Indians scamming Australians : News 9 report

[PakSword]

There is no such thing as black magic, some clowns are making money from fools like you.

There is black magic, but its another thing that most people don't know how to perform it, or how to cure it.

Most of the people who claim that they know magic are jokers, as well as those who call themselves healers..

Prophet Muhammad was subjected to magic as well, there is a clear evidence of this account in Hadith.

Jinn are also mentioned in Quran and anyone who doesn't believe on these unseen creatures is denying the word of Allah.

Similarly, there are angels, who are not seen too..

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

9:38 why he has picture of the holy Kaaba ? hey you disgusting pathetic Indians, keep your Hindu BS out of Islam , we have enough of our own fake clerics and healers to deal with .

Where?

 

[Nityam]

It is despicable, but scammers come in all shapes,sizes and colours.
A larger point on this is that the current wave of immigrants from south asia is similar to the first waves of sub-continent migrants to the US in the 70s and 80s, comprising of not very sophisticated immigrants mostly doing menial jobs.
Like in the US, their naturalised future generations should become model citizens.
Hence not that big a deal

Why is it despicable ? He is just another scammer trying to make a living in this world run by sophisticated scammers.

It is the scammers lack of sophistication that makes him a target. If he was sophisticated he would have been hailed a hero and movies like "Oceans Eleven" and series like "hustle" would be made about him.

What is a "Model citizen" ? a sophisticated scammer certified by a Western university.

getting scammed if the victim's fault most o fthe time

How is it a scam when the victim willing buys what they are selling ?

Like the chumps who buy "mutual funds" that "guarantee" to double your money, only they don't and then they tell you its the markets fault.

Or the guy who lets google track his every online move so that they can monetize it and sell his personal to others for a price so that they can all target that user to get some money out of him.

Astrologers are scammers everywhere in the world. Most of them are scamming other Indians in India.

LOL. Why only Astrologers ?

What about "Economists" who claim to predict the future of economies ?

If Economists were any more real than astrologers then they too would be some of the riches men on the planet and would own homes on water fronts. Only they are not.

Economists too claim to use "science" and maths to predict the future, same as Astrologer who use the same maths and and science to track positions of starts and planets.

Only Economists get "noble prize" which of course is just another scam.

There is a reason why these whole lot get bunched under "arts" while claiming to be "science".

 

[Hindustani78]

Black Magic is real and works. Just not how the hindus think it does. Black magic should be a criminal act worthy of jail.

Black Magic is the work of Satan which is to kill every single human being.

If you are a Muslim then you are bound to believe in Jinn and their relationship with man.

Jinn are Shayateen

 

[paritosh]

Why is it despicable ? He is just another scammer trying to make a living in this world run by sophisticated scammers.

It is the scammers lack of sophistication that makes him a target. If he was sophisticated he would have been hailed a hero and movies like "Oceans Eleven" and series like "hustle" would be made about him.

What is a "Model citizen" ? a sophisticated scammer certified by a Western university.

I am not going to indulge in a conversation premised on a conspiracy theory. I think you are mistaking corruption for scams. Corruption is pervasive, scams are not. I don't believe the world is run by sophisticated scammers.
Sophisticated scams like all scams get called out when people assess the value exchanges involved, which tells us two things:
a) People (govts, watchdogs, etc.) actively seek and destroy scams
b) No scam is sophisticated enough to not be called out (follow the net value trail)

The level of sophistication is relative to the range of IQ the scammer targets, in India such astrologers and godmen run a host of scams and make a lot of money because they deal with a population that has a sizeable proportion of semi-literate/aware people.
In a country like Australia, this level of sophistication seems laughable, gets called out and brings a bad name to the entire demography, which otherwise has people trying to add real value and cement their place in the AU growth story.
You can make a movie/celebrate/vilify in the fullness of time, but the immediate effects involve bad press, arrests and a net negative image.

On a side note, I am not a big fan of the Indian/south asian work ethos. There is a reason as to why we have not been able to do much over the last 7 decades while the map of the rest of the world has had a tectonic shift. We have too few perfectionists amongst our ranks and most of us believe in quick-fixes, jugaads and gaming the system. Hence I feel sad each time this hypothesis gets proven right by acts such as the one the topic of this thread covers.

 

[loanranger]

You're the type of guy to torture some poor mentally ill guy because you believe there is a Jinn in them. There is no evidence of invisible Genies possessing people and making them do funny stuff.

No I have better things to do then lying to people and pretending to solve their problems. However, I do believe in the unseen. Any science that is not understood by man is known as magic.

Jinn are Shayateen

Not all. There are good Jinn and bad Jinn. Just like man. There are Muslim jinn and others too. They are not made up of the same type of matter that we are.

 

[Nityam]

I am not going to indulge in a conversation premised on a conspiracy theory. I think you are mistaking corruption for scams. Corruption is pervasive, scams are not. I don't believe the world is run by sophisticated scammers.
Sophisticated scams like all scams get called out when people assess the value exchanges involved, which tells us two things:
a) People (govts, watchdogs, etc.) actively seek and destroy scams
b) No scam is sophisticated enough to not be called out (follow the net value trail)

And I think you are making the common mistake of considering a scam as corruption.

Scams are far more pervasive than corruption. They are one of the foundation organs of the modern economy. Only they go by different names like "Advertising", "Marketing" or just plain "Certifications".

The Value exchange in ANY capitalist society and economy is always ONE SIDED, which is why the rich get ricer and the poor gets poorer. Check the history of any "Modern" economy and you will see that the disparity between the Rich and poor has steadily increased and not decreased. THIS is where "value exchange" leads, only to be tempered by the Laws and Media run by another scammer nexus.

Watchdogs and govt's only REGULATE scams , they do not shut it down or destroy it. The same way one cannot shut down crime and crime rate, only regulate and control it. Which is why Tendulkar can come on TV and say "Boost is the secret of my energy" or Kareena kapoor can come on TV and say "Lux is the secret of my beauty". Regulated scams by sophisticated nexus that run the economy.

