India's Nuclear Agreement

[nitesh]

Computer simulations have been good enough for all the big 5 to develop new warheads in last 20 years but laying hands on the cray computers and the relavent software was impossible for developing countries like India and Pakistan and now will be available to India only so maybe Indians will not physically test at all.

Regards

AN please check this:

http://www.barc.ernet.in/publications/nl/2007/200710-1.pdf

 

[Always Neutral]

And IF you are the harsh critic of this deal then the most importent line in the deal is.........
nuclear trade would have to be stopped by consensus in case of Indian testing
that means if a single country e.g. Russia or US disagree to terminate the deal with India if it test then the deal can not be terminated..

10 years down the line even if India physically tests than I doubt the NSG will raise a finger and hence its a bad deal for the world and good deal for India.

I would be worried what message this send out the worlds commitment to NPT.

Regards

 

[Marshal]

That's good one, do you have original version of NSG waiver? If yes, please post it.

It is in the 123 aggreement text and also in the IAEA draft....I will try my best to bring that text here by the evening....
I dont have the original version but NSA and Dr. Anil Kakodakar told in and interview to cnn-ibn channel exacly the same.......but I have this page.....
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[muse]

so maybe Indians will not physically test at all.

Maybe - a big maybe. Designs do not just go from elementary to advanced. But maybe in the simulation they do, and then the real world has to be confronted.

 

[Always Neutral]

Always neutral AKA Never Fair:

that's a classic, an India specific deal has a pakistan clause in it - You'r the best That was good.

My friend it does not have a Pakistan specific clause but now creates three classes of nations

The NSG and NPT signatories.
India
N Korea, Israel and Pakistan.


Hence if you test physically you will be treated differently from how India would be treated and you may read your defence attache's statement.

Regards

 

[muse]

Pakistan to the best of my knowledge, have declared that they will not test unless India, so that part is irrevelant to the debate that will ensue in India, at least it is my thinking that the debate in India is not done.

Statement of the defence attache? are you referring to the defence attache in the UAE?

 

[nitesh]

The point is are we going to see testing by any one in near future, answer is NO. So the whole debate of getting test conducted is useless

 

[Always Neutral]

The point is are we going to see testing by any one in near future, answer is NO. So the whole debate of getting test conducted is useless

So why not sign the NPT like the rest ?

Regards

 

[nitesh]

So why not sign the NPT like the rest ?

Regards

good point, the reason behind that is India is a nuclear weapons state apart from the 5 other countries which are in NSG. Most of the countries have not ratified it, because they want to keep there options open, same India is doing.

 

[Always Neutral]

Pakistan to the best of my knowledge, have declared that they will not test unless India, so that part is irrevelant to the debate that will ensue in India, at least it is my thinking that the debate in India is not done.

Statement of the defence attache? are you referring to the defence attache in the UAE?

But what is Pakistan getting for not testing ? Zilch. it will be still denied access to superior NSG technology for even civil use. u are being drawn into an arms race with one hands tied behind your back atleast in the nuclear field.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

good point, the reason behind that is India is a nuclear weapons state apart from the 5 other countries which are in NSG. Most of the countries have not ratified it, because they want to keep there options open, same India is doing.

No from what I have read its more due to lack of political consensus than to do with weapon development which stops your from signing the NPT. Anway thanks to the US you can eat the cake and have it to.

Regards

 

[nitesh]

But what is Pakistan getting for not testing ? Zilch. it will be still denied access to superior NSG technology for even civil use. u are being drawn into an arms race with one hands tied behind your back atleast in the nuclear field.

Regards

The point is getting out of context, how much nuclear arsenal pakistan needs to have minimum deterrent. Is there is a fix ration that needs to be kept like if India have 500 we need to have minimum 100. The answer is NO. Pakistan has nuclear bombs which can be used against India in case of war breaks out and if even one goes through the defenses there will be a huge loss for India or for that matter any country that goes on war with pakistan. So there is no question of arms race.

 

[nitesh]

No from what I have read its more due to lack of political consensus than to do with weapon development which stops your from signing the NPT. Anway thanks to the US you can eat the cake and have it to.

Regards

The point where the consensus is there is that we have a sovereign right to test. Nothing less then that. And NSG has accepted it.

 

[Marshal]

The Official Text of 123 aggreement on US Govt website

U.S. and India Release Text of 123 Agreement

IAEA safe guard aggreement text

http://www.hindu.com/nic/iaea-agreement.pdf


Full report of US congress official:


http://fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL33016.pdf
The above two reports clearly suggest that if any party wants to terminate they have to give reason and have to debate for atleast one year...

I will try to bring official text of india's aggreement with NSG as soon as possible....

This is Just for the information official separation plan of India

http://meaindia.nic.in/treatiesagreement/2006/11ta1105200601.pdf

 

[muse]

Ok sorry for being away:

If simulation is sufficient why not sign the NPT? Why have the other signatories not ratified -- could it be that perhaps simulation is not needs real world confirmation?

Always:

India get their cake and eat it too - yes, it's a huge plus - but that's not what we are talking about - our conversation was about why the Indian govt presented the deal in a hyper nationalistic context bad mouthing China and Pakistan -- in a earlier page there is a piece by an former Indian ambassador, in which he suggests that the reason for the nationalist context was to preempt criticism and shape the coming political debate.