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Indonesia to increase imports from India amid New Delhi - Malaysia spat

I don't trust the source but if it's true that Indonesia is trying to take advantage bcoz of Malaysia' stand on Kashmir instead of siding with them then as I said, Pakistan should wait for it's time to respond where it hurt Indonesia the most.

Pakistan is one of the largest Palm oil importer, I think it's time for us to import all from Malaysia..

LOL the source is coming from Pakistani general himself and Pakistani book. Have you reading it ? There is also a book about Indonesia contribution from Indian book, you can just search it through google. You can ask @WJsal
about the book since he is the one who have read it
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I was reading this book, came across some information, which, unfortunately not many are aware of. I thought i'd share it, hope you guys enjoy and hope it is informative.
An extract from the book "The first Round", by Air Marshal M Asghar Khan:

‘Having established effective maritime control over the Arabian sea, our Navy was keen to intercept on the high seas the the merchant ships taking supplies to India was stopped from doing so by our Foreign Office for fear of international opinion.

On 10 September 1965 Air Marshal Asghar Khan arrived in Peking and later handed over to Mr Chou En Lai a letter from the President Field Marshal Ayub Khan. After discussion he flew down to Indonesia and was received by the commander-in-chief Indonesian Air force at a military airfield, 100 miles from Djkarta. He was taken by a military plane to Djkarta and on arrival driven to President’s palace. President Sukarno receive him immediately and was given President Ayub Khan’s letter asking Indonesia’s help in our ‘dire’ need. President President Sukarno said, “your dire need? it is our dire need.” Sukarno went on to say that he had a meeting of the War council the previous day and they had decided that Indonesia would give all possible help to Pakistan. He said India’s attack on Pakistan was like an attack on Indonesia and they were duty bound to give us all possible assistance. He asked me to consider Indonesia as my own country and take away from there whatever i found could be useful to Pakistan in this emergency. “But remember,” he added, “ that we also have a problem - our conflict with Malaysia”. He suggested that whilst deciding what i should take away, i should, bearing in mind Indonesia’s needs, decide what should be left behind. These were, he said, his instructions to Subandrio i should discuss details with him and Omar Dhani.

I therefore asked Omar Dhani whether he could give us the four aircraft in reserve. ‘You have heard the president,’ he said, ‘you can have anything you want,’ i then enquired MIG-19 aircraft and Omar Dhani agreed to give all of them to us. He also agreed to give us a few MIG-15s. It was agreed that these should be dismantled and crafted by the Indonesian Air Force and carried in Indonesian Ships. Martadinata, the Indonesian Naval commander-in-Chief, was there and i asked whether he felt happy about taking this equipment to Karachi and whether he feared interference by the Indian Navy. He said that the ships would be escorted and he would ensure that the cargo was delivered safely at Karachi. When we had finished discussing the details of the assistance we could expect from Indonesia, i prepared to leave for Pekings on my way to Pakistan. As i got up to go, Martadinata asked whether this was all i wanted Indonesia to do for Pakistan. ‘What more can you do?’’ i asked. ‘don’t you want us to take over the Andaman Islands? a look at the map will show, he continued, ‘that the Andaman and Nicobar island are extensions of Sumatra and are in any case between East Pakistan and Indonesia. What right have the Indians to be there? I suggested that he should discuss the matter with his President. In the present situation there would certainly be no regrets on the part of Pakistan if Indonesia occupied these Islands. Unfortunately we were not in position to assist them in performing this task. ‘In any case’, he said, ‘the Indonesian Navy will immediately commence patrols of the approaches to these islands and carry out aerial reconnaissance missions to see what the Indians have there’. I thanked him for his support and, along with Omar Dhani, left for the military airfield where our Boeing was waiting.

Martadinata backed his words with substantial material aid for the Pakistan Navy. He ordered immediate transfer of two submarines and four Osa missile boats to Pakistan. In the previous year ships of Pakistan Navy had paid a goodwill visit to Indonesia and cordial understanding had been established between the two navies. Realizing the acute needs of Pakistan and appreciating the imbalance between our Navy and the Indian Navy, Martadinata acted swiftly and sincerely. At that time Indonesia was heading for a confrontation with the great Britain over the straits of Malacca where a sizeable Task Force of British Carriers and other big ships had been stationed. The missile boats were the only deterrent force available to the Indonesians. Moreover the, the submarines and the missile boats had been given to Indonesia by the USSR under a bilateral treaty which forbade their transfer to another country. It was therefore an act of great courage and friendship on the part of Soekarno and his naval Commander-in-chief to transfer these vessels to Pakistan at the time.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indonesia-and-pakistan-historic-relations.414673/
 
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Indonesia is currently under secular nationalist leader so the urge to show solidarity in Muslim issue is less then if it is under an Islamist or religious nationalist leader. Despite so Muslim issues are still influencing our foreign policy greatly like in the case of Palestine, Afghanistan, Rohingya, and also Uigyur.

