Indo-US Nuclear deal called Flawed and problematic

[sword9]

And what way is that?

One based on mutual economic interest and not on politics.

 

[sword9]

Maybe, but the plan is not falling in line with Uncle Sams scheme. We will lay our bets on siding them for the moment, we have gained nothing by being against them all these years.
Quote]


And what are you going to gain by being with them?

For an insight on the issue read the article below.

The truth behind the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal


by Siddharth Varadarajan

July 29, 2005
The Hindu

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In opening the door to nuclear commerce with India, Washington has confirmed how much an alliance with New Delhi is worth to it. But is anybody on the Indian side doing the math?


IN THE fullness of time, last week's nuclear agreement between India and the United States will be seen as one of those decisive moments in international politics when two powers who have been courting each other for some time decide finally to cross the point of no return. The U.S. and India have `come out', so to speak, and the world will never be the same again.

Every world order needs rules in order to sustain itself but sometimes the rules can become a hindrance to the hegemonic strength of the power that underpins that order. Following India's nuclear tests in 1998, the U.S. had two options: continuing to believe the Indian nuclear genie could be put back, or harnessing India's evident strategic weight for its own geopolitical aims before that power grows too immense or is harnessed by others like Europe or China. The U.S. has chosen the latter option, and the joint statement released by President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on July 18 is the most dramatic textual manifestation of what Washington is attempting to do.

India too, had a choice. It could use its nuclear weapons status as a lever to push for a multipolar world system as well as for global restraints on the development of weapons of mass destruction. Or it could use its status as an instrument to help perpetuate an order based on the production of insecurity and violence in which it eventually hoped to be accommodated as a junior partner. The erstwhile Vajpayee Government was never interested in the former option and longed desperately for the latter. The fact that Dr. Singh has managed this is the real source of the BJP's bitterness, not the fact that India's nuclear weapons capability is to be capped (which it is not).

Those in India who marvel at how Mr. Bush could blithely walk away from 40 years of non-proliferation policy do not understand the tectonic shift that is taking place in the bilateral relationship as a result of increasing fears in U.S. business and strategic circles about China. Giving India anything less, or insisting that it cap or scrap its nuclear weapons, is seen by Washington's neo-conservatives as tantamount to strengthening China in the emerging balance of power in Asia. "By integrating India into the non-proliferation order at the cost of capping the size of its eventual nuclear deterrent," Ashley Tellis argued in a recent monograph, "[the U.S. would] threaten to place New Delhi at a severe disadvantage vis-à-vis Beijing, a situation that could not only undermine Indian security but also U.S. interests in Asia in the face of the prospective rise of Chinese power over the long term" (India as a New Global Power: An Action Agenda for the United States, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 2005). This, then, is the real value of the deal in American eyes and the Indian public should be aware of it.

Predictably, critics in the U.S. have raised objections of one type or another. The non-proliferation lobby argues that President Bush's decision to sell nuclear technology and equipment to India will encourage other countries to go down the nuclear path. Not so say the advocates. Mr. Tellis — a former RAND Corporation analyst who served as an advisor to Robert Blackwill when he was U.S. Ambassador to India — is most forthright. He acknowledges the contradiction between the two goals of U.S. foreign policy — building India up as a counter to China and upholding the non-proliferation regime — but says the circle can be squared. His solution: don't jettison the regime "but, rather, selectively [apply] it in practice." In other words, different countries should be treated differently "based on their friendship and value to the U.S." With one stroke of the Presidential pen, India has become something more than a `major non-Nato ally' of the U.S. It has joined the Free World. It has gone from being a victim of nuclear discrimination to a beneficiary. India is not alone. Israel is already there to give it company.

From a strategic perspective, one of the most puzzling aspects of the joint statement was the inclusion of a reiteration by India of its unilateral moratorium on nuclear testing without the U.S. making an explicit reciprocal commitment to abide by its own 1992 moratorium. At stake is not a formal question of protocol but the very real danger that the U.S. might go down the path of testing at some point in the future.
....

