India's Intel team returns home after US snub

[deckingraj]

I am becoming more and more skeptical of this whole affair.

Looks like the Indians (at the FBI's suggestion, no doubt) are cooking up a fake case to nab these 'suspects'.

Let me get this straight. They want to carry out attacks in India (and elsewhere) and want to use Pakistani accomplices, but they carry out their planning in the US, where the law enforcement infrastructure is 100 times more advanced than in India or Pakistan.

Sounds like a made up case.

Why you think so??? So far no one has put any finger on Pakistan...Anyways one of the reasons that these guys get multiple entry visa to india so easily is because of their US passport...You must have heard that GOI has immediately changed the VISA norms for people of Pakistan origin irrespective of their nationality... The below given article suggests GOI is mulling but few days back i read that instructions have been sent to Indian consulates abroad

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India [ Images ] is contemplating tightening the visa approval norms for Pakistan-born citizens of any country by making it mandatory for such applications to be cleared by the government.

The move will come in view of the busting of the Lashker-e-Tayiba plot, in which the Pakistan-based terror group was planning to use Pakistan-born US national David Coleman Headley and Canadian passport holder Tahawwur Hussain Rana to launch terror attacks in India.

"We are considering the step as terror groups may try to use Pakistani origin citizen of friendly countries for organising terror acts in India. We want to check that by conducting pre-verification of such visa applicants," a Home Ministry official said.

Because of the good relationship between India and the US, American citizens never have had any problem in receiving visas. This is applicable to many European countries, which too enjoy good relations with India.

The government is also mulling similar action on citizens born in countries like China, Afghanistan and Iran but holding passports of other countries.


Centre to tighten visa norms for Pak-born national: Rediff.com India News

 

[TopCat]

Thats funny... hw the hell Indians thought they could get the same access in USA that FBI get in India. USA still consider this sub continent as slave and them as master.. Poor Indians... LOL

 

[deckingraj]

Thats funny... hw the hell Indians thought they could get the same access in USA that FBI get in India. USA still consider this sub continent as slave and them as master.. Poor Indians... LOL

You know that you are part of this sub-continent...If you think you are a slave then its up to you but don't talk about rest of us...I am no body slave...as far as Indian investigators not getting hold of the guy just spare some time and read this thread apart from spitting venom...A lot has been discussed

 

[Spitfighter]

I am becoming more and more skeptical of this whole affair.

Skepticism is good.

Looks like the Indians (at the FBI's suggestion, no doubt) are cooking up a fake case to nab these 'suspects'.

, about time. You forgot to mention the Jews. Care to elaborate on your conspiracy theory? Conspiring to kill desis isn't a 'fake case', why would anyone make something like this up anyway? (I'm guessing you can enlighten me)

Let me get this straight. They want to carry out attacks in India (and elsewhere) and want to use Pakistani accomplices, but they carry out their planning in the US, where the law enforcement infrastructure is 100 times more advanced than in India or Pakistan.

Sounds like a made up case.

That's right, did you expect them to be smart? Sounds to me like you aren't skeptical, rather you are in denial.

With regard to your earlier post about the 'arrogant Indians' storming into the US 'demanding' the FBI hand over the suspects,

a) how in the world did you come to this conclusion? and b) stop ranting, if you can't comprehend what's going on around you, then I suggest you keep your nonsensical arguments to yourself.

 

[deckingraj]

More and more details are pouring in...Here is another interesting news...



Headley's father was a Pak diplomat
NDTV Correspondent, Thursday November 19, 2009, Washington

Fresh details are emerging on David Headley - one of the men at the centre of the 26/11 terror trail.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Headley, who is under the custody of the FBI in America, was born Daood Gilani and was taken out of Pakistan at the age of 16 where he attended a military school.

David Coleman Headley
Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer

* Born to Pakistani father, American mother
* Father was a prominent Pakistani diplomat
* Mother Serril ran Khyber Pass, a pub in Philadelphia
* Serril got custody of David in 1977
* Moved to America at the age of 16
* Headley ran a video store in Philadelphia
* 1997: Jailed for 15 months for heroin smuggling

David Headley was born to a Pakistani father and an American mother, his father was a prominent Pakistani diplomat. His mother, Serril Headley was a well known night spot owner in Philadelphia who died in 2008.