Next leader IMO will have more Islamic credential or having a coalition with Islamist parties just like during SBY administration from 2004 until 2014. Under his administration we signed defense agreement with various Muslim countries like Turkey, Saudi, and Pakistan.

Indonesia IMO will side with Pakistan if India become the aggressor, regardless who will be Indonesian leader.

Actually Jokowi has come to Pakistan and speak in front of Pakistan parliament but until now Pakistan has yet made a replied visit to Indonesia. During the visit Jokowi also stress the important of applying Muslim brotherhood idea among Muslim nations.

@Pirupiru Jokowi also acknowledge Pakistan contribution to our war independence.

@Pirupiru watch this yr own own countrymen......as i said indonesian government has already recognized this fact officially yr mere denials DO NOT CHANGE THE REALITY! wikipedia or not wikipedia! British army coming to ''replace'' yr colonial masters theory or NOT!
https://web.archive.org/web/2011072...u.go.id/karachi/Pages/AboutUs.aspx?IDP=1&l=en

Now get lost from this forum of ours, and yr welcome to wiggle yr tale infront of yr new master ie MONEY!

Goodbye and buzz off
 
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I don't trust the source but if it's true that Indonesia is trying to take advantage bcoz of Malaysia' stand on Kashmir instead of siding with them then as I said, Pakistan should wait for it's time to respond where it hurt Indonesia the most.

Pakistan is one of the largest Palm oil importer, I think it's time for us to import all from Malaysia..

You can find many books saying about that

https://books.google.co.id/books?id=atLHDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT99&lpg=PT99&dq=indonesia+help+pakistan+mig+planes&source=bl&ots=zD8tnv2Z0-&sig=ACfU3U0Fu1fqytDh372q7YOxzO41Z-0_JA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXh6HpyqDnAhXbF3IKHQH9BNgQ6AEwGHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=indonesia help pakistan mig planes&f=false

https://books.google.co.id/books?id=HPWrAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=indonesia+help+pakistan+mig+planes&source=bl&ots=c15aq_vy_X&sig=ACfU3U0kW1wp4mpB4YpMEGwDYopmZw6ZkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXh6HpyqDnAhXbF3IKHQH9BNgQ6AEwDHoECAwQAQ#v=onepage&q=indonesia help pakistan mig planes&f=false

2 submarines are also sent which is also stated the book "The first Round", by Air Marshal M Asghar Khan that I posted the link in previous post. Indonesian source also say about this submarines sending.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indonesia-and-pakistan-historic-relations.414673/

Actually not only Indonesia who helped Pakistan during Indo Pak war but also Turkey, Iran, Saudi, Iraq, and Afghanistan. You can read it on the link I provided. This is a prove that Muslim brotherhood do exist even in the time where Nationalist politician who control the nations. @Rasengan
 
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@Pirupiru watch this yr own own countrymen......as i said indonesian government has already recognized this fact officially yr mere denials DO NOT CHANGE THE REALITY! wikipedia or not wikipedia! British army coming to ''replace'' yr colonial masters theory or NOT!
https://web.archive.org/web/2011072...u.go.id/karachi/Pages/AboutUs.aspx?IDP=1&l=en

Now get lost from this forum of ours, and yr welcome to wiggle yr tale infront of yr new master ie MONEY!

Goodbye and buzz off

That's not a theory, it is written well here

https://kitaab.org/2017/08/20/india-indonesia-independence/amp/

I don't understand why you get mad at a fact. India helped us in the past too, so did other countries. Indonesia has also helped other countries regardless their religions. I think you are just being confused mixing your religious sentiment with political approach. And that's not healthy.
 
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That's not a theory, it is written well here

https://kitaab.org/2017/08/20/india-indonesia-independence/amp/

I don't understand why you get mad at a fact. India helped us in the past too, so did other countries. Indonesia has also helped other countries regardless their religions. I think you are just being confused mixing your religious sentiment with political approach. And that's not healthy.
as i said! yr welcome to wiggle yr tale infront of yr new master ie MONEY!

Now dont quote me again and get out of our defence forum or else prepare to get banned!

some kitaab. org isnt some authentic source.....anyways get lost!
 