 

[RAPTOR]

Written by an indian who seems brainwashed , biased and out of touch with reality. one can harp about the virtues of india for hours...wont make a difference in the real world. Speaking of trade....Thailand's trade volume with the US is 5 times more than india.

 

[sword9]

Speaking of trade....Thailand's trade volume with the US is 5 times more than india.

That is irrelavent. Sino-Indian trade stands at close to $14-15 billion while Sino-Pak trade is $3-4 billion, inspite of China and Pakistan being close strategic partners.

 

[RAPTOR]

The deal will never get passed by Congress in its present form. It is dangerous and illegal.

 

[Bull]

The deal will never get passed by Congress in its present form. It is dangerous and illegal.

from the pakistani point iof view u r right.

But then both parties doesnt care abt that

 

[RAPTOR]

That is irrelavent. Sino-Indian trade stands at close to $14-15 billion while Sino-Pak trade is $3-4 billion, inspite of China and Pakistan being close strategic partners.

True, but bilateral trade and the Nuclear Deal are two different things. It was a hurried, dumb suggestion by Blackwill (who we all know is an idiot)and Rice after Bush announced that he will sell F-16s to Pakistan. Congress is not going to pass it in its present form.
india is far better off without the nuclear deal , it already has a very advanced and Huge Nuclear industry.

 

[RAPTOR]

The Bush admin is not distancing itself from the deal. What is your assumption based on?

Maybe, but the plan is not falling in line with Uncle Sams scheme. We will lay our bets on siding them for the moment, we have gained nothing by being against them all these years.

We'll access it our way not on imposed conditions.

Exactly who is controlling whom?




India should be ready to accept amendments to nuke deal: RiceSRIDHAR KRISHNASWAMI WASHINGTON, MAY 3 (PTI)
Supporting the early passage of the Indo-US nuclear deal in the Congress, the Bush Administration has said New Delhi must be prepared to accept "amendments" to the agreement which are within the "spirit" of the July 2005 accord signed between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and US President George W Bush.
This was conveyed to a delelgation of visiting Indian Parliamentarians by US Secretary of State Condoleezze Rice during a 30-minute meeting at the state department here.
"She did not say basic (changes to the framework) but that India should be prepared, should be ready for some amendments which will be within the framework...but it depends how Congress interprets," Rajya Sabha MP Shahid Siddique, who was a part of the delegation, said.
"Our main concern was the amendments we are expecting and we are concerned about the amendments. She said...if the amendments are within the spirit of the July 18 agreement then we should be prepared for it. The message was that there are going to be amendments and we should be ready for it...." The Member of Parliament said it was generally recognised that time was of essence and that the civilian nuclear energy agreement should be formalised at the earliest.
"She said what is important now is the sequence, that how fast you are able to engage IAEA... because if that is not clear then the Congress will ask what are we getting in to. That is the message from her," he added.

"Our concern is that if it does not go through now, then it will be difficult to get it through after summer recess... we feel that it should be done before the summer recess," Siddique said. "We are a bit worried about the amendments which are being suggested. It is not very clear as to what the amendments are going to be ... getting us into the CTBT (Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty) through the backdoor is also of concern to us because it will not be acceptable to the Parliament in India, especially to the Left....," he said. On asked what transpired in the meeting between Rice and the visiting Parliamentary Delegation, a senior State Department official said," They discussed our strategic partnership--the US-India civil nuclear cooperation initiative, our economic and energy dialogue.

 

[Bull]

NEW DELHI: Ahead of the Nuclear Suppliers Group's meeting in Brazil next month, a key politician from Japan's ruling party has indicated that Tokyo will consider supporting the India-US nuclear deal if there is "adequate trust" between New Delhi and the international community over its nuclear programme.

"As far as peaceful uses of nuclear energy are concerned, Japan is not opposed to it," Kisaburo Tokai, director general of the international bureau of the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), said.