Its Naive and hilarious that you claim no scam is sophisticated enough to be not called out. What you fail to realize is that the world is run by sophisticated scammers. Both politicians and Capitalists.

Scams like "Insurance" that promise to cover up your illness or loss, only they don't and find "legal loopholes" to not pay you. Plenty of people has called out this scam, only to have their voices drowned out by the Media and the powers that be.

The level of sophistication is relative to the range of IQ the scammer targets, in India such astrologers and godmen run a host of scams and make a lot of money because they deal with a population that has a sizeable proportion of semi-literate/aware people.
In a country like Australia, this level of sophistication seems laughable, gets called out and brings a bad name to the entire demography, which otherwise has people trying to add real value and cement their place in the AU growth story.
You can make a movie/celebrate/vilify in the fullness of time, but the immediate effects involve bad press, arrests and a net negative image.

So your argument is that high IQ scammer and good looking scammers are acceptable but Low IQ scammers and ugly scammers are a blot on society ?

A beautiful girl giving you a sob story or a vague promise of distant pleasure can make you cough up a dinner or a foreign trip or even Cash, but an ugly astrologer doing the same is laughable.

For the record its blatantly RACIST to call these particular scammers "Indian" since they are clearly not. They are AUSTRALIAN citizens who are scamming other Australian citizens.

I am yet to see Dawood Ibrahim get "arrested" or get negative image. His daughter married the son of one of the most famous cricket stars of pakistan. That is how "negative" his image is. Or even Rahul gandhi get arrested for his multiple scams. (out on bail)

On a side note, I am not a big fan of the Indian/south asian work ethos. There is a reason as to why we have not been able to do much over the last 7 decades while the map of the rest of the world has had a tectonic shift. We have too few perfectionists amongst our ranks and most of us believe in quick-fixes, jugaads and gaming the system. Hence I feel sad each time this hypothesis gets proven right by acts such as the one the topic of this thread covers.

That is your personal bias and prejudice and has nothing to do with the topic. You are free to hate Indians, south asians, muslims, chinese, jews or americans and disguise your hate with "rationality".

I personally have found a far greater degree on honesty and a total lack of desire among majority Indians to get involved in scams or dream up sophisticated scams that make them "modern" and "capitalist icons".

 

[paritosh]

Scams are far more pervasive than corruption. They are one of the foundation organs of the modern economy. Only they go by different names like "Advertising", "Marketing" or just plain "Certifications".

The Value exchange in ANY capitalist society and economy is always ONE SIDED, which is why the rich get ricer and the poor gets poorer. Check the history of any "Modern" economy and you will see that the disparity between the Rich and poor has steadily increased and not decreased. THIS is where "value exchange" leads, only to be tempered by the Laws and Media run by another scammer nexus.

Watchdogs and govt's only REGULATE scams , they do not shut it down or destroy it. The same way one cannot shut down crime and crime rate, only regulate and control it. Which is why Tendulkar can come on TV and say "Boost is the secret of my energy" or Kareena kapoor can come on TV and say "Lux is the secret of my beauty". Regulated scams by sophisticated nexus that run the economy.

Its Naive and hilarious that you claim no scam is sophisticated enough to be not called out. What you fail to realize is that the world is run by sophisticated scammers. Both politicians and Capitalists.

This is getting into the realm of philosophy. As a business consultant, I disagree with every word in your post. Scams conceal the value exchange dynamic, and your critique of capitalism is fundamentally flawed. The overall effect of capitalism is to lift the baseline of prosperity, despite an increasing income inequality (why is that bad if you end-up making more than you'd in a comparable socialist system or when compared to historical figures?). I mean I need a starting point to engage in a discussion with you, what is the source of your hypothesis? What are your thoughts on the works of Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes, Ayn Rand's Invisible hand of the market, etc.?
How is an increasing income disparity, qualified by a free market that only supports business which sell better value in a better way is equal to a scam where information is concealed and the asymmetry exploited?
Scams are criminalised. You need to provide me with a workable definition of what you think a scam is.

Scams like "Insurance" that promise to cover up your illness or loss, only they don't and find "legal loopholes" to not pay you. Plenty of people has called out this scam, only to have their voices drowned out by the Media and the powers that be.

Insurance. is. not. a. scam.
The offsetting of risk = value >= insurance premium
It is the same as Freemium turned inside out.

So your argument is that high IQ scammer and good looking scammers are acceptable but Low IQ scammers and ugly scammers are a blot on society ?
A beautiful girl giving you a sob story or a vague promise of distant pleasure can make you cough up a dinner or a foreign trip or even Cash, but an ugly astrologer doing the same is laughable.

What have looks got to do with anything? You keep bringing unrelated variables into this. Scams are criminalised, you reports one, the agencies would try the sammer irregardless of age, gender, hotness...

For the record its blatantly RACIST to call these particular scammers "Indian" since they are clearly not. They are AUSTRALIAN citizens who are scamming other Australian citizens.

I am an AU resident not a citizen, there are more residents than citizens here from foreign nations. If I go out and scam someone, an Indian national would be tried.
Unlike what you are used to in India, the media agencies are very careful in labelling the perps as "a foreign national" in case the country of origin has not been established, "an x national" if it has been or "an Australian".
I don't how racism is involved here. Also that "Indian" is not a race.

I am yet to see Dawood Ibrahim get "arrested" or get negative image. His daughter married the son of one of the most famous cricket stars of pakistan. That is how "negative" his image is. Or even Rahul gandhi get arrested for his multiple scams. (out on bail)

Dawood is irrelevant. Bail is a constitutional provision built into the penal system on humanitarian grounds, don't understand the relevance here as well.

That is your personal bias and prejudice and has nothing to do with the topic. You are free to hate Indians, south asians, muslims, chinese, jews or americans and disguise your hate with "rationality".