Headley's mother split from his father, but initially lost custody of her children in Pakistani courts. She finally succeeded in getting David out of Pakistan in 1977.

In Philadelphia, Headley who was raised as a Muslim, was having trouble adjusting to the idea that his mother ran a bar. Subsequently, he operated a video store, Fliks Video in the city centre of Philadelphia.

In 1997, Headley, under his birth name of Gilani, was convicted on federal charges in Brooklyn of smuggling heroin into the country. He was sentenced to 15 months in prison.

Daood Gilani changed his name to Headley in 2006 apparently to raise less suspicion when he traveled.

Headley's father was a Pak diplomat

 

[Developereo]

When Indian coordinated with FBI the suspects were in their custody interrogation was very much possible and easy.
By the time Indian officials visited US the suspects were transferred to Judicial custody which requires sufficient justification to convince the judges which was not possible in short time. The judge refused interrogation permission not FBI.

Please see below.

Why you think so??? So far no one has put any finger on Pakistan...Anyways one of the reasons that these guys get multiple entry visa to india so easily is because of their US passport...You must have heard that GOI has immediately changed the VISA norms for people of Pakistan origin irrespective of their nationality... The below given article suggests GOI is mulling but few days back i read that instructions have been sent to Indian consulates abroad

That's not the point. It doesn't matter if they were Swedish citizens.

The point is why would anyone planning an attack in India carry out their work under the most advanced and on-alert law enforcement infrastructure in the world?

The reason I am skeptical is that fake terrorism cases are not unheard of. There was the famous case in Macedonia where six Pakistani, and one possibly Indian, 'terrorists' were famously killed by the Macedonian police. Champagne and accolades all around. Only it appeared later on, when one of the policewomen had a pang of conscience, that the whole case had been staged. The men, all migrant workers lured on the promise of work, had been shot in cold blood and the whole thing had been staged as a feather in Macedonia's cap in the war against terrorism.

You forgot to mention the Jews.

Yawn.

A pathetic attempt to play the race card and derail the discussion. The last refuge of the incompetent when they can't address the issue itself.

 

[haawk]

The point is why would anyone planning an attack in India carry out their work under the most advanced and on-alert law enforcement infrastructure in the world?

.

are you saying that countries that have the most advanced law enforcement monitor each and every activity of its people......do you think that it is even possible!!!!!!!!!!

secondly...they only planned everything in other countries and have not executed their plans there.....every democracy allows its people to group around ....so they would not have problems to get to gether and make their plans...there is no country that has foolproof security or the law enforces in those countries do not have any authority to arrest people just because people of a paticular race group around and have a chat.....

no one in these countries would expect that the plots would be planned there....and Headly had a US passport but had a pakistani past and a criminal experience of smuggling heroin(SO MUCH FOR A MUSLIM WHO DID NOT LIKE THE FACT THAT HIS MOTHER OWNED A BAR) who else is the best target for the terrorists to exploit.




third britain also has one of the best lw enforcement ....but your A.Q.KHAN was able to get nuclear blueprints out .....

 

[Developereo]

A post full of irrelevant red herrings...

are you saying that countries that have the most advanced law enforcement monitor each and every activity of its people......do you think that it is even possible!!!!!!!!!!

Common sense. If you are a drug dealer, will you do business two blocks from the DEA office, or in some far away sleepy neighborhood?

countries do not have any authority to arrest people just because people of a paticular race group around and have a chat.....

Yet another pathetic attempt to bring race into the discussion.

no one in these countries would expect that the plots would be planned there....and Headly had a US passport but had a pakistani past and a criminal experience of smuggling heroin(SO MUCH FOR A MUSLIM WHO DID NOT LIKE THE FACT THAT HIS MOTHER OWNED A BAR) who else is the best target for the terrorists to exploit.

Yawn. Another red herring.
Are you suggesitng there is a shortage of possible accomplices in Pakistan (or even within India) that they had to shop around in Chicago?

third britain also has one of the best lw enforcement ....but your A.Q.KHAN was able to get nuclear blueprints out .....

Again, irrelevant to the issue at hand. The post 9/11 world is not like the 1980s.

