India’s huge need for electricity is a problem for the planet

[Bussard Ramjet]

I checked the article, it used info from another WP article:

Without electricity, 1.3 billion are living in the dark - Washington Post​

And in that article, they used data from International Energy Agency, check below:

IEA - Energy access database​

Extract:
"Worldwide 1.3 billion people – a population equivalent to that of the entire OECD – continue to live without access to electricity. This is equivalent to 18% of the global population and 22% of those living in developing countries. Nearly 97% of those without access to electricity live in sub-Saharan Africa and developing Asia. The latest estimate for sub-Saharan Africa has been revised up by 22 million, illustrating how rapid population growth can continue to outpace the rate of electrification in many countries and conceal the progress that has been made. In developing Asia, the general trend shows an improving picture, but the pace varies. The largest populations without electricity are in India, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Democratic Republic of Congo (DR Congo) and Indonesia. "​

I downloaded the database
http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/media/weowebsite/WEO2014Electricitydatabase1.xlsx
View attachment 271404​

I think I will agree with your statistics related to "electrification rate" since it is not talking about electricity usage. Electricity usage will be higher, because, as I say, many people just steal electricity without a proper connection.

The figures I quoted are from World Bank. So slightly more trustworthy source then your dodgy claims. In Pakistan we have massive illegal theft. In fact electricity theft has crippled the supply companies. Google and you will find out. Even the army at one stage had to be used because nobody pays and there are organized rackets.

The loadsheding is because of massive theft and aggregate demand which the supply side cannot service. because of lack of energy in the country. Thus need for gas as unlike India we don't have any economic coal.

I can understand. Because Pakistan is almost always one step behind India. India also has massive thefts of electricity, but not organized rackets.

Also, World Bank stats are based on country's own fillings, which can vary according to definition.

Also, electricity production is by far the best parameter, because there is better data estimate of production since it is localized, and centralized at some places.

Pakistan has a population that is a 1/6 that of India. But its electricity production is 1/13 that of India.

That is pakistan's electricity production per capita is half that of India.

 

[Srinivas]

India’s huge need for electricity is a problem for the planet - The Washington Post

Of the world’s 1.3 billion people who live without access to power, a quarter — about 300 million — live in rural India in states such as Bihar. Nighttime satellite images of the sprawling subcontinent show the story: Vast swaths of the country still lie in darkness.

Is this statistic right !?

@Bussard Ramjet @Shotgunner51

Just shut down some of the power plants in China and let India build its own, if you worry about the globe.

This is all B.S and the stats they put are also not accurate.

 

[nForce]

The figures used by Washington Post are factually incorrect in particular with referance to Pakistan. I have driven to remote mountain valleys in Pakistan and even tiny hamlets have electricity so I was surprised to see that Pak according to WP figures has 32% without electricty which is utter rubbish. If it did Pakistan would be behind India. However a quick check with World Bank reveals that Pakistan has ONLY 6%, yes just 6% without electricity with "Shining progress India" at 22% without electricty which is similar to what Washington quotes. Of course American media have now gone from lambasting Pakistan to now spreading outright lies as evidenced by the misleading figure they quoted in their graphs. You would thing Washington Post would get their figures correct.

World Bank > Access to electricity (% of population) | Data | Table

Pak > 93.6%
India > 78.7%

This information is deceiving, highly. Only in June this year, Pakistan was facing an electricity shortage of 5500MW, against a demand of 21000 MW. Thats more than 25% of shortfall.
Even the urban areas, cities like Karachi, were facing 16-18 hours of power cut.
Electricity shortfall reaches 5500 MW in Pakistan | Pakistan | Dunya News

This is like giving a plate to a hungry and serving nothing on the plate. What's the point ?

In case of India, the shortfall is projected at 2.1% in 2015-16.

India's energy shortage projected at 2.1% in 2015-16 | Business Standard News

At topic, the per capita electricity consumption in US is more 12000KWH, where has in India it recently touched 1000KWH during the peak summer earlier this year.

I think these Americans writing these articles should practice what they preach.

 

[Shotgunner51]

I think I will agree with your statistics related to "electrification rate" since it is not talking about electricity usage. Electricity usage will be higher, because, as I say, many people just steal electricity without a proper connection.

Also, electricity production is by far the best parameter, because there is better data estimate of production since it is localized, and centralized at some places.

View attachment 271410 View attachment 271411

Those stats used by these WP articles (sourced from IEA) should be among the most reliable so far, the findings basically commensurate with general economic/infra status of various countries.

