately unattainable. This is by no means the most egregious case of bureaucratic overkill or inefficiency, if that is what it is. However, there is no question that Switzerland and many other nations - and industries - unduly benefited from the Nazi trade in Jewish lives and property, far beyond what can be quantified in abandoned Jewish bank accounts.
As to the involvement of Jewish organisations,it is important to keep in mind - and Finkelstein doesn't - that other nationals had their national governments to do the negotiating, which often got territorial concessions in addition to substantial slave labor compensation funds, such as for example Poland - a more expensive project since so many more survived!
In quibbling over the number and definition of survivors, Finkelstein as a fan of the Palestinian cause might study the definition of Palestinian - anyone who lived there for 2 years pre 1948 is forever refugee, including spouse and descendants. I also recommend he look into the funding going to the Palestinian Authority, and the origins of the millions in Arafat's and other terror leaders' private accounts.
Precise counts of Jewish survivors are virtually impossible to come by with all the wartime refugees and post-war flux of Jews attempting to resettle in Eastern Europe, most soon fleeing the new wave of Eastern European anti-Semitism expressed in murders of concentration camp survivors and looting of their property there (by the "hapless Poles", among others). Of all those Jews slated to be eliminated, those who survived are survivors of that attempt, some more fortunate than others, and are entitled to restitution of their property stolen in this act of malice and calculated greed.
I understand that there has been a raging controversy about the application of recovered funds. Whether to distribute according to need or ownership is a much discussed and vexing question, and this book adds nothing new other than hateful invective. Finkelstein obviously thinks Jewish communities in Europe ought to dissolve; others might disagree. It is to be noted that in a way the Jewish organizations have been "paying it forward", as mentioned above, funding Jewish communities during the war and survivors during its aftermath.
With his tin ear for literature as for so many other things, Finkelstein's clumsy attempt to implicate Eli Wiesel and Wilkomirski in this supposed plot - hoax! - is absurd. I suppose he would include "Austerlitz" by W.G. Sebald (a German non-Jew writing about a Jewish child survivor) as well - an excellent work of insight and empathy, qualities sorely lacking in Finkelstein.
In conclusion, with the intellectual as well as ethical obtuseness this book demonstrates behind its self-righteous tone of moral outrage, it is an unfortunate attempt to use the Holocaust and its aftermath to malign its survivors, the ultimate hoax. But then, this stuff obviously plays well.

....Finkelstein makes a lot of money suggesting that others (mainly Jews) make money "exploiting" the Holocaust. Most of my family was murdered by the Germans, some in particularly gruesome ways. All of the property of my family on both sides was lost. I have pictures of whole families (cousins) in their comfortable homes, all dead. Their homes and businesses were taken over by the citizens of Holland and Germany and Hungary. The wealth of the Jews was stolen by the very people who murdered them or their neighbors. Some people think the Holocaust was started out of greed for money. Read Ian MacMillan: Village of a Million Spirits: A Novel of the Treblinka Uprising.
Despite the fact that I have lost most of my family in the Holocaust, I have never got a penny out of it. No one paid me to write this review. Finkelstein wrote a book disparaging Goldhagen's Book: "Hitler's Willing Executioners" (which by the way was a best-seller in Germany and Goldhagen much respected) by way of respect for his father, who was a survivor. I think Finkelstein should be ashamed of himself for his bigoted and ugly theses, such as the one he espouses in this book. It is not justice to blame the victims.

Have you read the book?

Also, on a different topic, I'm sure you've heard of Raul Hilberg, what do you think of his work?

 

[gambit]

If that's the case, then there are better cases to study, such as Mao Zedong's so called cultural revolution. State sponsored murder that made Hitler look like a cartoon villain.

Don't get me wrong, the holocaust was a massive tragedy, which has led to other tragedies and consequences we can feel to this day. Having said that, if we were to follow your logic, there are better examples.

As for 71, this topic has been debated to death, so I'm not going to bother talking about it any longer.

What make the Holocaust different is that the Holocaust was transnational in scope.

The proper definition of a 'nation' is devoid of political borders. It means a people that shares common bonds such as language, religion, history, etc.

Hitler tried to convince all the nations of the world, including those who never had any dealings with Jews, that it was humanity's best interests to get rid of Jews altogether. Hitler wanted individual persecutions of Jews, not just state sponsored persecutions of Jews. For countries that never had any dealings with Jews, Hitler wanted preemption, not merely reactions, regarding Jews.

In scale, yes, Mao's Cultural Revolution and The Great Leap Forward were truly horrific and the amount of Chinese killed were far greater than the amount of Jews and assorted minorities killed under the Holocaust. But Mao was not trying to export the ideas of the Cultural Revolution and The Great Leap Forward outside of Chinese borders.

 

[Desert Fox]

Who cares about indians or bengalis... or jews...

I'm only pointing out the hypocrisy here. Why should Jews receive special attention because of the so called 6 million Jews who were allegedly "gassed" (of which there is no proof) meanwhile millions of other people have suffered worse fates, in some cases at the hands of Jewish mass murderers, but they don't receive similar attention nor do they seek sympathy from the world and demand free money/"reparations".

Stalin's Jews- A Rare Look At The Most Ruthless Mass Murderers In History

Lazar Kaganovich, AKA 'The Butcher of Ukraine',
Stalin's Jewish Commissar and Brother in Law. Responsible
for enforcing forced collectivization of peasants crops leading to
mass starvation from artificial famine:

Genrikh Yagoda, Stalin's Chief of NKVD from 1934-1936, also a Jew, played an
equally instrumental role in the artificial famines of the Ukraine resulting in
mass starvation and deaths of millions:

​

 

[gslv mk3]

Why should Jews receive special attention because of the so called 6 million Jews who were allegedly "gassed"

Non sense.

 

[Koovie]

Non sense.

Look at his profile picture. He is using the symbol of the very same organization which is responsible for some of the worst imaginable crimes in human history.

Of course he is not talking with any sense...