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as i said! yr welcome to wiggle yr tale infront of yr new master ie MONEY!

Now dont quote me again and get out of our defence forum or else prepare to get banned!
I have been here since 2011, and I will get banned just because I told you the perspective that shared by the majority of Indonesians?
 
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I have been here since 2011, and I will get banned just because I told you the perspective that shared by the majority of Indonesians?
as i said dont quote me again and get lost before i report u! u will be banned because yr lying, when yr government has officially accepted our help given to yr country even by yr president when he visited pakistan itself......so now never quote me again, and i wish that DAESH annihilate you for good, justice must be served, and so much we change our policy towards south china sea because atleast china is fully supporting our claim on kashmir and isnt replacing anybody being punished by india for its stand in kashmir unlike indonesia!

Now get out of our own pakistani forum, i dont give a shit what u think!
 
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as i said dont quote me again and get lost before i report u! u will be banned because yr lying, when yr government has officially accepted our help given to yr country even by yr president when he visited pakistan itself......so now never quote me again, and i wish that DAESH annihilate you for good, justice must be served, and so much we change our policy towards south china sea because atleast china is fully supporting our claim on kashmir and isnt replacing anybody being punished by india for its stand in kashmir unlike indonesia!

Now get out of our own pakistani forum, i dont give a shit what u think!

As written in the history, at that time, newly born Indonesia received lots of help and recognition from various countries including India, The USA and even Vatican. Now you mentioned that your British army has "fought" for us, but even if that's true, didn't we help you in return too?

You need to stop being in denial and accept the truth that Indonesia is shaped by different elements ranging from Hindu, Islam and so on, so you cannot frame my country using your flawed mindset. If we intervered your bilateral issues, it woud be a diplomatic disaster for Indonesia. And again, it is not about money, but Indonesia's national interest. You will understand when you are a grown man.
 
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then what this means for the future of pak indo relationship?
well nothing will change, we never Take relationship with Pakistan seriously in the first place
fyi indonesia give free visa to over 170 nationality to enter indonesia and if i remember correctly there is only 14 country in the world that doesnt have that luxury and pakistan is one of them. so yeah the "ummah" thingy is never been a cornerstone of our foreign policy making.
considering that our own sons had died fighting for you and for yr liberation war against the dutch......even though there is hardly any benefit Pakistan gets from indonesia at all.
first of all in 1945 there is no pakistan yet and those 200 people who fought for our independent strugle is "british india" troops who may came from all over the colony not just modern day pakistan, got the data proof me wrong.
and second thing is you stated that indonesia never help pakistan in any form and shape? Sukarno gave you guys 2 f****** submarines and dozen mig fighter jet, well i guess it doesn't count.
Secondly we train the indo forces to this day! yr soldiers come to our academies and graduate, we do bilateral training exercises on counter terrorism fronts too and pakistan gives indonesia experience in counter terrorism given how much DAESH is expanding its footprint in indonesia!
I am a military enthusiast myself and I never ever heard our military send our officers to be educated in Pakistan academy.

Even Zimbabwe got 30 days free visa to enter Indonesia but not Pakistan that's how important Pakistan to Indonesia for you.
 
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Actually not only Indonesia who helped Pakistan during Indo Pak war but also Turkey, Iran, Saudi, Iraq, and Afghanistan. You can read it on the link I provided. This is a prove that Muslim brotherhood do exist even in the time where Nationalist politician who control the nations. @Rasengan

What year are we living in today Brother @Indos? 2020. What Pakistani's did to liberate Indonesia in 1945 means nothing in the present time. The same concept applies to Indonesia helping Pakistan which I appreciate in 1965. In the age of globalization money talks and people listen leaving there moral compass behind. If Muslim brotherhood existed they would have boycotted India. Instead, one Muslim country (Indonesia) is happy to take over the monetary gain of another (Malaysia) who stood on principal. If Muslim brotherhood existed then we wouldn't see so much blood shed amongst us. The Middle East section is a prime example on this forum. Muslim's are not united politically, economically or military. I don't feel anger toward Indonesia Brother @Indos. It focused on its own national interests which is the natural behaviour of all states. What irks me is the stupidity of some Pakistani's.
 
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This news is not using credible sources since they both decline to show their real identity but something that is clear is that the sources are Indian.

Indonesia itself is a big producer of automotive parts so I doubt the credibility of the news.