It actually is a generalisation borne out of hard statistics on the employment spectrum of south asian migrants in Australia. What is disguised rationality? if it is not rational, should be easy to punch holes into the logic. Let's see you do that.

I personally have found a far greater degree on honesty and a total lack of desire among majority Indians to get involved in scams or dream up sophisticated scams that make them "modern" and "capitalist icons".

I have not used emojis in a long time, but I can't help but use them right now...
Have you heard of tech support scams? or the IRS scams? or the Australian taxation department scams?
What is the common denominator you may ask...the are quite sophisticated and are run out of Indian call centres.

 

[Nityam]

This is getting into the realm of philosophy. As a business consultant, I disagree with every word in your post. Scams conceal the value exchange dynamic, and your critique of capitalism is fundamentally flawed. The overall effect of capitalism is to lift the baseline of prosperity, despite an increasing income inequality (why is that bad if you end-up making more than you'd in a comparable socialist system or when compared to historical figures?). I mean I need a starting point to engage in a discussion with you, what is the source of your hypothesis? What are your thoughts on the works of Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes, Ayn Rand's Invisible hand of the market, etc.?
How is an increasing income disparity, qualified by a free market that only supports business which sell better value in a better way is equal to a scam where information is concealed and the asymmetry exploited?
Scams are criminalised. You need to provide me with a workable definition of what you think a scam is.

First of all I am not providing a "critique" of capitalism, I am just stating facts about capitalism. If you find that critical then there is a problem with your perspective.

You have just provided the legal argument for scams that if they can lift people out of poverty then its a good thing, especially if they increase income inequality. Now you know why scammers in that video did not have water front houses.

Entire industry of Arbitrage is based on asymmetry exploitation. Be it labor, capital, commodity or time. And very many times this information is hard to come by and is concealed under confidential information or "sensitive data". That is how they restrict competition and keep the entry barriers high.

About criminalizing scams, that is how they are "regulated" and controlled.

I don't have to provide a workable definition of a scam since there are no scams. Unsophisticated business transactions are called scams by unsatisfied customers.

Insurance. is. not. a. scam.
The offsetting of risk = value >= insurance premium
It is the same as Freemium turned inside out.

The valuation of "risk" itself is a scam and is not a science but an "estimate" based on guesstimate.

The objective being to make the insurance company maximize its profit by denying customers/victims as much money as possible.

Statistical probabilities used to estimate risk is no different that using them to predict the future. Something Astrologers have done quite successfully for thousands of years.

What have looks got to do with anything? You keep bringing unrelated variables into this. Scams are criminalised, you reports one, the agencies would try the sammer irregardless of age, gender, hotness...

That is the defining trait.

Scams that are covered by Law and those that are outlawed due to lack of sophistication or due to lack of scale/size where there are not enough fingers in the pie. Make the pie large enough with enough fingers in that scam and they will make it legal.

Like Homeopathy or Psychiatry or Universities.

I am an AU resident not a citizen, there are more residents than citizens here from foreign nations. If I go out and scam someone, an Indian national would be tried.
Unlike what you are used to in India, the media agencies are very careful in labelling the perps as "a foreign national" in case the country of origin has not been established, "an x national" if it has been or "an Australian".
I don't how racism is involved here. Also that "Indian" is not a race.

A media trial is not the same as a legal trial.

Legal trial is in a controlled environment, A media trial is an exercise in social discrimination and perpetuating stereotypes.

Dawood is irrelevant. Bail is a constitutional provision built into the penal system on humanitarian grounds, don't understand the relevance here as well.

Relevance is the lack of any serious repercussions to High profile scammers like Rahul Gandhi or Kapil Sibal who continues to be a Supreme court advocate.

Is a "scam" only when you are poor and unsophisticated. That was always the point.

It actually is a generalisation borne out of hard statistics on the employment spectrum of south asian migrants in Australia. What is disguised rationality? if it is not rational, should be easy to punch holes into the logic. Let's see you do that.

It is for you to provide the hard statistics to prove there is a scientific basis for your hate. I am not required to prove a negative. Clearly logic is not your strong suite.

I have not used emojis in a long time, but I can't help but use them right now...
Have you heard of tech support scams? or the IRS scams? or the Australian taxation department scams?
What is the common denominator you may ask...the are quite sophisticated and are run out of Indian call centres.

I have also heard of Australian university scams that offer the possibility of getting citizenship if Indians pay thousands of dollars to get worthless degrees from Australian universities.

or Australian fake marriage scams, or Australian work visa scams.

Difference is that based on percentage of population, Indian scammers are not even 1/100 th in the scope and scale of Australian scammers.

 

[paritosh]

First of all I am not providing a "critique" of capitalism, I am just stating facts about capitalism. If you find that critical then there is a problem with your perspective.

"Scams are far more pervasive than corruption. They are one of the foundation organs of the modern economy. Only they go by different names like "Advertising", "Marketing" or just plain "Certifications""
How is the above statement factual?

You have just provided the legal argument for scams that if they can lift people out of poverty then its a good thing, especially if they increase income inequality. Now you know why scammers in that video did not have water front houses.

If one party is left with fewer resources than they started with because of misrepresentation of facts or deliberate concealment, then that's a crime and a scam. If you take risk willingly with full disclosure of facts, that's risk-reward dynamics at play.

Entire industry of Arbitrage is based on asymmetry exploitation. Be it labor, capital, commodity or time. And very many times this information is hard to come by and is concealed under confidential information or "sensitive data". That is how they restrict competition and keep the entry barriers high.