You guys are really getting desperate here...

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^

Dude you have every right to be skeptical... No one is getting desperate to make you think otherwise...Please note that nothing has been proved yet..Investigations are on and based on that reports are coming out in media.... So far whatever is out in print media it makes one believe that this guy indeed have relations with LET....I think the only reason you are doubting this news is because of his connection with Pakistan...Please feel free to correct me...i think reasons you are giving that why will a person from US will come to Pakistan or India to plot terror attacks is flawed...I will say why not??? Let me give you example...more than half of the terrorists attacks planned in punjab during terrorism were plotted in UK and Canada(on purpose not using Pakistan name here for obvious reasons).....to me reason is quite simple..Any legal entry to India by Pak nationals goes through far more rigourous back ground checks than others(same is true in your country).....Don't you see that they got Indian visa very easliy because they are US/Canada nationals..Does it sound like any good reason for LET to influence such people...I shared with you that GOI has taken immediate steps to scrutanize people of Pakistan origin no matter what country netizens they are...

Here is one more link for you...

Pak father-son duo held in Italy for Mumbai attacks - India - The Times of India

P.S : everything can't be a plot...Having suspicion with the view point to know more before making up your mind is good thing...putting suspicion just for sake of it might not be...You have to choose which one you want to follow...

 

[Developereo]

to me reason is quite simple..Any legal entry to India by Pak nationals goes through far more rigourous back ground checks than others(same is true in your country).....Don't you see that they got Indian visa very easliy because they are US/Canada nationals..Does it sound like any good reason for LET to influence such people...

I will concede your point that extremism flourishes in the expat community. Don't mean to derail the thread, but I am told the extremist Hindu parties get a significant portion of their donations from expat Hindus. And the LTTE received much funding from Tamils in Europe and North America.

On the issue at hand, expats would make for bad operatives in the subcontinent. We Pakistanis and Indians are basically the same people and can blend in each others' society for the most part. But expats stand out a mile away. A local Pakistani would be able to blend in far better than an expat who has been living abroad for several years.

Also, the matter of visas is probably not too relevant. It is far preferable for any criminal to infiltrate through clandestine means than to leave an electronic trail. The Mumbai terrorists did not fly in on a commercial flight.

I don't know. Anything is possible, especially for a Denmark operation. We will have to wait and see.

 

[deckingraj]

I will concede your point that extremism flourishes in the expat community. Don't mean to derail the thread, but I am told the extremist Hindu parties get a significant portion of their donations from expat Hindus. And the LTTE received much funding from Tamils in Europe and North America.

No denial to that...Yes you are right expats are one of the major sources of money for extremists..be it Hindu..muslim..sikhs etc

On the issue at hand, expats would make for bad operatives in the subcontinent. We Pakistanis and Indians are basically the same people and can blend in each others' society for the most part. But expats stand out a mile away. A local Pakistani would be able to blend in far better than an expat who has been living abroad for several years.

Thats where i disagree...As far as these guys are concerned they are of pakistani origin so no issues of blending...One of them moved to US when he was 16 years old...Haven't you read that he was able to be-friend lot of bollywood presonalities...This was all because of him being an expat and comparative immune from suspicion...complemented by significant amount of teenage life in Pakistan...

Also, the matter of visas is probably not too relevant. It is far preferable for any criminal to infiltrate through clandestine means than to leave an electronic trail. The Mumbai terrorists did not fly in on a commercial flight.

Exactly...my comments was about Legal visits are concerned...People who did mumbai carnage were not legal visitors but i hope you understand you need the ground information to plan such an attack...Now what role did this guy play(if any) is yet to be known

I don't know. Anything is possible, especially for a Denmark operation. We will have to wait and see.

You are right lets wait and see...I even said its absolutely fine if your suspicion is because you would like to wait for more proofs to come out...My objections was if its otherwise...

I rest my case with that comments of yours We will have to wait and see...

 

[deckingraj]

Some more news pouring in...

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US suspects ISI link to Headley
NDTV Correspondent, Sunday November 22, 2009, Geneva

Sources say that American investigators may be close to a breakthrough in the Headley-Rana terror plot.

