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Indonesia wants firms relocating from China. Why are so few coming?

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Indonesian workers r unproductive. Lazy and demanding

Absolutely correct
At least I didn't hear that they ( ID workers) burn up SG industrial park and beat up anyone "look like " Cnese like VN workers yet :cool:

Maybe no FTA wt EU make Luxshare chose VN and pay VN workers 430 usd instead of ID.
 
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/econ...-firms-relocating-china-why-are-so-few-coming

Indonesia has set up a task force to attract businesses leaving China and is in talks with the US government to help American firms make the move – but there have been few takers, with analysts saying there are still obstacles to doing business there.

Earlier this week, President Joko Widodo announced that seven companies, including South Korea’s LG and Japan’s Panasonic, had confirmed their relocation to Indonesia. Just one firm from the United States, light product maker Alpan, said it was moving there from China, according to The Jakarta Post.

Indonesia is actively looking to court investment as it braces for a widely forecast contraction in its gross domestic product. Southeast Asia’s largest economy, which is home to 270 million people, has seen its steady GDP growth upended by trade and supply chain disruptions due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

To this end, a task force set up by Indonesia’s Investment Coordinating Board (BKPM) to attract external investment is reportedly in talks with American, Japanese and South Korean firms over their relocation to industrial zones being developed in Central Java.

The Jakarta Post quoted Widodo as saying 17 more companies were looking to open facilities in Indonesia, with data from BKPM showing these firms will bring in total investment of US$37 billion and employ 112,000 people.

However, the president has repeatedly lamented Indonesia’s failure to woo companies that have since relocated to the likes of Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines. Analysts say red tape, labour unrest, unproductive workers, lack of infrastructure and systemic corruption are among the obstacles Indonesia must overcome to make itself more attractive to such companies.

“We welcome any move to increase US investment in Indonesia, but the country still needs greater openness and structural reforms to compete with its neighbours for US companies to relocate in greater numbers,” said Lin Neumann, managing director of the American Chamber of Commerce in Indonesia.

Neumann said it would “help if most restrictions in the negative investment list are done away with”, referring to a government policy barring or restricting foreign investment in specific sectors and subsectors, including telecommunications towers and alcohol distribution.

Luhut Pandjaitan, Indonesia’s coordinating minister for maritime affairs and investment, earlier this month said Jakarta was in talks with Washington over the potential relocation of US firms, after President Widodo raised the idea during a phone call with US President Donald Trump.

Pandjaitan’s office has not replied to requests for comment on Indonesia’s progress in nailing down deals with American companies.

In its ease of doing business rankings for this year, the World Bank put Indonesia at No 73, well behind neighbours Singapore (2), Malaysia (12) and Thailand (21), and just behind Vietnam (70). China came in at No 31.

Various surveys also indicate that Indonesia’s manufacturing productivity is worse than its most competitive Southeast Asian neighbours, if not all of them.

“Inefficiencies abound due to state ownership, regulatory interference, underskilled workers and persistent transport bottlenecks. Institutional dysfunctions have inhibited investment, especially into manufacturing for export,” said Kevin O’Rourke, a long-time Indonesia analyst.

But while Indonesia has issues to overcome, some analysts say it remains in the picture for manufacturing relocations and new investment.

A spokesperson for the US International Development Finance Corporation (DFC) – whose chief executive Adam Boehler in January met Widodo to discuss infrastructure development potentially worth billions of dollars – said Indonesia’s “strong and growing domestic economy make it an attractive market for investment”.

Alexander Feldman, chairman of the US-Asean Business Council, said he had heard movement of firms to Indonesia from China was “under consideration”. “Certainly, it is happening in Vietnam and in Thailand, and Indonesia is talked about in the same vein,” he said.

Rajiv Biswas, Asia-Pacific chief economist at IHS Markit in Singapore, said continuing US-China trade tensions would likely be a further driver of the reconfiguration of supply chains that began a decade ago, benefiting Southeast Asian manufacturing hubs including Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines and Myanmar.