Arbitrages are auto-correcting (market takes care of that). Information asymmetry has a plethora of legal checks and anti-trust economics and associated laws take care of any 'damages' incurred by a buyer when information is withheld (e.g - audits misrepresenting books, damaged B2C products, etc.) or when a buyer gets an advantage through unfair means (insider trading laws).
Capital markets have a degree of correlation even if they don't have causality, and publicly traded stocks have stringent laws that protect investors from scams (because scams are criminalised).
Your argument is that if there is a risk of wrong-doing (which exists in all models involving human interactions), then the whole model is a scam.
You mention concealment of information under the guise of sensitive data...in the hierarchy of enforcing checks and balances, who conceals information from whom? A company withholding information when accused of a scam can be tried in a court of law. Give me an example of concealment leading to a scam which was not corrected.

About criminalizing scams, that is how they are "regulated" and controlled.

See this is why your arguments seem dishonest, isn't all crime regulated and controlled? preemptive arrests are unconstitutional hence you control crime after it occurs, hence their is no point attacking a corporate business model just because it may or can scam people as well. It most of the time works under the ambit of law like everything else.

I don't have to provide a workable definition of a scam since there are no scams. Unsophisticated business transactions are called scams by unsatisfied customers.

Oh my god, a grievance and a scam are separated by many degrees and are very distinguishable.
Please go through this, will save us both time --> https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fraud/

The valuation of "risk" itself is a scam and is not a science but an "estimate" based on guesstimate.

Oh damn...sir, do you know of a way of looking into the future and knowing what will happen?
Kya admi hai bhai...ek statement mein saari duniya ke risk models ko obsolete bana diya...
Bu your definition...
1) missiles are a scam (seeker/radar based guidance uses estimation models of predicting future value of a vector)
2) super computers are wasted investments (govt.s to run their scams, develop planning models with a large set of variables for planning using super computers)
3) business cases are a scam (RoI calculations require cashflow modelling which 'guesstimate' how a CEO can best scam his own company while making a future investment to get fired)

The objective being to make the insurance company maximize its profit by denying customers/victims as much money as possible.

If you file an invalid insurance claim (based on information that was provided to you when you sign up and explained to you as well, because if a company doesn't explain the risks, they will be fined, imprisoned) you will not get money. Scams can happen both ways, you have to prove the scam in a court of law, hope you don't think that the constitution and its upholders are not scammers themselves.

Statistical probabilities used to estimate risk is no different that using them to predict the future. Something Astrologers have done quite successfully for thousands of years.

Really? Statistical models are based on statistics, and hence are scientific. They don't predict the future, but provide odds of an event occurring based on historical data and trends and involve a myriad of variables.
They improve over a period of time, by learning from data and correcting their base conditions.
Statistical probabilities have given the world - AI, space exploration, successful businesses, effective planning
Name one thing that can be attributed to astrology...

Scams that are covered by Law and those that are outlawed due to lack of sophistication or due to lack of scale/size where there are not enough fingers in the pie. Make the pie large enough with enough fingers in that scam and they will make it legal.

Like Homeopathy or Psychiatry or Universities.

Please go through the link I have provided. You will understand what qualifies as a fraud/scam and what doesnt.
Do you mean the concept of Unis is flawed or that some Unis can fraud people?

Relevance is the lack of any serious repercussions to High profile scammers like Rahul Gandhi or Kapil Sibal who continues to be a Supreme court advocate.

Is a "scam" only when you are poor and unsophisticated. That was always the point.

IF you have a good lawyer, you will be able to present a stronger more effective case.
You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Poor people obviously have to struggle for resources more than rich people that is why no one wants to be poor, anywhere, ever.

It is for you to provide the hard statistics to prove there is a scientific basis for your hate. I am not required to prove a negative. Clearly logic is not your strong suite.

You claimed that I was biased, I responded by telling you that it's an inference drawn from empirical evidence.
Take potshots, couldn't care less.
https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/Previousproducts/3418.0Main Features52011-12?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3418.0&issue=2011-12&num=&view=

I have also heard of Australian university scams that offer the possibility of getting citizenship if Indians pay thousands of dollars to get worthless degrees from Australian universities.

I was hoping you'd bring this up,
Here is more information on this
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...from-students-but-never-taught-class/11662164
Guess who was the ring leader in this scam? First name - Bobby, last name - Singh

or Australian fake marriage scams, or Australian work visa scams.

Here is more...
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...eted-by-global-syndicate-20190729-p52bt0.html

Difference is that based on percentage of population, Indian scammers are not even 1/100 th in the scope and scale of Australian scammers.

After accusing me of not being logical in taking up the burden of backing up my claim, you should provide proof to this claim as well don't you think?

 

[Nityam]

"Scams are far more pervasive than corruption. They are one of the foundation organs of the modern economy. Only they go by different names like "Advertising", "Marketing" or just plain "Certifications""
How is the above statement factual?

How is it not factual ? Is Boost really the secret of Tendulkars energy ? is Lux soap the secret of kareen kapoors beauty ?

The truth is self evident and so is the "legal" scam.

Let us consider "ISO certificate". What does it really mean ? Does it guarantee quality ? NO. Is it based on empirical evidence ? NO. Its based on random audit in an controlled environment giving adequate scope to "manage" data.

What about "certifications" that need to be renewed every 1, 2, 3 or 5 years? Its not a scam ?

If one party is left with fewer resources than they started with because of misrepresentation of facts or deliberate concealment, then that's a crime and a scam. If you take risk willingly with full disclosure of facts, that's risk-reward dynamics at play.

LOL. How about the scam called the "housing bubble" ? or scam called "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" ? also known as "too big to fail" Scam. Where is the full disclosure of facts or crime and punishment ?

Arbitrages are auto-correcting (market takes care of that). Information asymmetry has a plethora of legal checks and anti-trust economics and associated laws take care of any 'damages' incurred by a buyer when information is withheld (e.g - audits misrepresenting books, damaged B2C products, etc.) or when a buyer gets an advantage through unfair means (insider trading laws).