Despite that, India has asked Indonesia to purchase more Indian goods when both nations are agreed to boost their trade into 50 billion dollar. Even if the news is true, it has nothing to do with Indian Malaysian spat since the agreement has been prepared quite long.
Personally I would say that Indonesia should stand with Malaysia...however my personal opinions aside...
...at the very least...as one of the biggest Muslim countries on earth(by population), Indonesia should take a stance against India due to India's treatment of Muslims in Kashmir with the recent blackout/curfews/etc. I understand that it's difficult and more wishful thinking to have a total economic boycott and other such things...but at the very least some measures should be taken. It is bcuz Muslim countries don't take such steps(together) that Muslims are suffering around the world. Otherwise just economic boycott(from all Muslim countries together) is enough of a threat to have countries like India, Myanmar, etc. think twice before carrying out their atrocities.
What year are we living in today Brother @Indos? 2020. What Pakistani's did to liberate Indonesia in 1945 means nothing in the present time. The same concept applies to Indonesia helping Pakistan which I appreciate in 1965. In the age of globalization money talks and people listen leaving there moral compass behind. If Muslim brotherhood existed they would have boycotted India. Instead, one Muslim country (Indonesia) is happy to take over the monetary gain of another (Malaysia) who stood on principal. If Muslim brotherhood existed then we wouldn't see so much blood shed amongst us. The Middle East section is a prime example on this forum. Muslim's are not united politically, economically or military. I don't feel anger toward Indonesia Brother @Indos. It focused on its own national interests which is the natural behaviour of all states. What irks me is the stupidity of some Pakistani's.
I agree that it is idealistic to think about ummah and unity among Muslim countries...whereas in reality that's not how the present world works. U r right that money talks...and a lot of Pakistanis are foolish to hold on to this ummah concept instead of putting their own country's interest first. However what's the alternative approach? Embracing that reality? Bending to things like money? If we give up the moral compass...for some extra bucks...wouldnt we also become like those Arab nations conferring medals on the likes of Modi while they brutalize Kashmiris?

I agree to some extent that ummah concept is dead...and it only holds Pakistan back in some instances to not be like many of those countries that ditch u in an instant if it means some sort of gain...but what's the alternative? I don't think there is an easy answer. Just the fact that Pak was unable to stand with Malaysia/Turkey at the recent summit(due to economic blackmail) was painful enough to watch...in this case there was no choice but to comply...imagine if Pak(as a country) had done it not bcuz it was backed in to a corner but for self gain? Some morals are worth having.
 
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Personally I would say that Indonesia should stand with Malaysia...however my personal opinions aside...
...at the very least...as one of the biggest Muslim countries on earth(by population), Indonesia should take a stance against India due to India's treatment of Muslims in Kashmir with the recent blackout/curfews/etc. I understand that it's difficult and more wishful thinking to have a total economic boycott and other such things...but at the very least some measures should be taken. It is bcuz Muslim countries don't take such steps(together) that Muslims are suffering around the world. Otherwise just economic boycott(from all Muslim countries together) is enough of a threat to have countries like India, Myanmar, etc. think twice before carrying out their atrocities.

I agree that it is idealistic to think about ummah and unity among Muslim countries...whereas in reality that's not how the present world works. U r right that money talks...and a lot of Pakistanis are foolish to hold on to this ummah concept instead of putting their own country's interest first. However what's the alternative approach? Embracing that reality? Bending to things like money? If we give up the moral compass...for some extra bucks...wouldnt we also become like those Arab nations conferring medals on the likes of Modi while they brutalize Kashmiris?

I agree to some extent that ummah concept is dead...and it only holds Pakistan back in some instances to not be like many of those countries that ditch u in an instant if it means some sort of gain...but what's the alternative? I don't think there is an easy answer. Just the fact that Pak was unable to stand with Malaysia/Turkey at the recent summit(due to economical blackmail) was painful enough to watch...in this case there was no choice but to comply...imagine if Pak(as a country) did that for self gain? Some morals are worth having.

Indonesia and Malaysia had their long bloody conflict for five years and several times minor skirmish the latest is happened in 2006 over Ambalat area, there is no easy way to forget the feeling. Although relationship people to people contact is not as bad as India versus Pakistan but we are more akin like China and India in which trade and investment in large number happened between both countries along with cultural interaction but if we get the chance to spank them without repercursion we will do it gladly let alone just to steal their market and inflict some damages to their economy. The case had happened before, blackberry in 2009/ 2010 build their manufacturing industry in Malaysia although their large market is in Indonesia, thus prompt Indonesia people to boycott blackberry product and switch to Android and Samsung, the events made blackberry closed their facilities in Malaysia and retreat from Asia pasific.
 