“The advantages that Indonesia can offer as a manufacturing hub are particularly around its large domestic consumer market. Indonesia is expected to be one of the world’s fastest-growing emerging markets over the next decade, offering revenue growth opportunities for a wide range of multinationals across many sectors of manufacturing and services,” he said.

“With many multinationals seeking to diversify their Asian manufacturing supply chain beyond mainland China, Indonesia does have the additional advantages of relatively low-cost manufacturing wages and a large labour force, for firms looking to manufacture for the Indonesian domestic consumer market.”

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The analysis cites red tape, systemic corruption and a lack of infrastructure as obstacles for Indonesia. I think they also neglected to mention the growing sectarian pro-terror pro-ISIS sentiment in the population. We can even see it among some posters on this forum. How can a investor have business confidence if they are being extorted to donate funds to ISIS or else risk seeing their factory bombed?
While I agree that redtape, lack of labour productivity, and infrastructure woes* . I would just like to point out that favtory bombings hv never happened, and that extortion is not done by ISIS either. Pro-ISIS sentiment has actually been falling, as you can see from lack of follow up to the Marawi Incident by Indonesian ISIS sympathizers.

Indonesia has a lot of factual problems. Lets not use bullsh*t ones now shall we.

(*while we like to brag that Indonesia has better infra than vietnam, note that many areas outside of java, which is less than 20% of total landmass, hv worse infrastructure than vietnam average by far)


Islands country like Indonesia is nightmare for logistics
I think it's a plus as long as they can build enough ports. They have direct access to the sea and trade with the rest of the world without expensive logistics.

Most islands are not inhabited anyway. The majority of the population is concentrated in Java Island and Sumatra Island.

True, water can both unite and divide. One challenge we've been facing is that for a maritime trade route to be profitable, there needs to be trade back and forth from the two nodes. Right now often times trade ships leave Java/Sumatra full and return with barely anything in it.

So in the end it all goes back to ensuring equitable development, even in the less populated Islands. If not they shall always be basket cases

_______________

Updating this thread since Indonesia has passed the Omnibus Law, which can potentially improve conditions greatly.

This law has clarified and improved regulation on land procurement, electricity supply, firing, outsourcing, minimum wage, environment standards, and foreign workforce requirements.

It has also provided a clear heirarchy of command that will help solve central-local gov disputes, especially in taxation and levies.

While the law is out, there are still 40 government regulations that are derived from the law currently being formulated. It will be very interesting to see which way these regulations go when they are published. Considering the huge huge amiunt of public pressure, it will definitely be a tossup.
 
While I agree that redtape, lack of labour productivity, and infrastructure woes* . I would just like to point out that favtory bombings hv never happened, and that extortion is not done by ISIS either. Pro-ISIS sentiment has actually been falling, as you can see from lack of follow up to the Marawi Incident by Indonesian ISIS sympathizers.

Indonesia has a lot of factual problems. Lets not use bullsh*t ones now shall we.

(*while we like to brag that Indonesia has better infra than vietnam, note that many areas outside of java, which is less than 20% of total landmass, hv worse infrastructure than vietnam average by far)





True, water can both unite and divide. One challenge we've been facing is that for a maritime trade route to be profitable, there needs to be trade back and forth from the two nodes. Right now often times trade ships leave Java/Sumatra full and return with barely anything in it.

So in the end it all goes back to ensuring equitable development, even in the less populated Islands. If not they shall always be basket cases

_______________

Updating this thread since Indonesia has passed the Omnibus Law, which can potentially improve conditions greatly.

This law has clarified and improved regulation on land procurement, electricity supply, firing, outsourcing, minimum wage, environment standards, and foreign workforce requirements.

It has also provided a clear heirarchy of command that will help solve central-local gov disputes, especially in taxation and levies.

While the law is out, there are still 40 government regulations that are derived from the law currently being formulated. It will be very interesting to see which way these regulations go when they are published. Considering the huge huge amiunt of public pressure, it will definitely be a tossup.
How can they attractt foreign investment when they have frequent riots?

 
How can they attractt foreign investment when they have frequent riots?