A good part of wall street runs on insider trading and the "old boys network". Jonathan Belfort and Madoff are just the one's who were caught. Here is a 50 billion $ scam.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-dirty-dollar50-billion-scam-wall-street-is-getting-away-with

Capital markets have a degree of correlation even if they don't have causality, and publicly traded stocks have stringent laws that protect investors from scams (because scams are criminalised).
Your argument is that if there is a risk of wrong-doing (which exists in all models involving human interactions), then the whole model is a scam.
You mention concealment of information under the guise of sensitive data...in the hierarchy of enforcing checks and balances, who conceals information from whom? A company withholding information when accused of a scam can be tried in a court of law. Give me an example of concealment leading to a scam which was not corrected.

Not all scams are criminalized. Make the scam big enough and you get legal protection. Too big to fail scam.

India was full of Vijay Mallays and Nirav Modi before Narendra Modi came to power and pull the plugs on these scammers. They operated in a zero risk environment. Sams as Sonia and Rahul gandhi and Chidambaram.

I won't even bother to go into the size and scale of chinese govt. data scams and currency scams.

See this is why your arguments seem dishonest, isn't all crime regulated and controlled? preemptive arrests are unconstitutional hence you control crime after it occurs, hence their is no point attacking a corporate business model just because it may or can scam people as well. It most of the time works under the ambit of law like everything else.

Oh my god, a grievance and a scam are separated by many degrees and are very distinguishable.
Please go through this, will save us both time --> https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fraud/

I am not "attacking" corporate business, I am just recognizing it as a large successful and sophisticated scam.

Those sanctioned by the law.

Fraud as defined as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact is perfectly acceptable when it is done by Cricketers and movie stars doing Advertisement, Politician doing political rallies and statements, or Economist giving predictions. All "legal" and protected by the Law.

Oh damn...sir, do you know of a way of looking into the future and knowing what will happen?
Kya admi hai bhai...ek statement mein saari duniya ke risk models ko obsolete bana diya...
Bu your definition...
1) missiles are a scam (seeker/radar based guidance uses estimation models of predicting future value of a vector)
2) super computers are wasted investments (govt.s to run their scams, develop planning models with a large set of variables for planning using super computers)
3) business cases are a scam (RoI calculations require cashflow modelling which 'guesstimate' how a CEO can best scam his own company while making a future investment to get fired)

About Missiles being a scam: During the 1991 Gulf War Patriot missile had a record of intercepting about 50 percent. It noted "higher" confidence in only about 25 percent of the cases.

House Committee on Government Operations investigation said, not enough evidence was found to conclude that there had been any interceptions at all.

There is little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq during the Gulf War," the investigations concluded.

The report, which called for declassifying more information on the Patriot missile and an independent evaluation of the missile defence programme, was crushed under a lobbying campaign by the US army and Raytheon, leaving only a summary publically available.

That is what a "Legal Scam" looks like.

I fail to see how this corresponds to research into faster Supercomputer.

I think you mean a "Business Plan". Its just that. A PLAN. Not reality, but a mixture of hope, greed and aspiration underwritten by guarantee of effort with hopes of success.

Which is why there is "RISK Assessment" as part of this PLAN. The disclaimer that it IS about predicting the future.

If you file an invalid insurance claim (based on information that was provided to you when you sign up and explained to you as well, because if a company doesn't explain the risks, they will be fined, imprisoned) you will not get money. Scams can happen both ways, you have to prove the scam in a court of law, hope you don't think that the constitution and its upholders are not scammers themselves.

There are plenty of "legal loopholes" available for insurance companies to reject your claims. That is how this scam works. Its sanctioned by Law.

The Law inevitable always favors the rich and powerful so that is the scamming nexus. This is the universal truth. From US to India to china to Nigeria.

Really? Statistical models are based on statistics, and hence are scientific. They don't predict the future, but provide odds of an event occurring based on historical data and trends and involve a myriad of variables.
They improve over a period of time, by learning from data and correcting their base conditions.
Statistical probabilities have given the world - AI, space exploration, successful businesses, effective planning
Name one thing that can be attributed to astrology...

Astrologers have a 50% prediction rate.

Better than the strike rate of Patriot missile.

So which is a larger Scam ?

Please go through the link I have provided. You will understand what qualifies as a fraud/scam and what doesnt.
Do you mean the concept of Unis is flawed or that some Unis can fraud people?

Nope, the whole system of a group of people "Certifying" others after paying a certain "fees" in a university is the real scam.

What it really was / is membership to an Club that gives you first right to employment and admission into "old boys network" also known as "nepotism".

That is how the Oxfords and the Cambridge got away with issuing "Gentleman's degree" to the likes of Nehru and other elite idiots who could afford to pay them their "fee".

You can read about how Rockefeller outlawed medicine practice in the US except to those who were Certified by his Universities as "Doctors".

IF you have a good lawyer, you will be able to present a stronger more effective case.
You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Poor people obviously have to struggle for resources more than rich people that is why no one wants to be poor, anywhere, ever.

So its legal to scam one if one is unable to find a good lawyer.

That is the crux of your argument.

You claimed that I was biased, I responded by telling you that it's an inference drawn from empirical evidence.
Take potshots, couldn't care less.
https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/Previousproducts/3418.0Main Features52011-12?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3418.0&issue=2011-12&num=&view=

https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs...ummary&prodno=3418.0&issue=2011-12&num=&view=

What does this statistics prove ?

Are you justifying your hate based on someone's access to education ? LOL.

I was hoping you'd bring this up,
Here is more information on this
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...from-students-but-never-taught-class/11662164
Guess who was the ring leader in this scam? First name - Bobby, last name - Singh

Only Bobby Sigh was an AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN scamming INDIANS.

You just proved my point.

Here is more...
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...eted-by-global-syndicate-20190729-p52bt0.html

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...eted-by-global-syndicate-20190729-p52bt0.html

What does this prove ? That Australian women are scammers too ? or that being part of a global syndicate of scammers absolves Australia of any culpability ?

After accusing me of not being logical in taking up the burden of backing up my claim, you should provide proof to this claim as well don't you think?

Which claim ? You have already provided proof of my claim as well.

