Indian Sikh company surrendering to Lone Pilot Lt.Col Naseerullah Babar

[BL33D]

wow I really got under your skin didn't I lolololol
come on, count to 10 and take a deep breath before you have a heart attack.

I am not concerned with what my countrymen say or do not say, I can only present my arguments. And for the record most of my friends are Indian and almost all of the writings I've across online or otherwise by Indians, fall into exactly the same category as the label you love putting on Pakistanis.

Indians are the most insanely blind group I've known in my life. Lovely people with intelligence and I actually love them to bits, but it does not mean I am required to keep quiet when I hear stupidity in action. You mention the word Pakistan, in some cases Islam, and you can see logic and reason departing from their body. Perfectly normal people enter a fantasy land.

You are free to say what you want, as am I, but, once you reply by quoting a previous message then you are honour bound to keep your accusations and claims to what that person says or has said. Not refer to Tom, Dick or Harry as that person is not responsible for what someone else says.

It is basic common sense, once you enter in communication with someone then it is only you and him/her, you cannot ask that person to defend what someone else has said, or put someones else's statement on that persons head and ask them to answer it, it is not their statement.

Come on please, little common sense goes a long way.

At least have some shred of dignity and counter @Joe Shearer points instead of showing your inferiority complex. He took his time to educate you about our common history. At least show some courtesy by responding with facts.

 

[peagle]

At least have some shred of dignity and counter @Joe Shearer points instead of showing your inferiority complex. He took his time to educate you about our common history. At least show some courtesy by responding with facts.

Did you read my posts, I gave nothing but facts. he gave nothing but excuses. And said he was not interested in a detailed discussion. Are we playing team India, or are we here to have honest discussions. Please read through the full line of discussion before commenting, its basic courtesy, otherwise better not to get involved.

 

[xyxmt]

This is the best you could do, a semi-lunatic and a class 6 illiterate who has made a career of raising the security bogey to win votes? I feel sorry for you.

Its ok, your kids will remember how India kicked Pak a$$ on Feb 27th

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

I always hope and expect from Pakistan Arny to win like 1965 and we are happy to loose.

Hint:- fight was started to get Kashmir but not saving the Lahore.

I always get confused for pak claim. Was they actually thought that finally we will save Lahore and it will be victory for them. Or, thought we will beat Indian army and will get Kashmir? If it was 1st motive then it is always welcome.... And best of luck

 

[Jackdaws]

Your statement is a hotchpotch of different thoughts that have little bearing to what I said, but I will try to answer the best I can, hopefully, so we can move towards a conclusion. I do like your inquisitive approach rather than empty answers, so thank you for that.

Means to an end? Everything you do in life is a means to an end, you drink water and eat food so have enough nutrients to function and stay alive, and you breathe air so that your body gets oxygen to be able to operate. Means to an end means nothing.

All wars are measured by a large number of perimeters and not all perimeters apply to every single scenario. But I am willing to answer your questions provided mine are included and accepted in the discussion. Surely the world does not operate by your benchmarks alone.

I recognize your acknowledgement of Pakistan army Jawans as Bravehearts, and heartily accept the same goes for Indian Army Jawans, both our Jawans love their countries so they deserve our respect and fair analysis of the past, only then we can move towards a peaceful future.

Your last paragraph is seriously lacking in commonsense, I think it would be wise to at least make an effort to understand what the other person has said before attempting a reply. I never claimed we won the wars, when did I make that claim? I clearly said India was not able to defeat Pakistan in any of the wars.

Before I give a detailed reply to your questions, whilst adding a more realistic analysis of relevant facts, I would like you to declare what is your claim? Because you have not made a claim, but I infer from your statements that you think you won all of the wars. I find that extremely hilarious.




Pravin Sawhney is an ex-Indian Army officer and was a correspondence for Jane’s international defense review for 6 years. He has no soft spot for Pakistan especially its Army. Like all Indians, he is also negatively obsessed with the Pakistan army, with some of his claims regarding the Pakistan army being of suspect nature.

What we are concerned with here is his analysis of Indian armed forces, I have yet to meet an Indian who does not blow trumpets regarding their armed forces and he is also one of them in his other writings, but I have to respect him for being truthful here, his motive being so that his army and his people can learn from reality rather than keep ignoring the facts.

At 14:40 he clearly states with heavy emphasis that in all the years since 1947 Pakistan has never lost a war with India in the western sector, and makes a joke of Indian claims to have repeatedly beaten them.

Don't be silly. That was a farrago of nonsense, but as a patriotic Indian, I also do not wish to say what I would like to say about that ridiculous episode. We do, among ourselves, in trusted conversations, have a somewhat different view of things, but in today's climate of hate, saying anything opposed to the hype going around will get me invited to Pakistan by some Indians.








I am reacting only to your comments on Pravin Sawhney. It is quite correct to say that he is one of the honest and truthful commentators on Indo-Pakistani conflicts, and it is quite correct to say what he does, and what Major Amin also says, about the truth behind reports of India-Pakistan battles. He is a breath of fresh air.

I do think that his assessment is always very conservative, and he loses the wood for the trees. Having said that, I also have to admit that I am his avid fan.



This is the best you could do, a semi-lunatic and a class 6 illiterate who has made a career of raising the security bogey to win votes? I feel sorry for you.

Sawhney in his videos said India had not captured any territory in West Pakistan. This is simply not true. Turtuk and some Balti towns around were captured by India and to date remain part of India. Chachro in Sindh was captured and only returned after a year or so. Is my information inaccurate or is Sawhney lying?

 

[peagle]

Sawhney in his videos said India had not captured any territory in West Pakistan. This is simply not true. Turtuk and some Balti towns around were captured by India and to date remain part of India. Chachro in Sindh was captured and only returned after a year or so. Is my information inaccurate or is Sawhney lying?

