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[Star Wars]

Only if it is a procedural irregularity. Which it won't be if it is a wrong decision. Will be challenged. The courts will rule if that is the basis of the challenge.

In any case, there can be no changes of the constitution by this method. Period. There is a set method for those changes to be made & since this issues concerns the states, even they have to be on board.

How is it a wrong decision if the constitution itself allows the speaker to have a final say in the matter ?

 

[Bang Galore]

Congress shall continue to hamper the progress of country untill it is marginalized. We have to pay the prise of Congressee terror untill it is it becomes non significant force in RS.

Congress can only do this by way of blocking parliament. People have tired of it. The next time they do it, they should be kicked out in both the houses. Don't think they will get much support.

How is it a wrong decision if the constitution itself allows the speaker to have a final say in the matter ?

Again, I repeat, the immunity is only for procedural irregularities. If something is patently wrong, it will be challenged & won't have immunity.

In any case, this cannot apply to an amendment to the constitution. Therefore, not to the GST.

 

[Star Wars]

Congress can only do this by way of blocking parliament. People have tired of it. The next time they do it, they should be kicked out in both the houses. Don't think they will get much support.

Not gonna happen RS that asshole Kurian adjourned the house 3 minutes after GST was announced the first day and 8 minutes in the second day

Again, I repeat, the immunity is only for procedural irregularities. If something is patently wrong, it will be challenged & won't have immunity.
.

Again, i repeat the speaker has the final say, its right there in the constitution. The Black money bill was passed the same way even though it wasn't a money bill because speaker had the final say.

 

[Bang Galore]

Not gonna happen RS that asshole Kurian adjourned the house 3 minutes after GST was announced the first day and 8 minutes in the second day

There are ways to get past that. The congress is in a minority in the RS too even on matters of the constitutional amendment. The numbers are with the government on the GST, Congress is using brute power. That carries with it the law of diminishing returns. The government moves the chairman to get tough or move all bills (after a 6 month wait) to a joint sitting effectively cutting off the Rajya Sabha. Not many constitutional amendments, so the government should be able to do that.

Again, i repeat the speaker has the final say, its right there in the constitution. The Black money bill was passed the same way even though it wasn't a money bill because speaker had the final say.

The Black money bill was a borderline case, it also had no constitutional implications. I'm talking about a clear misuse which will be flagged. The GST simply cannot be passed in the same manner because the constitution has to be changed & there are clear rules on how that can be done. The same route does not exist.

 

[Star Wars]

There are ways to get past that. The congress is in a minority in the RS too even on matters of the constitutional amendment. The numbers are with the government on the GST, Congress is using brute power. That carries with it the law of diminishing returns. The government moves the chairman to get tough or move all bills (after a 6 month wait) to a joint sitting effectively cutting off the Rajya Sabha. Not many constitutional amendments, so the government should be able to do that.

Lets hope so, Govt. does aggressively claim it has other routes available...

The Black money bill was a borderline case, it also had no constitutional implications. I'm talking about a clear misuse which will be flagged. The GST simply cannot be passed in the same manner because the constitution has to be changed & there are clear rules on how that can be done. the same route does not exist.

How is it Misuse or illigal ? I quoted you the rules where it said it was final. IF the speaker does decide its over. Even UPA had thought of such a move. Why would Finance Ministry of all places think of this route if it was illigal ?

 

[Bang Galore]

How is it Misuse or illigal ? I quoted you the rules where it said it was final. IF the speaker does decide its over. Even UPA had thought of such a move. Why would Finance Ministry of all places think of this route if it was illigal ?

If a bill is labelled money bill when it is clearly not so, it does not fall under procedural irregularities & therefore no immunity will exist. Can be challenged. The finance ministry is using it in borderline cases where there can be arguments both ways.

Cannot be used for the GST because there is a change in the constitution required. No money bill can alter the constitution as a regular bill, has to be passed as a constitutional amendment. Otherwise will be deemed to be void. There is no indication whatsoever that the Finance ministry has seriously suggested this route for the GST. It may be considered for other bills. No one will mess around with the constitution. You do understand that even constitutional amendments, passed with 2/3rds of both houses can still be challenged in the Supreme Court, right? Do you seriously think that a bill passed by a single house with a simple majority will be given a pass?

 

[Star Wars]

If a bill is labelled money bill when it is clearly not so, it does not fall under procedural irregularities & therefore no immunity will exist. Can be challenged. The finance ministry is using it in borderline cases where there can be arguments both ways.

Cannot be used for the GST because there is a change in the constitution required. No money bill can alter the constitution as a regular bill, has to be passed as a constitutional amendment. Otherwise will be deemed to be void. There is no indication whatsoever that the Finance ministry has seriously suggested this route for the GST. It may be considered for other bills. No one will mess around with the constitution.

There are countless links out there which suggest both UPA and NDA seriously thought about Money bill route.
What exactly is a money bill or not falls on the LS speaker in finality ,constitution gives such a freedom as i quoted..

 

[Bang Galore]

There are countless links out there which suggest both UPA and NDA seriously thought about Money bill route.
What exactly is a money bill or not falls on the LS speaker in finality ,constitution gives such a freedom as i quoted..

Post a link, I'm unaware of such an argument..

There is no unlimited latitude, as I said

Article 122 provides immunity against challenges to the proceedings only on the grounds of procedural irregularities.

A patently wrong decision can be challenged.

 

[Star Wars]

Post a link, I'm unaware of such an argument..
There is no unlimited latitude, as I said
Article 122 provides immunity against challenges to the proceedings only on the grounds of procedural irregularities.
A patently wrong decision can be challenged.

Article 100(3) If any question arises whether a Bill is a Money Bill or not, the decision of the Speaker of the House of the People thereon shall be final

LS speaker has the final say, which means the final say isn't illegal or cannot be challenged in any court of law.

 

[Bang Galore]

Article 100(3) If any question arises whether a Bill is a Money Bill or not, the decision of the Speaker of the House of the People thereon shall be final

LS speaker has the final say, which means the final say isn't illegal or cannot be challenged in any court of law.

I have already made the point if how that is interpreted under Article 122. Won't labour this further.

The government in any case seems to have the numbers even in the Rajya Sabha. Absolutely no point in doing something silly. What is needed is for the government to deal with Congress's intransigence.

 

[tuo padre]

Stop it people. I got headache from the debate over money bill or constitutional amendment.

 

[Star Wars]

I have already made the point if how that is interpreted under Article 122. Won't labour this further.

i also made my point, chalo..ill go make some tea...

https://twitter.com/x/status/631749787079938049

Should have done this a lot earlier, but yeah go for the heads

 

[kurup]

Stop it people. I got headache from the debate over money bill or constitutional amendment.

same here ... ..... Last few posts can be summarised as ,

Money bill ..... Constitutional amendement ...... NO ,Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement

And readers are like .......

 

[Star Wars]

same here ... ..... Last few posts can be summarised as ,

Money bill ..... Constitutional amendement ...... NO ,Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement ...... NO , Money bill ..... NO , Constitutional amendement

And readers are like .......

 

[Echo_419]

i also made my point, chalo..ill go make some tea...

https://twitter.com/x/status/631749787079938049

Should have done this a lot earlier, but yeah go for the heads

Totally agree they should have done this before