There are reports that US investigators have zeroed in on a Pakistani national suspected to be a key link between Lashkar operatives David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana - allegedly involved in the Mumbai attacks.

The Pakistani national, whose identity has been kept secret, is believed to have been in Pakistan at the time of November attacks in Mumbai.

The US also believes some elements in the ISI may be linked to Headley.

Sources also say records show that Headley and Rana made calls to the same numbers that were in touch with the LeT attackers in Taj Palace Hotel and Towers and Trident Hotel during 26/11.

India and the US are in constant touch on the Headley case and Washington has conveyed that within a week there could be "authentic" information on whether the duo were involved in the 26/11 attacks, sources said.

Headley, a Pakistan-born US citizen, and Rana, Pak-born Canadian citizen, were arrested last month by FBI for allegedly plotting terror attacks in India and Denmark. Indian investigators have found that the duo had visited India a number of times and toured various places apparently to conduct reconnaissance. (With PTI inputs)


US suspects ISI link to Headley

 

[boxer_B]

We will hit India hard: Headley in emails to friends - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: David Coleman Headley, the Pakistan-origin US national who is suspected of plotting another version of 26/11, showed his feelings for India in emails to his old schoolmates. Writing about India earlier this year, after the Mumbai attacks when ties between India and Pakistan were particularly low, Headley is reported to have said, “We will retaliate against India.”

These messages were sent by Headley to a Yahoo groups site with his former schoolmates from Hasan Abdal military school in Pakistan. The students call themselves ‘Abdalians’. These remarks were part of impassioned discussions about politics and Islam, a report in the New York Times said.

In the aftermath of the Mumbai blasts, when Pakistan feared that India would attack it, terror group leaders like Baitullah Mehsud (Indian RAW agent ) openly came out to say that they would fight against India on the side of Pakistan if hostilities broke out. Headley was clearly of the same persuasion.

The NYT report said that in his email chats, Headley also complained about “NATO criminal vermin dropping 22,000 lbs bombs on unsuspecting, unarmed Afghan villagers” or “napalming southeast Asian farmers”.

When a Polish engineer was beheaded by the Taliban in Pakistan, Headley wrote, “The best way for a man to die is with the sword.” The FBI indictment against Headley, the report said, shows that Headley was at ease being both Islamic Pakistani and American. But somewhere along the line, though he embraced the American name David Headley, his beliefs were hardening into more extremist directions.

His uncle William Headley, who owns a day care centre in Nottingham, Pennsylvania, was quoted as saying, “Most people have contradictions in their lives but they learn to reconcile them. But Daood could never do that. The left side does not speak to the right side. And that’s the problem.” A news report by New York Times paints terror accused David Coleman Headley as someone with a Pakistani Muslim wife in Chicago but a make-up artist as a girlfriend in New York.

In an email posting to his schoolmates, he said, “Some of us are saying that ‘terrorism’ is the weapon of the cowardly... I will say that you may call it barbaric or immoral or cruel, but never cowardly.” He added, “Courage is, by and large, exclusive to the Muslim nation.”

The cases of Headley and the Fort Hood shooter Major Nidal Hasan has focused attention on home-grown Islamism in the US.

Headley, like 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, did not come from the poor, indoctrinated madrasas of Pakistan, instead hailed from a more educated westernised background. Headley was born in Washington to parents who worked as diplomats and officials at the Pakistani embassy. Not long after their wedding, Headley’s mother Serill left Pakistan because she could not reconcile to the life there and moved back to the US. Headley was brought back to the US by his mother in 1977 to live as an American

 

[bigmoneymaker]

why you will be snubbed by your close ally usa?? dont you both have the same goal in containing china and destabilizing pak??? then how can this happen to you?? is it because you are not obedient enough to adhere to usa lectures and orders??

 

[SSGPA1]

why you will be snubbed by your close ally usa?? dont you both have the same goal in containing china and destabilizing pak??? then how can this happen to you?? is it because you are not obedient enough to adhere to usa lectures and orders??

THEY ARE IN THE LEARNING CURVE

I am happy that the USA & India are best buddies because we have suffered for 60 years under that so called alliance and now its India's turn

First the snub then the IAF will buy US tech ... a dream come true