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Indonesia and Malaysia had their long bloody conflict for five years and several times minor skirmish the latest is happened in 2006 over Ambalat area, there is no easy way to forget the feeling. Although relationship people to people contact is not as bad as India versus Pakistan but we are more akin like China and India in which trade and investment in large number happened between both countries along with cultural interaction but if we get the chance to spank them without repercursion we will do it gladly let alone just to steal their market and inflict some damages to their economy. The case had happened before, blackberry in 2009/ 2010 build their manufacturing industry in Malaysia although their large market is in Indonesia, thus prompt Indonesia people to boycott blackberry product and switch to Android and Samsung, the events made blackberry closed their facilities in Malaysia and retreat from Asia pasific.
I'm aware of their conflict and history...that is not what is being discussed here. I'm saying that Indonesia should take a stand against Indian treatment of Kashmiri Muslims...similar to what Malaysia did...not bcuz of Malaysia or in support of Malaysia but bcuz Indonesia is one of the largest Muslim countries by population. Just like how India tries to stand for Hindus in other countries...it's more of a solidarity thing(with Kashmiri Muslims) that I'm talking about rather than becoming friends over night with Malaysia.
 
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What year are we living in today Brother @Indos? 2020. What Pakistani's did to liberate Indonesia in 1945 means nothing in the present time. The same concept applies to Indonesia helping Pakistan which I appreciate in 1965. In the age of globalization money talks and people listen leaving there moral compass behind. If Muslim brotherhood existed they would have boycotted India. Instead, one Muslim country (Indonesia) is happy to take over the monetary gain of another (Malaysia) who stood on principal. If Muslim brotherhood existed then we wouldn't see so much blood shed amongst us. The Middle East section is a prime example on this forum. Muslim's are not united politically, economically or military. I don't feel anger toward Indonesia Brother @Indos. It focused on its own national interests which is the natural behaviour of all states. What irks me is the stupidity of some Pakistani's.

@Cookie Monster

Look brother, Muslim is getting more conservative and democratic, two variable that push political Islam influence forward in the Muslim world particularly after the year 2000. The situation that is clearly different with what we had in the past where almost all Muslim countries are controlled by Nationalist leaders and parties where political Islam were contained and purged.

Even at that time Muslim Nationalist leaders still helped other Muslim in different nations and regions. It is true in Indo-Pak war, Afghan war, and Bosnian war. I have posted some prove on Indo Pak war. This is other fact about the existence of Muslim Brotherhood among Muslim nations. Indonesian under Soeharto also helped Afghan and Bosnian Muslim militarily. When Sarajevo was under NATO blockade, we sent weapons and ammunition during Soeharto visit to Sarajevo. He was actually endangering himself by doing so. Not to mention Indonesian under Soeharto who helped Malaysian to fight Communist guerrilla in Sabah and Sarawak (part of Borneo island) for many years by sending our special force Kopassus.

Soeharto visited Sarajevo when the city was under siege. Indonesia sent medical equipment and supply and also large ammunition under disguised. Something that is revealed by our Army intelligent officer Suripto after Soeharto fall. This is the news written by Antara (government press agency) writing about Soeripto book that tell about the clandestein operation. https://babel.antaranews.com/berita/83087/suripto-luncurkan-buku-pemikiran-intel-tiga-zaman. Actually not only Indonesia who helped Bosnia but also other nations including Pakistan. Even UAE big transport plane was caught by NATO since UAE send ammunition and weapon to Bosnia. You can just google to verify it.
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Also for current situation. Do you think what is behind the motivation of Turkish AKP party to help GNA government ? Turkish national interest ? I dont think so. It is more religiously motivated as the Turkish secular nationalist parties are against it. Iranian policy to back HAMAS is also religiously motivated as it is actually against Iranian interest as it make them become Israel and US enemy.

Actually the real reason of why many Muslim countries dont sanction India over Kashmir issue is because India occupation on Kashmir is seen similar like Chinese occupation on Xinjiang or Tibet. Those occupation have been accepted by UN as legal. It is difficult to show resentment over that politically accepted occupation and I believe Pakistan also dont help Uigyur as well to fight against China government.

The situation will be different if India try to invade other area of Pakistan, and if India really do it I believe there will be economic sanction issued by OIC and also military help. So I still believe with Muslim Brotherhood things.
 
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Pakistan should diplomatically engage with indonesia and make them understand that how much important that is for Pakistan and for the kashmir cause and make them stop it.

Pakistan had helped Indonesia during their war for liberation from Dutch as well.

Bhai no one give a fcuk about kashmir or muslim brotherhood. Yay sirf pakistani hein jinko Muslim ummah ka danda gusa hua hai.
 
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