Those are happened but still the damage is very minimum and contained in specific areas. Though two decades ago, more serious disturbance happened more frequently
 
How can they attractt foreign investment when they have frequent riots?


So far Indonesian people according to my opinion are wiser than people from Thailand (Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt demonstration), Hongkong, etc in practicing democracy. The demonstration is not frequent but only happen due to important changes like during anti corruption law changes some times ago, accusition from opposition party that the election is cheated, and now this Omnibus Law.

They tend to stop protesting after 2-3 weeks and let Constitutional Court to decide to solve the dispute on election and new/old law that they oppose. We dont know what will happen with this new demonstration but we will see....I hope situation gets to normal soon, just like what happen with our previous big demonstrations.

If Indonesia can once again successful to solve their own problem then the world will applause our people in practicing our democracy, It then shows that our democracy is able to produce better leader each time we do election who dont rely on populism to win the election and retain his/her power and also shows that we have wise and knowledgeable citizens that understand nation problem and hold on the rule of the game where in the end they will let constitutional court to decide, what ever the result may become they should accept it.

Talking about current demonstration. There is intense campaign and debate from both side currently. Like what happen with my FB circle, in the beginning people are so blind about the law and keep posting information and status that support the protestor. But me and my friends who understand about the need for Indonesia to issue Omnibus Law also give more information about the reason behind the Omnibus Law using our social media account. And Today I would say, so few people in my FB circle who are still criticizing the law. This is because democracy needs active participation of the people in order to produce efficient system.
 
Those are happened but still the damage is very minimum and contained in specific areas. Though two decades ago, more serious disturbance happened more frequently
Investor do not like such things happened be it small or big. It is no good for their investment.

They will stick with China even it may cost them abit more.
So far Indonesian people according to my opinion are wiser than people from Thailand (Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt demonstration), Hongkong, etc in practicing democracy. The demonstration is not frequent but only happen due to important changes like during anti corruption law changes some times ago, accusition from opposition party that the election is cheated, and now this Omnibus Law.

They tend to stop protesting after 2-3 weeks and let Constitutional Court to decide to solve the dispute on election and new/old law. We dont know what will happen with this new demonstration but we will see....

If Indonesia can once again successful to solve their own problem then the world will applause our people in practicing our democracy, It then shows that our democracy is able to produce better leader each time we do election who dont rely on populism to win the election and retain his/her power and also shows that we have wise and knowledgeable citizens that understand nation problem and hold on the rule of the game where in the end it lets constitutional court to decide, what ever the result may become.

Talking about current demonstration. There is intense campaign and debate from both side currently. Like what happen with my FB circle, in the beginning people are so blind about the law and keep posting information and status that support the protestor. But me and my friends who understand about the need for Indonesia to issue Omnibus Law also give more information about the reason behind the Omnibus Law using our social media account. And Today I would say, so few people in my FB circle who are still criticizing the law. This is because democracy needs active participation of the people in order to produce efficient system.
You think investor really care about democracy or whatever right? They only want as many returns as possible for their investment. No rights will be better. This is a hard true fact although u might dont like to hear about it.
 
Investor do not like such things happened be it small or big. It is no good for their investment.

They will stick with China even it may cost them abit more.

Don't know, but they still coming to Indonesia afterall, the rest of choice is India, Thailand and Vietnam. It is your chose with Thailand still being occupied with large scale demonstration against their Junta and King and Vietnam too still marred with communal conflict about land distribution and riots against China and Taiwan companies, and India which is far more obvious reason.
 
You think investor really care about democracy or whatever right? They only want as many returns as possible for their investment. No rights will be better. This is a hard true fact although u might dont like to hear about it.

Democracy is a good system where there is check and balance going on. Sometimes people dont understand harsh but good policy made by government and law makers like this Omnibus Law because lack of knowledge and information.

So there will be demonstration going on to express their opposition to the policy/law, and at this time it is due to the lack of knowleadge and understanding in economy. So it may create some kind of instability that can scare investors and bussines owners, but if the people is wise enough to follow the rule, the demonstration will not damage the stability too much.