 

[paritosh]

How is it not factual ? Is Boost really the secret of Tendulkars energy ? is Lux soap the secret of kareen kapoors beauty ?

The truth is self evident and so is the "legal" scam.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...elebrities-for-endorsing-misleading-products/

Let us consider "ISO certificate". What does it really mean ? Does it guarantee quality ? NO. Is it based on empirical evidence ? NO. Its based on random audit in an controlled environment giving adequate scope to "manage" data.

Lol!
The next time you fall sick and go to a doctor, don't because differential analysis is a scam.
No doctor physically will calculate the red blood cells, or all the platelets in your body as they want to scam you by only checking a sample extracted from you to guess a root-cause.

What about "certifications" that need to be renewed every 1, 2, 3 or 5 years? Its not a scam ?

Going back to the doctor example, you are right, it is a scam. Doctors are ripped off when they try to learn about new research in prognosis through certifications to cover the resulting doubling of medical knowledge which happens every three months, no value in that. Scam.

LOL. How about the scam called the "housing bubble" ? or scam called "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" ? also known as "too big to fail" Scam. Where is the full disclosure of facts or crime and punishment ?

All the banks were buried (ongoing) lawsuits and fines.
https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/a-decade-on-crisis-era-litigation-still-bedevils-banks
https://www.paulweiss.com/practices...risis-10-years-later-lessons-learned?id=27324
Law took its course. Dodd-Frank was passed, you are insinuating that the crisis was brushed off which is far from the truth.

A good part of wall street runs on insider trading and the "old boys network". Jonathan Belfort and Madoff are just the one's who were caught. Here is a 50 billion $ scam.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-dirty-dollar50-billion-scam-wall-street-is-getting-away-with

Which is a scam and hence a crime. Like all forms of crime, some get caught, some don't.

Not all scams are criminalized. Make the scam big enough and you get legal protection. Too big to fail scam.

You need to establish that a wrong has been committed. Astrologers are not behind bars as well, but the call centres in Pune from where the IT tech support scam was being run was raided some time back by the police.
Too big to fail resulted in punitive action in the form of lawsuits and fines.

I am not "attacking" corporate business, I am just recognizing it as a large successful and sophisticated scam.

Which is the attack. You are calling the business model fraudulent, I don't know where to even begin refuting that.

Fraud as defined as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact is perfectly acceptable when it is done by Cricketers and movie stars doing Advertisement, Politician doing political rallies and statements, or Economist giving predictions. All "legal" and protected by the Law.

Haven't people been prosecuted/jailed?
How is the Economist giving predictions a crime? For a scam the intent has to be proven. You are again confusing corruption with scams. Scam is systemic, corruption is behavioural, unless the business model is fraudulent (pyramid schemes)

About Missiles being a scam: During the 1991 Gulf War Patriot missile had a record of intercepting about 50 percent. It noted "higher" confidence in only about 25 percent of the cases.

House Committee on Government Operations investigation said, not enough evidence was found to conclude that there had been any interceptions at all.

There is little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq during the Gulf War," the investigations concluded.

The report, which called for declassifying more information on the Patriot missile and an independent evaluation of the missile defence programme, was crushed under a lobbying campaign by the US army and Raytheon, leaving only a summary publically available.

That is what a "Legal Scam" looks like.

You missed the point completely. Prediction engines are central to self-correcting ballistics, which work on statistical modelling.

I fail to see how this corresponds to research into faster Supercomputer.

Again, your point on equating statistical models to palmistry/astrology is nonsensical. Supercomputers are an example of how govt.s invest billions in building machines that can run complex statistical models for planning.

I think you mean a "Business Plan". Its just that. A PLAN. Not reality, but a mixture of hope, greed and aspiration underwritten by guarantee of effort with hopes of success.

I assumed that you'd understand what a business case is. It is specific to establishing the rationale for a business investment. Are you suggesting that business plans/case are scams?
Have you ever done revenue/cashflow modelling? What do you use if you deem business plans as corrupt of dysfunctional?

There are plenty of "legal loopholes" available for insurance companies to reject your claims. That is how this scam works. Its sanctioned by Law.

So no one gets their insurance claim then?

Astrologers have a 50% prediction rate.

There is a 50% probability that you'd die tomorrow. Is that useful information?
You don't understand how probability works. A negative binomial distribution or a Poisson distribution require a statistically significant sample to generate results with a certain confidence level.
The resulting inferences help guide satellites into their correct orbits, help retailers plan inventory management, etc.

Better than the strike rate of Patriot missile.
So which is a larger Scam ?

Aim 120 D fired by a Pakistani F16 brought down an IAF mig 21 using statistical estimation engines. Don't think there is any scam there.

Nope, the whole system of a group of people "Certifying" others after paying a certain "fees" in a university is the real scam.

My uni has given me tangible skills for peanuts that I paid in fees. Skills that have enabled me plan, prune, propel my career better than those who went to inferior unis or chose to sit out of going to one at my workplace.
There is a tangible benefit if you make an informed decision about consuming the right uni's services, like much else.

What it really was / is membership to an Club that gives you first right to employment and admission into "old boys network" also known as "nepotism".

The benefits are fundamental, even in the same firm the differences start showing up very soon.

That is how the Oxfords and the Cambridge got away with issuing "Gentleman's degree" to the likes of Nehru and other elite idiots who could afford to pay them their "fee".

Scams have been unearthed and reported, lawsuits going on. You have the same opinion of IITs?

So its legal to scam one if one is unable to find a good lawyer.

Pay for the services you consume, demand-supply take care of pricing. If I am a good lawyer, doesn't mean that I will start having 27 hours in my day to meet the increased demand.

Are you justifying your hate based on someone's access to education ? LOL.

I am trying to call a spade a spade.
Example -
Fact -people in the west are better educated on average than people in India. Now you can contest this with a conflicting factual statement or throw around opinions. Using words like "hate" is deflection.
https://www.devex.com/news/india-s-re-entry-to-pisa-triggers-mixed-response-94286

Only Bobby Sigh was an AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN scamming INDIANS.

