Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

[dadeechi]

Now that FGFA is dead what are the implications on AMCA and prospects of F-35 Acquisition

 

[IndoUS]

If it is dead then India should buy out the prototypes since it is pretty far in development cycle and can get us much more help rather than working in the dark.

 

[C130]

I don't think it's dead.

I just think both countries massively underestimated how long and how much it would cost to develop a 5th gen fighter.

 

[Red Wolf]

 

[dadeechi]

I don't think it's dead.

I just think both countries massively underestimated how long and how much it would cost to develop a 5th gen fighter.

I think India would go for F-16s or F-18s under Make in India and go for the F-35s as and when they are available. The problem with F-35s is that India is at the back of the line and may have to wait for another 8-10 years for its turn.

 

[C130]

I think India would go for F-16s or F-18s under Make in India and go for the F-35s as and when they are available. The problem with F-35s is that India is at the back of the line and may have to wait for another 8-10 years for its turn.

in hindsight India should of chosen the F-18 for MRCA and the F-35 makes the most sense for a 5th gen fighter, but they want technology transfer and to use Indian made weapons/systems and I don't think U.S would give much to India on that front.

 

[ito]

I guess Modi has taken a prudent step in examining defence related deals with Russia. You cannot keep on pouring money with no outcome. Russia has to deliver what it has promised, which it always fails.

 

[dadeechi]

in hindsight India should of chosen the F-18 for MRCA and the F-35 makes the most sense for a 5th gen fighter, but they want technology transfer and to use Indian made weapons/systems and I don't think U.S would give much to India on that front.

That may be true in the past but now that the India-Russian relations have totally nosedived and only 36 RAFALEs coming, India would be well advised to go for the F-18s as part of Make in India and wait for the F-35s whenever they are available. That is the best case scenario. Hope the IAF doesn't mess up this time. India has already agreed to signup for the foundational agreements. so I am hopeful.

India to begin talks with US on signing 'foundational' defence accords | IHS Jane's 360

I guess Modi has taken a prudent step in examining defence related deals with Russia. You cannot keep on pouring money with no outcome. Russia has to deliver what it has promised, which it always fails.

After this huge failure, unfortunately, Indians are only left to take this position as a saving grace. World would surely see this as sour grapes.

 

[ito]

That may be true in the past but now that the India-Russian relations have totally nosedived and only 36 RAFALEs coming, India would be well advise to go for the F-18s as part of Make in India and wait for the F-35s whenever they are available. That is the best case scenario. Hope the IAF doesn't mess up this time. India has already agreed to signup for the foundational agreements. so I am hopeful.

India to begin talks with US on signing 'foundational' defence accords | IHS Jane's 360

I expect India Russia defense relations to go higher and not lower. This is a realty check for both countries. There is no doubt that Russia is the best defense partner that India can have.

 

[C130]

That may be true in the past but now that the India-Russian relations have totally nosedived and only 36 RAFALEs coming, India would be well advise to go for the F-18s as part of Make in India and wait for the F-35s whenever they are available. That is the best case scenario. Hope the IAF doesn't mess up this time. India has already agreed to signup for the foundational agreements. so I am hopeful.

India to begin talks with US on signing 'foundational' defence accords | IHS Jane's 360

if India was willing to buy 200+ U.S made F-35s I think it would be possible

India could buy

140 of the F-35A variant
60 of the F-35 B/C variant for India future aircraft carriers

and to set up India to maintain the F-35 and a weapons package you are looking at about $25 billion dollar deal

 

[ito]

After this huge failure, unfortunately, Indians are only left to take this position as a saving grace. World would surely see this as sour grapes.

Not at all. Can you tell me what is the status of PAK-FA? Even Russians themselves don't know. You cannot waste tax payers money on projects that have vague timelines, especially when they are related to defense.

 

[dadeechi]

if India was willing to buy 200+ U.S made F-35s I think it would be possible

India could buy

140 of the F-35A variant
60 of the F-35 B/C variant for India future aircraft carriers

and to set up India to maintain the F-35 and a weapons package you are looking at about $25 billion dollar deal

Money is no object here and India surely has the requirement. The issue is India would not see a 5th generation fighter for another decade while China may have it in the next 5 years. Also, China is already procuring s-400s from Russia which was declined to India. So India is now in a very precarious position vis-a-vis China in both offensive and defensive systems.

If a war breaks out in the next few years India may not survive as nation.

 

[BDforever]

Money is no object here and India surely has the requirement. The issue is India would not see a 5th generation fighter for another decade while China may have it in the next 5 years. Also, China is already procuring s-400s from Russia which was declined to India. So India is now in a very precarious position vis-a-vis China in both offensive and defensive systems.

If a war breaks out in the next few years India may not survive as nation.

and don't forget, within 5--7 years, India will have to decommission a big number of current fighter jets

 

[dadeechi]

and don't forget, within 5--7 years, India will have to decommission a big number of current fighter jets

No doubt. India is now in an unenvious position.

 

[PRC]

Money is no object here and India surely has the requirement. The issue is India would not see a 5th generation fighter for another decade while China may have it in the next 5 years. Also, China is already procuring s-400s from Russia which was declined to India. So India is now in a very precarious position vis-a-vis China in both offensive and defensive systems.

If a war breaks out in the next few years India may not survive as nation.

S-400 is not declined to India. The negotiations on S-400 and leasing of another nuclear sub is still on. It might take some time but it may happen. You need to understand that mere money cannot buy strategic weapons like S-400. I do not know for what reason you are floating these rumors.

One more thing regarding PAK FA. The IAF was not very excited with PAK FA. Within IAF, there is a large quarter which wants to go with RAFALE in larger numbers.