"If there is complete trust between India and the international community and India complies with provisions of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on the safeguards issue, then Japan has no problems with it," he stressed.

Tokai was here as head of a four-member delegation of MPs who were visiting India to study the country's growth story and prospects of better India-Japan relations.

Tokai, however, underlined that Japan, a victim of the only nuclear attacks in history, advocated universal nuclear disarmament and sought India's cooperation in pushing it in various bilateral and multilateral forums.

"Japan's position has always been complete disarmament. We need to ensure there is complete disarmament and complete elimination of nuclear weapons," said Tokai, former senior vice-minister for education, science and technology.

Japan is an influential player in the 45-nation NSG that controls global exports of nuclear technology and fuel and holds the key to facilitating civilian nuclear cooperation with India.

If Japan backs nuclear cooperation with India at the NSG meet, it will be a big diplomatic gain for New Delhi as it was one of the few countries that expressed its reservations over the India-US nuclear deal at the meeting of the NSG held last year.

Japan, which backs stronger non-proliferation institutions, can also help India deal with tricky issues of nuclear safety.

The two countries had agreed to establish a new framework to discuss the issue of civilian nuclear cooperation during Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso's visit here early this year.

Japan, which never missed an opportunity to criticize India's nuclear tests in 1998, has softened over the years and forged a strategic partnership with New Delhi during the visit of Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi last year.

Rebutting speculations about Japan quitting the G4 initiative for expansion of the UN Security Council, Tokai clarified that Tokyo was still very much a part of the G4 grouping that comprises India, Japan, Brazil and Germany.

"We need to build international consensus on expansion of the UN Security Council. Certain steps have to be taken to push it forward," Tokai said.

Tokai, however, rues that despite shared values of democracy, free market and open societies, economic relations between India and Japan have not grown to the extent they should have.

"Being major powers in Asia, India and Japan should play a bigger role on the global stage. We have to give more time to explore ways and means to make this relationship more powerful in political, economic and cultural terms," Tokai asserted

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1519109.cms

 

[RAPTOR]