You just proved my point.


What does this prove ? That Australian women are scammers too ? or that being part of a global syndicate of scammers absolves Australia of any culpability ?




Which claim ? You have already provided proof of my claim as well.

Can't help you if you want to cherry pick. I have given evidence of what I am saying.

 

[Hindustani78]

No I have better things to do then lying to people and pretending to solve their problems. However, I do believe in the unseen. Any science that is not understood by man is known as magic.

No, You doesnt have Imaan ul Ghayab. Science starts from Deen and Ends on Deen.

Not all. There are good Jinn and bad Jinn. Just like man. There are Muslim jinn and others too. They are not made up of the same type of matter that we are.

Jinns are Shaytan. There are born to kill Humans. Shaytan is always wrong, so dont talk about this Good or Bad Here. Forces of Good are always Victories against the Evil Ones.

 

[Nityam]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...elebrities-for-endorsing-misleading-products/

Another scam, Can you list out how many celebrities have been fined and if it has put an end to misleading advertisement ?

Lol!
The next time you fall sick and go to a doctor, don't because differential analysis is a scam.
No doctor physically will calculate the red blood cells, or all the platelets in your body as they want to scam you by only checking a sample extracted from you to guess a root-cause.

Differential analysis is not the same as an ISO audit. A blood report is not the same as process audit. One measures hard data, other only checks micro sample for proof of adherence and give time to manufacture proof of adherence if found deficit.

A medical report is not a "Certificate" of compliance or "stamp of approval". This deliberate attempt at strawman only shows your weak defense.

Going back to the doctor example, you are right, it is a scam. Doctors are ripped off when they try to learn about new research in prognosis through certifications to cover the resulting doubling of medical knowledge which happens every three months, no value in that. Scam.

There is no certification that cover doubling of medical knowledge

There is no certificate that is an substitute for experience or practice. So if one is issued that certificate, you can bet its a scam.

All the banks were buried (ongoing) lawsuits and fines.
https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/a-decade-on-crisis-era-litigation-still-bedevils-banks
https://www.paulweiss.com/practices...risis-10-years-later-lessons-learned?id=27324
Law took its course. Dodd-Frank was passed, you are insinuating that the crisis was brushed off which is far from the truth.

That is just corrective action after the scam has successfully run its course. The Law was modified to prevent any future scam of similar nature, after bailing out the banks with public money. With the money of all those who had scammed in the first place.

Which is a scam and hence a crime. Like all forms of crime, some get caught, some don't.

Nope, Nobody talks about it so its not a scam. Its just business as usual.

You need to establish that a wrong has been committed. Astrologers are not behind bars as well, but the call centres in Pune from where the IT tech support scam was being run was raided some time back by the police.
Too big to fail resulted in punitive action in the form of lawsuits and fines.

Well if Astrologers are scammers they should be behind bars , right ? That was you point.

Tood big to fail got Bail outs and got their status restored and the slap on the wrist punitive action was the final proof of how successful scams work.

Which is the attack. You are calling the business model fraudulent, I don't know where to even begin refuting that.

Nope, you are the one calling them fraudulent. I am the one calling them sophisticated scams.

Haven't people been prosecuted/jailed?
How is the Economist giving predictions a crime? For a scam the intent has to be proven. You are again confusing corruption with scams. Scam is systemic, corruption is behavioural, unless the business model is fraudulent (pyramid schemes)

Not its not a crime, its just a scam.

You can never prove intent. How can you prove that the scammer in the video posted has bad intent ? Maybe he was just trying to help that guy and charge him for it. Then why are you calling him a scammer ? Hypocrisy much ?

Corruption is systemic too. Conflicting interests, discretionary powers, monopolistic powers are all examples of systemic corruption. Can you show one Nation or government that does not use all of that ?

Google has conflicting interests when selling users personal data to marketing companies. Twitter has discretionary power to suspend accounts. US has monopolistic power to print USD and force others to buy oil in that currency. Is all of this "corruption" or "Scams" by your own definition ?

You missed the point completely. Prediction engines are central to self-correcting ballistics, which work on statistical modelling.

AI or predictive engines or statistical modelling or data correlation analysis are all scientific and not artistic. They do not predict, only provide more statistical data and probability distribution.

Using that to "Predict" the future is the scam.

Again, your point on equating statistical models to palmistry/astrology is nonsensical. Supercomputers are an example of how govt.s invest billions in building machines that can run complex statistical models for planning.

I said Astrology , not palmistry. Your attempt at deliberate lying is noted.

Even in Palmistry, the readings are based on empirical data though not necessarily on verifiable statistical data.

Statistical modelling is not artistry. Its scientific because it gives you data within a narrow parameter. But when uses that data to predict a larger picture with uncontrollable and conflicting parameters, then its a scam.

I assumed that you'd understand what a business case is. It is specific to establishing the rationale for a business investment. Are you suggesting that business plans/case are scams?
Have you ever done revenue/cashflow modelling? What do you use if you deem business plans as corrupt of dysfunctional?

Of course they are scams, which is why "Presentation" and "communication" is so important and necessary. How many walk into a review without dressing for that "part" or practicing that speech ?

One has to be naive to think that such things are based on actual data and not on relationship and personalities. lol.

So no one gets their insurance claim then?

You yourself correctly suggested that only those with Higher IQ and smarter Lawyers get the claims.

There is a 50% probability that you'd die tomorrow. Is that useful information?

Very much so. It helps me plan for tomorrow.

You don't understand how probability works. A negative binomial distribution or a Poisson distribution require a statistically significant sample to generate results with a certain confidence level.
The resulting inferences help guide satellites into their correct orbits, help retailers plan inventory management, etc.

LOL. I understand probability and statistics. But they are collected in controlled observable environment with predefined and set parameters.