About electricity production (Btw, why EU data is included but no ASEAN?), factor in T&D (Transmission & Distribution) losses to calculation before it arrives at consumers. T&D loss is close to 20% in india, probably as a result of aging infrastructure (grid) and theft as you mentioned. That's why when most discussions on PDF are about electricity production like nuclear, clean-energy, etc., I raise the attention on grid, say long distance UHV transmission, smart grid, etc.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This information is deceiving, highly. Only in June this year, Pakistan was facing an electricity shortage of 5500MW, against a demand of 21000 MW. Thats more than 25% of shortfall.
Even the urban areas, cities like Karachi, were facing 16-18 hours of power cut.
Electricity shortfall reaches 5500 MW in Pakistan | Pakistan | Dunya News

This is like giving a plate to a hungry and serving nothing on the plate. What's the point ?

In case of India, the shortfall is projected at 2.1% in 2015-16.

India's energy shortage projected at 2.1% in 2015-16 | Business Standard News

At topic, the per capita electricity consumption in US is more 12000KWH, where has in India it recently touched 1000KWH during the peak summer earlier this year.

I think these Americans writing these articles should practice what they preach.

That Pakistan has massive power deficit is well know fact. Presently it occupies the prime time news. The deficit is because demand far exceeds supply. Supply has failed to keep up with the increasing network because Pakistan is woefully inadequate in energy. Most countries fall back on coal ( as India or China do ) but Pakistan has no viable coal thus we are forced to depend on hydro, gas or expensive oil. This has crippled the supply side.

The two options of hydro or gas have faced their own unique dynamics. The former has been subject to internal politics where one province won't agree with the other and external finance issues because increasingly dams are seen as displacing people etc. The gas has fallen victim to US geopolitics and their sanctioning of Iran.

However now things are finally moving. Huge dam on upper Indus ( Diamer Bhasha ) has began construction and the chance of pipeline has increased so we look with some guarded optimism.

And everybody gets electricity - even in remote areas only that is subject to loadshedding. So your analogy with "plate with no food" does not fit. Plate with rationed portion would be more appropriate.

 

[rocket booster]

Dont worry, many of them fertilize the ground also. In 50 years, they will be the largest producers of organic fertilizers. They help the earth more than they hurt it.

Lol your country is so backward that your country buys electricity from other countries. Your country also begged for the same to India. Your country wanted electricity from. So much atomi supa powa.
India's shortage is 2.1% but it will be over by 2018 to 2019. Do you know India adds almost 20 to 30 times more electricity to it's grids than Pakistan.
Yes, 30 to 40 times.
I also saw at the start of this year how a atomi supa powa was paralyzed and was forced to use bail gaadi in 21st century during shortage of gas or petroleum products in Pakistan. That too because you were refused a loan to pay the bills of the deserved companies.
At last Pakistan is the well served atomi supa powah.

 

[Echo_419]

India’s huge need for electricity is a problem for the planet - The Washington Post

Of the world’s 1.3 billion people who live without access to power, a quarter — about 300 million — live in rural India in states such as Bihar. Nighttime satellite images of the sprawling subcontinent show the story: Vast swaths of the country still lie in darkness.

Is this statistic right !?

@Bussard Ramjet @Shotgunner51

Massive Chinese & American demand are also a major problem

 

[Manindra]

That Pakistan has massive power deficit is well know fact. Presently it occupies the prime time news. The deficit is because demand far exceeds supply. Supply has failed to keep up with the increasing network because Pakistan is woefully inadequate in energy. Most countries fall back on coal ( as India or China do ) but Pakistan has no viable coal thus we are forced to depend on hydro, gas or expensive oil. This has crippled the supply side.

You are ill-informed about this matter.
Pakistan have enough coal in thar to burn for 200 years in furnace , its not a good quality (lignite) but can be used in power plants after processing. We used nearly same coal which found in Nagpur area.
In Manmohan era prior to 26/11, we proposed to GoP that if they are not using Thar coal then allt us, we would mine, transport & use it in our power plants in Rajasthan.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Lol your country is so backward that your country buys electricity from other countries. Your country also begged for the same to India. Your country wanted electricity from. So much atomi supa powa.
India's shortage is 2.1% but it will be over by 2018 to 2019. Do you know India adds almost 20 to 30 times more electricity to it's grids than Pakistan.
Yes, 30 to 40 times.
I also saw at the start of this year how a atomi supa powa was paralyzed and was forced to use bail gaadi in 21st century during shortage of gas or petroleum products in Pakistan. That too because you were refused a loan to pay the bills of the deserved companies.
At last Pakistan is the well served atomi supa powah.

Had you read the thread, I have already cited figures.

India produces around 12-13 times the electricity produced by Pakistan, which has a population a sixth that of India.

So, India produces around twice per capita electricity than Pakistan.

The figure is NOT 20 or 30 or 40 times.

Also, I find that your language is rather rude, and perhaps you should just stick to point, and give facts, instead of trolling, and abusing and getting marred in the troll game.