[SIZE=+2]Bush's Destabilizing Nuke Deal with India[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]By INGMAR LEE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+3]C[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ountless thousands of people have died in the utterly stupid and useless wars which have been fought between India an Pakistan since "Partition" in 1947.This warmongering enmity has resulted in a precarious and insidious arms race, and today, the subdivided subcontinent is locked into the world's most dangerous nuclear brinkmanship embrace. Both India and Pakistan have secretly developed ricketty nuclear weapons using materials derived from internationally supplied civilian power plants. Both countries have tested nuclear bombs and developed missile systems capable of delivering the bombs to their targets. As all the world knows full well, if one combatant gets a nuke, then its opponent will want one as well. It wasn't until India exploded its first nuke that Pakistan knew that it had to have the bomb too. This is exactly what nuclear proliferation is all about.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT), says their website, is a landmark international treaty whose objective is to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology, to promote co-operation in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy and to further the goal of achieving nuclear disarmament, and general and complete disarmament. The Treaty represents the only binding commitment in a multilateral treaty to the goal of disarmament by the nuclear-weapon States. Neither India nor Pakistan are signatories to the NPT, and both countries have defiled the spirit of the treaty by their nuclear weapons programs. On May 11 and 13, 1998, India blatantly carried out five nuclear tests at its Pokhran blast site. Two weeks later, Pakistan responded by exploding five nuclear bombs at its base in Balochistan. But in spite of such outright reciprocal madness, in the buck-boggled brain of Bush, India should be given a special exemption from the requirements of the Non Proliferation Treaty.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]Bush Throws Gas on the Fire[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]When India detonated its first nuclear blast in 1974, it weaseled out an explanation to the horrified world that their plan was to apply such explosive power to "peaceful projects" only. Hard-rock mining was an example which was given. India is extremely proud to be a nuclear power and has therefore invested heavily in its program by constructing 22 reactors since 1956. For this massive investment, the civil return is a pathetic 3% total nuclear contribution to the country's electrical grid. 50 years of frenzied construction has got Boiling Water Reactors, Pressurized Heavy Water Reactors, Fast Breeder Reactors and Reprocessing plants buzzing and clicking away all over the country, but beyond producing this pittance of electricity, there's only one other thing that the Nuke Plants are good for, and that's making bombs. Oh, and irradiating mangos.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In July, 2005, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh travelled to Washington to discuss with Bush how India and the USA could patch up their differences and start the free-flow of nuclear material, fuels, technology and expertise once again. America had boycotted India's program since it started detonating its bombs. Bush then visited India in March to further the deal, but before he left the US, in a bizarre bargaining feint, he arbitrarily demoted India from the ranks of "leading countries with advanced nuclear technology" - the phrase used in the July 18, 2005 India-U.S. Statement - to those who merely have a "developing nuclear energy programme." In his speech to the Asia Society in Washington, Bush named India as a country that would have to hand over its spent nuclear fuel to a handful of "supplier nations" for reprocessing, forgoing in the bargain its right to reprocess the waste generated from its civilian nuclear programme. But after flying half way around the world in a highly publicized PR adventure, the Indian negotiators knew very well that Bush just had to emerge with a deal, at any cost, so they easily got around all that eleventh hour bluster.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Bush Gets Snookered[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]India agreed to allow international safeguards on only 14 of its reactors. The other 8 therefore, will be able to proliferate nuclear weaponry. The Bush team even capitulated on safeguarding the fast breeder reactors, which can produce especially large quantities of bomb-quality plutonium. So the plan will also allow India to reprocess spent nuclear fuel in its civilian power reactors for weapons purposes. If the deal goes through, India can extract more that two tons of plutonium from fuel rods and build a 1000 more bombs. And while Manmohan Singh may have promised to refrain from nuclear test blasts, notso with his predeccesor, former Prime Minister and BJP opposition leader, Atal Behari Vajpayee. Accusing the government of accepting "a legally binding commitment" never to test nuclear weapons, Vajpayee said that the India-US deal should be redrawn to ensure that India's right to conduct nuclear tests is not compromised.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The shrewd Indian negotiators also knew that the crippled lame-duck Bush will have to clear another series of political hurdles back home before this deal is ever ratified, so India has not kept all of its eggs in the Bush basket either. They've got other options already lined up to satisfy their desperate need for nuclear fuel, just in case Bush can't weedle the US Congress and the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) into lowering their principles and standards to his level. The only thing Bush can now hype about his deal is the billions and billions of bucks that will flow into the massive American-economy-stoking nuclear and weapons of mass destruction proliferation business.The proliferation concerns that he welched on were just another pesky international UN obstacle that must be bludgeoned to make way for the USA.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]But the US Congress, and even the quisling US corporate media, is not necessarily buying the Bush bullshit. Congressman Edward Markey (D-MA) is now challenging the bill, and is exposing more Indian subterfuge in its nuclear program. Two days before Rice defended the deal in her testimony before Congress recently, the Washington Post said, "few of Bush's decisions have as much potential to shake up international order than this deal with India...He decided to change laws to enable India to buy foreign-made nuclear reactors if it opened its civilian facilities to international inspections -while being allowed to substantially ramp up its ability to produce materials for nuclear weapons," the Post said. Earlier this month, the Post reported that it was turning out to be a "controversial deal" and a "hard sell" on Capitol Hill primarily because Congress had never even been consulted. As one non-proliferation policy specialist put it, "it is no accident that [nuclear experts] were not included, because you didn't have to be a seer to know how much they would hate this. But Bush doesn't care about that. This deal was never about non-proliferation, -it's about billions and billions of dollars.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]Bush Gets Duped[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In the July 18th 2005 India-US Joint Statement , Bush told Manmohan Singh that "he will work to achieve full civil nuclear energy cooperation with India as it realizes its goals of promoting nuclear power and achieving energy security. The President would also seek agreement from Congress to adjust U.S. laws and policies, and the United States will work with friends and allies (the Nuclear Suppliers Group) to adjust international regimes to enable full civil nuclear energy cooperation and trade with India, including, but not limited to, expeditious consideration of fuel supplies for safeguarded nuclear reactors at Tarapur." By 2005, India was getting pretty desperate to get around the international obstacles that were preventing them from getting fuel for Tarapur.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Russia and India, it turns out, had already concluded a secret deal to supply fuel to Tarapur, and they were not going to wait around for the political wrangling that will take place in Washington over the next few months to be sorted out. Instead, immediately after Bush's visit to India, Russia raced to the Nuclear Suppliers Group to notify them of their intention to supply fuel for two of the Tarapur nuclear reactors on "safety grounds," because they were running low on fuel. The Russian deal to supply the nuclear fuel was concluded last December, but because it was going to raise hackles, especially in the United States, it was kept under wraps until February. It was only then that Russia notified the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Nuclear Suppliers Group of the sale. India's Big Buddy Bush was not even informed that a fuel deal had already been negotiated with Russia in the lead up to his trip to India! The U.S., like other NSG members, only came to know of the proposed supply after Mr. Bush's return to Washington when Russia intimated its intent.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]Now I just have to ask, how is it that this incredible story that an American president got duped on the world stage by Russia and India is not all over the USA media?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]