In the other hand, the system also has the ability to prevent any ruler/law makers to act against their own nation benefit, democracy for example has better change to prevent Indonesia to have leader like Hitler or Kim Jong Un than country like China. So it may also create some sort of stability in the long term than any authoritarian nation.

Dont forget that any chaos happening in authoritarian countries can be really damaging, just look what happen in Syria and Libya. The reason there are still many foreign investors coming to China is because any business person actually cannot escape from doing gambling. It may effect your current finansial situation positively, but you need to sacrifice your freedom because of it and you need to live with the possibility to have some kind of revolution in the future like what happen in Syria and Libya.
 
Investor do not like such things happened be it small or big. It is no good for their investment.

They will stick with China even it may cost them abit more.

You think investor really care about democracy or whatever right? They only want as many returns as possible for their investment. No rights will be better. This is a hard true fact although u might dont like to hear about it.

No big reform is easy. If it was, people would all be doing it. These riots are expectedand are reaction to reforms. Let us wait and see to see how long they continue.

Very few companies will exit China. Why should they? China represents not only a great manufacturing base, but a humongeous market. The size and prosperity (read: buying power) of China's domestic Market is good enough to convince most companies to keep operating in China.

What Indonesia and most other nations are aiming for though, is to be the +1. Companies are planning to stay in China, but will also set up manufacturing in one other country to account for political risk and other eventualities.

In this the main contenders are:
1) Vietnam
2) Thailand
3) Indonesia
4) India
5) Bangladesh

Right now, Vietnam is the clear ideal "backup" nation. Indonesia is honestly rather low, but it is hoped with this reform we will become more competitive.

Of course, politicians can't say they are trying to be "China's backup" or "China's +1" so instead they proclaim they are "Replacing China". So in truth these relocations won't hurt China, even if they benefit the recieving nation.
 
Democracy is a good system where there is check and balance going on. Sometimes people dont understand harsh but good policy made by government and law makers like this Omnibus Law because lack of knowledge and information.

So there will be demonstration going on to express their opposition to the policy/law, and at this time it is due to the lack of knowleadge and understanding in economy. So it may create some kind of instability that can scare investors and bussines owners, but if the people is wise enough to follow the rule, the demonstration will not damage the stability too much.

In the other hand, the system also has the ability to prevent any ruler/law makers to act against their own nation benefit, democracy for example has better change to prevent Indonesia to have leader like Hitler or Kim Jong Un than country like China. So it may also create some sort of stability in the long term than any authoritarian nation.

Dont forget that any chaos happening in authoritarian countries can be really damaging, just look what happen in Syria and Libya. The reason there are still many foreign investors coming to China is because any business person actually cannot escape from doing gambling. It may effect your current finansial situation positively, but you need to sacrifice your freedom because of it and you need to live with the possibility to have some kind of revolution in the future like what happen in Syria and Libya.


The reason why China is still the darling of global investors are: market (huge market/demand), mature supply chain ecosystem, efficiency and stability. You know even for low tech shirts/shoes China's product could even be cheaper than those from India, Indonesia, etc.
The reason why some company want to leave China is: political pressure /incentive from their government of origin, the other is because of high wage of china labour.
 
The reason why China is still the darling of global investors are: market (huge market/demand), mature supply chain ecosystem, efficiency and stability. You know even for low tech shirts/shoes China's product could even be cheaper than those from India, Indonesia, etc.
The reason why some company want to leave China is: political pressure /incentive from their government of origin, the other is because of high wage of china labour.

That is common knowledge that you share here. I just want to emphasis on why business people still want to invest in an authoritarian countries such as China although in the future there is possibility for this country to be like Syria or Libya if the transition into democracy is failed there.

Even in Indonesia during 1998 there was possibility for such event to happen with ambitious Prabowo who control the biggest and most modern Army corps, Kostrad, with his friend Safrie Samsudin who controls troops in Jakarta (Pangdam Jaya) and his other friend who control Kopassus (Special Force with 8000 strong soldiers with base located near Jakarta).