Which is why their real life application is subject to wide variations and deviance covered under "Risk".

Satellite guidance is done under controlled environment. Predicting the economic future or future of your relationship or state of mind is not.

Inventory management is based on projection and not prediction.

Aim 120 D fired by a Pakistani F16 brought down an IAF mig 21 using statistical estimation engines. Don't think there is any scam there.

AIM 120 D fired at Su30 MKI did not bring anything down though the PAF though it would. That was the scam.

My uni has given me tangible skills for peanuts that I paid in fees. Skills that have enabled me plan, prune, propel my career better than those who went to inferior unis or chose to sit out of going to one at my workplace.
There is a tangible benefit if you make an informed decision about consuming the right uni's services, like much else.

The benefits are fundamental, even in the same firm the differences start showing up very soon.

Scams have been unearthed and reported, lawsuits going on. You have the same opinion of IITs?

I can't comment on individual claims. But success at workplace has VERY LITTLE to do with your college background unless you need to use the "old boys network". It has everything to do with your application, dedication and effort.

What is the global raking of IIT based on published research ? That will tell you what I think.

Pay for the services you consume, demand-supply take care of pricing. If I am a good lawyer, doesn't mean that I will start having 27 hours in my day to meet the increased demand.

Sure, Only the system that created this demand for "Lawyers" is the scam. One that keeps the economy rolling.

I am trying to call a spade a spade.
Example -
Fact -people in the west are better educated on average than people in India. Now you can contest this with a conflicting factual statement or throw around opinions. Using words like "hate" is deflection.
https://www.devex.com/news/india-s-re-entry-to-pisa-triggers-mixed-response-94286

Fact is also that Indians face discrimination during work selection and during evaluation.

People in the west are also better dress and eat better on average than people in India. If you want to use that to hate Indians then its your problem, not mine. To consider unequal playing field fair is the very root of discrimination.

Can't help you if you want to cherry pick. I have given evidence of what I am saying.

Maybe its you who chose to cherry pick. Every think of that ?

 

[paritosh]

Another scam, Can you list out how many celebrities have been fined and if it has put an end to misleading advertisement ?



Differential analysis is not the same as an ISO audit. A blood report is not the same as process audit. One measures hard data, other only checks micro sample for proof of adherence and give time to manufacture proof of adherence if found deficit.

A medical report is not a "Certificate" of compliance or "stamp of approval". This deliberate attempt at strawman only shows your weak defense.



There is no certification that cover doubling of medical knowledge

There is no certificate that is an substitute for experience or practice. So if one is issued that certificate, you can bet its a scam.



That is just corrective action after the scam has successfully run its course. The Law was modified to prevent any future scam of similar nature, after bailing out the banks with public money. With the money of all those who had scammed in the first place.




Nope, Nobody talks about it so its not a scam. Its just business as usual.




Well if Astrologers are scammers they should be behind bars , right ? That was you point.

Tood big to fail got Bail outs and got their status restored and the slap on the wrist punitive action was the final proof of how successful scams work.




Nope, you are the one calling them fraudulent. I am the one calling them sophisticated scams.



Not its not a crime, its just a scam.

You can never prove intent. How can you prove that the scammer in the video posted has bad intent ? Maybe he was just trying to help that guy and charge him for it. Then why are you calling him a scammer ? Hypocrisy much ?

Corruption is systemic too. Conflicting interests, discretionary powers, monopolistic powers are all examples of systemic corruption. Can you show one Nation or government that does not use all of that ?

Google has conflicting interests when selling user personal data to marketing companies. Twitter has discretionary power to suspend accounts. US has monopolistic power to print USD and force others to buy oil in that currency. Is all of this "corruption" or "Scams" by your own definition ?



AI or predictive engines or statistical modelling or data correlation analysis are all scientific and not artistic. They do not predict, only provide more statistical data and probability distribution.

Using that to "Predict" the future is the scam.




I said Astrology , not palmistry. Your attempt at deliberate lying is noted.

Even in Palmistry, the readings are based on empirical data though not necessarily on verifiable statistical data.

Statistical modelling is not artistry. Its scientific because it gives you data within a narrow parameter. But when uses that data to predict a larger picture with uncontrollable and conflicting parameters, then its a scam.




Of course they are scams, which is why "Presentation" and "communication" is so important and necessary. How many walk into a review without dressing for that "part" or practicing that speech ?

One has to be naive to think that such things are based on actual data and not on relationship and personalities. lol.

So no one gets their insurance claim then?




There is a 50% probability that you'd die tomorrow. Is that useful information?

Very much so. It helps me plan for tomorrow.



LOL. I understand probability and statistics. But they are collected in controlled observable environment with predefined and set parameters.

Which is why their real life application is subject to wide variations and deviance covered under "Risk".

Satellite guidance is done under controlled environment. Predicting the economic future or future of your relationship or state of mind is not.

Inventory management is based on projection and not prediction.

Aim 120 D fired by a Pakistani F16 brought down an IAF mig 21 using statistical estimation engines. Don't think there is any scam there.

AIM 120 D fired at Su30 MKI did not bring anything down though the PAF though it would. That was the scam.



I can't comment on individual claims. But success at workplace has VERY LITTLE to do with your college background unless you need to use the "old boys network". It has everything to do with your application, dedication and effort.

What is the global raking of IIT based on published research ? That will tell you what I think.



Sure, Only the system that created this demand for "Lawyers" is the scam. One that keeps the economy rolling.



Fact is also that Indians face discrimination during work selection and during evaluation.

People in the west are also better dress and eat better on average than people in India. If you want to use that to hate Indians then its your problem, not mine. To consider unequal playing field fair is the very root of discrimination.




Maybe its you who chose to cherry pick. Every think of that ?

Just a quick question here champ, can you pick the concepts you believe in from list below?
1. Ancient aliens
2. Ancient Vedic vimanas
3. Palmistry
4. Astrology
5. Numerology