 

[Echo_419]

Those stats used by these WP articles (sourced from IEA) should be among the most reliable so far, the findings basically commensurate with general economic/infra status of various countries.

About electricity production (Btw, why EU data is included but no ASEAN?), factor in T&D (Transmission & Distribution) losses to calculation before it arrives at consumers. T&D loss is close to 20% in india, probably as a result of aging infrastructure (grid) and theft as you mentioned. That's why when most discussions on PDF are about electricity production like nuclear, clean-energy, etc., I raise the attention on grid, say long distance UHV transmission, smart grid, etc.

Govt has devised a great strategy for this
1.Massive investment in T&D infra
2.A new scheme 'UDAY' has been launched which will ensure that States & their Discoms perform or their will be no union/central funding for them.What'd good is that every single state has agreed to this plan

On topic
Author is a class1 hypocrite

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

That Pakistan has massive power deficit is well know fact. Presently it occupies the prime time news. The deficit is because demand far exceeds supply. Supply has failed to keep up with the increasing network because Pakistan is woefully inadequate in energy. Most countries fall back on coal ( as India or China do ) but Pakistan has no viable coal thus we are forced to depend on hydro, gas or expensive oil. This has crippled the supply side.

The two options of hydro or gas have faced their own unique dynamics. The former has been subject to internal politics where one province won't agree with the other and external finance issues because increasingly dams are seen as displacing people etc. The gas has fallen victim to US geopolitics and their sanctioning of Iran.

However now things are finally moving. Huge dam on upper Indus ( Diamer Bhasha ) has began construction and the chance of pipeline has increased so we look with some guarded optimism.

And everybody gets electricity - even in remote areas only that is subject to loadshedding. So your analogy with "plate with no food" does not fit. Plate with rationed portion would be more appropriate.

As others said, you have enough coal in thar deposits.

Also, the question about energy production is mainly related to a wholesome supply from all kind of sources. Electricity is one area where government initiative and efforts are required.

In Pakistan many projects are proposed and never take off, due to variety of reasons, including corruption, sectarian politics, center-state bickering, nepotism etc.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

yeah...America's consumption of 40 times India's energy every year is not a problem for the planet. Instead of asking India not to consume what is a basic need, America should try to cut down on it's bloated consumption. And yeah, china should cut down even more.....

Exactly!

Americans not only have some of the highest levels of per capita consumption of electricity, fossil fuels, water and environmentally damaging meat/beef/pork, but can't help but show their concern for the planet when India tries basic electrification of her rural landmass, while at the same chiding India for not providing electricity to 300 Million Indians!

"If India’s carbon emissions continue to rise, by 2040 it will overtake the United States as the world’s second-highest emitter, behind only China, according to estimates by the International Energy Agency."

Indians consume far less amount of power/water/meat/fossil fuels per capita! Mind you, not all of it for lack of choice!

"Yet the Indian government has long argued that the United States and other industrialized nations bear a greater responsibility for the cumulative damage to the environment from carbon emissions than developing nations — with Modi urging “climate justice” and chiding Western nations to change their wasteful ways."

It is amazing how the role of US/West is totally brushed under the carpet with a simple and vague-sounding "cumulative damage" for the enormous environmental damage caused by them for more than a century!

What is even more preposterous is how the developed nations hesitate and in some cases, out-rightly deny the latest technology to India and other developing countries when it comes to renewable energy while at the same time, demanding India to close all the polluting coal plants.

 

[nForce]

You are ill-informed about this matter.
Pakistan have enough coal in thar to burn for 200 years in furnace , its not a good quality (lignite) but can be used in power plants after processing. We used nearly same coal which found in Nagpur area.
In Manmohan era prior to 26/11, we proposed to GoP that if they are not using Thar coal then allt us, we would mine, transport & use it in our power plants in Rajasthan.

Thanks for the info.
I believe there was also a proposal to sell our surplus production to Pakistan ?

 

[Manindra]

Thanks for the info.
I believe there was also a proposal to sell our surplus production to Pakistan ?

If you mean electricity then yes.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Lol your country is so backward that your country buys electricity from other countries. Your country also begged for the same to India. Your country wanted electricity from. So much atomi supa powa.
India's shortage is 2.1% but it will be over by 2018 to 2019. Do you know India adds almost 20 to 30 times more electricity to it's grids than Pakistan.
Yes, 30 to 40 times.
I also saw at the start of this year how a atomi supa powa was paralyzed and was forced to use bail gaadi in 21st century during shortage of gas or petroleum products in Pakistan. That too because you were refused a loan to pay the bills of the deserved companies.
At last Pakistan is the well served atomi supa powah.

You guys have so much fertilizers; that you are trying to to blabber it out on PDF; but your attempt has failed.