In the other hand Wiranto, Armed Force General, is given an authority by Soeharto to do what ever necessary to control the situation. Just think if this competing Generals use their soldier at that time when one force is going to crash reformation and the other force want to save reformation movement, but Alhamdulillah nothing happen and this two person understand the need to obey the civilian rule and embrace democracy. While our civilian leaders at that time alhamdulillah also get united during that fragile moment.

That friction actually happen and this is way during that period, 1998 riots, it was marine force who was rushly deployed in Jakarta by Wiranto although the base is farther than Kostrad.
 
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That is common knowledge that you share here. I just want to emphasis on why business people still want to invest in an authoritarian countries such as China although in the future there is possibility for this country to be like Syria or Libya if the transition into democracy is failed there.

Even in Indonesia during 1998 there was possibility for such event to happen with ambitious Prabowo who control the biggest and most modern Army corps, Kostrad, with his friend Safrie Samsudin who controls troops in Jakarta (Pangdam Jaya) and his other friend who control Kopassus (Special Force with 8000 strong soldiers with base located near Jakarta).

In the other hand Wiranto, Armed Force General, is given an authority by Soeharto to do what ever necessary to control the situation. Just think if this competing Generals use their soldier at that time when one force is going to crash reformation and the other force want to save reformation movement, but Alhamdulillah nothing happen and this two person understand the need to obey the civilian rule and embrace democracy. While our civilian leaders at that time alhamdulillah also get united during that fragile moment.

That friction actually happen and this is way during that period, 1998 riots, it was marine force who was rushly deployed in Jakarta by Wiranto although the base is farther than Kostrad.

Wiranto is not ordered Marinir to come to Jakarta, that's purely initiative the then Navy chief and Marine corps leader, even they using their small transport plane to bring many tanks crew from Surabaya to Jakarta to manned Marines armored vehicles.
 
Don't know, but they still coming to Indonesia afterall, the rest of choice is India, Thailand and Vietnam. It is your chose with Thailand still being occupied with large scale demonstration against their Junta and King and Vietnam too still marred with communal conflict about land distribution and riots against China and Taiwan companies, and India which is far more obvious reason.
I dont know what do u mean by they still coming to Indonesia but seems like not much investor heed US or Japan call to pull out of China and investment are still in record pace pouring into China. Not to mention our stock market is record high. Clearly show the level of confident for Chinese economy and stability.
 
That is common knowledge that you share here. I just want to emphasis on why business people still want to invest in an authoritarian countries such as China although in the future there is possibility for this country to be like Syria or Libya if the transition into democracy is failed there.

Even in Indonesia during 1998 there was possibility for such event to happen with ambitious Prabowo who control the biggest and most modern Army corps, Kostrad, with his friend Safrie Samsudin who controls troops in Jakarta (Pangdam Jaya) and his other friend who control Kopassus (Special Force with 8000 strong soldiers with base located near Jakarta).

In the other hand Wiranto, Armed Force General, is given an authority by Soeharto to do what ever necessary to control the situation. Just think if this competing Generals use their soldier at that time when one force is going to crash reformation and the other force want to save reformation movement, but Alhamdulillah nothing happen and this two person understand the need to obey the civilian rule and embrace democracy. While our civilian leaders at that time alhamdulillah also get united during that fragile moment.

That friction actually happen and this is way during that period, 1998 riots, it was marine force who was rushly deployed in Jakarta by Wiranto although the base is farther than Kostrad.


In fact authoritarian country is the most difficult one to be influenced or stirred or cracked or divided by foreign power; while on the other hand democratic countries is the easy ones to be stirred by foreign power and easier to be divided; because during the competition the parties in democratic countries could be influenced by world/global power in symbiosis mutualism, not to mention NGOs roles in that country that could be stirred by foreign power. Thats why world (western) power want world countries to be democratic.

China is far from being like Syria because Chinese people love their current government while CCP has strong control including through technology/surveillance application. Economic of USSR, Syria, Libya, etc was not successful and they can't control information flow either, thats why their authoritarian governments could be cracked, it is different with China.

Till foreseeable future China is still very stable country even more stable than US, and no investor doubt that.
 
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I think VN has a advantage of closer to China. If VN play smart, he can get more benefits from China's supply chain.
 
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