Territories were captured by both sides and returned by both sides, that is what he said, please quote correctly. No territory as kept by either side along the international border. The rules along the Kashmir region are different. No towns were captured but peaks have been captured by each other and kept because the Kashmir region operates by different rules.

 

[Jackdaws]

Territories were captured by both sides and returned by both sides, that is what he said, please quote correctly. No territory as kept by either side along the international border. The rules along the Kashmir region are different. No towns were captured but peaks have been captured by each other and kept because the Kashmir region operates by different rules.

Turtuk is a town. Captured in 71. Still with India.

 

[peagle]

Turtuk is a town. Captured in 71. Still with India.

It is good to know, I will take your word for it. But, the point still stands that on the international border and on Kashmir border, different rules apply, in Kashmir both sides do one-upmanship from time to time.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sikhs are over rated. At the end of the day Sikhs are kuffars and they have the same weak DNA as their kuffar Hindu cousins.



Sorry! you kuffars are not welcome here.

We do not give two hoots about your aman ki tamasha

Weak DNA, lmao.

 

[SIPRA]

Turtuk is a town. Captured in 71. Still with India.

It is a village, and not town.

 

[Xestan]

General Naseerullah Babar — a legend of a man

He was Bob to close friends; Haji Sahib to the tribesmen; Governor Sahib to most; and plain Naseerullah to his relatives. He was also a terror to his adversaries.

Major General Naseerullah Babar, Sitara-i-Jurat (Bar), first achieved national acclaim during the war with India in September, 1965. On an operational mission in Kashmir, he landed his helicopter in a fortified position, which turned out to be an Indian camp 70 soldiers strong. Rather than being intimidated, his steel nerves turned the tables on the adversary. Told that they were surrounded, the contingent meekly raised their arms, handed over their weapons and surrendered. He won his second Sitara-i-Jurat during the 1971 war, again for courage bordering on the suicidal. It was in the Tribal Areas that General Babar was most in his elements. Appointed inspector-general, Frontier Corps, he, along with Mr Nasruminallah, the NWFP chief secretary, shaped the then-new ‘forward policy’ — Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was the prime minister at that time — to open and develop Fata which saw the construction of roads, schools, hospitals, small dams and industries.

Nasruminallah provided the intellectual underpinning for the forward thrust while Naseerullah was responsible for its implementation. Both men understood the tribesmen and had affection for them, unlike most others who followed them. Mohmand and Bajaur got their attention early. The road from Yusafkhel was extended to the Safi Plains and beyond to Nawaghai and Khar in Bajaur. Side valleys such as Chamarkund, Mamund and Salarzai were opened. In Orakzai Agency, the area upto Daburi was linked by roads, while in Kurram the Frontier Regions of Mussazai and Ali Sherzai saw major development. In Waziristan, Razmak was reactivated and a cadet college was established there. General Babar was always on the move and it was usual for him to visit one tribal agency or the other, two or three times a week. As the political agent of Mohmand once learnt to his amazement, General Babar, then NWFP governor, arrived alone with a driver at the agency headquarters in Ghallanai unannounced, unheralded and unescorted. On being requested not to visit the Tribal Areas without escort, he pointed to the assembled tribesmen and said they were his escort. There are few people in life — one in a million may be — who do not have the gene that causes fear. And General Babar was one of them. Told one day that a large gas tank in a factory in Nowshera was about to explode, he hurried to the location of the plant. Nonchalantly, and much to the horror of onlookers, he ascended the steps, fidgeted with the gauge and got it back to normal. He then berated the plant’s engineer for needlessly harassing the people since the only thing that had happened was that the gauge had malfunctioned!

Nothing depicts the honour and character of General Babar more than his decision to join the PPP a day after martial law was imposed in 1977. He said then that this was the only way he could express his solidarity with Mr Bhutto who had forever shown him kindness.

A week before his death, someone complimented him for his courage and boldness; the old general, robust of mind in a weakened body, replied that he was rash rather than bold. To achieve the objective, you need “nobility of purpose, coupled with rashness in execution”, he said.

There was a softer side to him as well. In the last three decades of his life, when, except for a brief stint, he remained a private citizen, his home would swarm with people, mostly tribesmen, asking for his intercession. He was also an avid reader and had perhaps the finest Gandhara collection in private hands, some of which he had willed to the state. He was a keen golfer and was given handicap strokes by his flight. Once, when the opponents contested his demand for strokes, he matter-of-factly told them that to be evenly placed on the course he would have to shoot the opponents three times each in the shoulder because that was the number of bullets he was carrying from the wars.

May the Almighty bless his soul.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 16th, 2011.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

RIP.

He is the real father of the Afghan Taliban, used to call them his children. His impact on geopolitics is all for see.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sawhney in his videos said India had not captured any territory in West Pakistan. This is simply not true. Turtuk and some Balti towns around were captured by India and to date remain part of India. Chachro in Sindh was captured and only returned after a year or so. Is my information inaccurate or is Sawhney lying?

He was exaggerating for effect. You are right.

Its ok, your kids will remember how India kicked Pak a$$ on Feb 27th

My kid - she doesn't live here - has an equal number of Pakistani and Indian friends, and none of them care about this fanboy crap. They are far more sensible than we give them credit for.

 

[Falcon26]

....and this is why, children, we won a famous victory.

same way Abhi shot down the f-16...in Indian fantasies

 

[Joe Shearer]

same way Abhi shot down the f-16...in Indian fantasies

Yes, indeed, Indian fantasy rules the world. Even you cannot do without it, whether it comes from Bollywood, or it comes from bhakts on PDF.

Those jaded with it and immune from it, such as the unfortunate writing these lines, can only watch the bewitched and laugh.