 

[RAPTOR]

Ok...this is hard to believe.....i read it in an indian news rag.....



In 1998 near the nuclear testing site when Indian Air Force encountered hovering extraterrestrial UFOs </B>
India Daily Technology Team
Apr. 29, 2006

​

It was in 11th to 13th May of 1998 when India conducted the nuclear tests. On 11 May 1998, India conducted three nuclear explosions at its Pokhran nuclear test-site. On 13 May 1998, India conducted tests of two sub-kiloton nuclear devices at Pokhran.
In the first week of May villagers kept far away from the test area reported strange lights at night. India Air Force encountered the hovering inquisitive UFOs the same time. Special protection force was used to chase these UFOs but the UFOs disappeared in no time.
The UFOs according to sources were triangle shaped, some oval and some of other. They could float with no sound. They could accelerate at the speed of light. They could disappear into higher dimensions instantaneously.
Indian Air Force pilots understood the advanced capabilities of these UFOs. The Migs and Su-27s decided not to fire or even chase these silent spectators of what would be biggest news of the year.
The extraterrestrial contacts with India started in early 1970s after the first nuclear test by India.
heres the link http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/8306.asp

 

[Bull]

Special protection force was used to chase these UFOs but the UFOs disappeared in no time

SPF is a ground force how did it chase an UFO?? were they running on foot chasing it or where they on their mahindras.
.

Indian Air Force pilots understood the advanced capabilities of these UFOs. The Migs and Su-27s decided not to fire or even chase these silent spectators

So at first they say they chased and then they say they didnt chase it.

stupid press reports..

 

[Neo]

Maybe stupid but realy funny!

 

[RAPTOR]

I dont know if i should open up a thread with the name "indian UFOS " or not, any sugestions?


Underwater sonic booms affecting San Diego, Andaman
Nicobar Islands and Java &#8211; underwater sub-tectonic UFO bases under construction </B>
India Daily Technology Team
Apr. 29, 2006 ​

​

Strange things are happening simultaneously in Andaman islands of India, Java and in San Diego. Underwater sonic booms are causing strange localized earthquake effects in these areas.

According to some scientists, these are not underwater nuke experiments by any country. These are coming from way below the earth&#8217;s crust at the sub-tectonic levels. These are not what oil companies do to find more oil. No Governments on the earth has the capability to operate that deep into earth&#8217;s crust.
These strange shock waves are similar to what was received during the Tsunami in 2004 December and after that. Scientists are looking into possibilities of underwater sub-tectonic UFO bases under construction. That will create these strange effects.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/8303.asp

 

[Bull]

who we all know is an idiot

Speak for yourself.....