Indian opinion on CPEC

[niaz]

We are helping Chinese so why should we even pay them a dime? Given the size of our population we could've eventually become a major economy in the next 3-4 decades.
This thread is dedicated to Indian concerns over CPEC, their strategy in countering it ,Their opinions whether or not legitimate or illegitimate.
PS:Keep the debate as constructive as possible no sniffing backsides and senseless talk.

My Assessment

• We have already seen the trade deficit becoming a serious problem for Pakistan and various economist on TV worrying about next bailout pointing towards International banks (WB IMF,ASDB etc), Now Pakistan has to pay Chinese banks as well ,We also have witnessed a slight but clear increase in Debt after CPEC / Right after CPEC began port operations and Initial trade started flowing in.
  
• CPEC is militarily unacceptable to India hence the economic project has potential to escalate military conflict in the region involving foreign players like the United states who already sided the Indian camp ,India also intensifying efforts to derail CPEC by using alternate trade stations like Ports in chabahar and diversifying economic relations with Iran and Afghanistan,This leaves little room for future reconciliation over key-issues like Kashmir and South asian economic integration which can be more beneficial to common folk and help balance current and future trade crisis ,The recent Indo-china standoff in Doklam plateau at the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction is another serious concern for Pakistan ,It risks Pakistan's Interests over Kashmir and geopolitical goals.
• To counter Afghanistan's official stance over CPEC and potential partner ,India has invested in a trade corridor connecting Chabahar India-Afghanistan Iran to (Africa and Middle east plus rest of the world). A planned road connecting the port to Afghanistan is being constructed, This can liberalize Afghan demand and provide an alternate over current trade with Afghanistan which is our 3rd biggest export partner ,currently Pakistan's services sector (Agriculture food processing etc) reap benefits over this trade with afghanistan.

The Indian Opinion

Indian assessment on CPEC revolves around the fact that "China" needs "Pakistan" therefore why should Pakistan pay China at all?

@Signalian @Joe Shearer @niaz @Mentee

Undoubtedly when CPEC is operation, it would be very difficult for IAF to bomb Gwadar and the import routes to China. But should we really care what India or any other country thinks about CPEC?

In my view CPEC is primarily a bilateral matter between Pakistan & China. Since it is not a military pact against India, our discussions should focus on its pro & cons vis-à-vis Pakistan economy only. For example:

“Exports to China shrank to $1.62 billion in 2016-17 from $2.69bn in 2013-14. Imports from China, in contrast, grew to $10.53bn in 2016-17 from $4.73bn in 2012-13, an increase of 123pc.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1349800


Let us be clear most of the Chinese investment in Pakistan related to CPEC is not a grant and the loans with interest will have to be paid back. One view is expressed as :

“In another article from Dawn, Khurram Hussain tallies up the costs. He writes that “the debt service outflows will be about $1 billion and the return on equity will be $646 million if it is kept at 17 percent. Add to that $1.9 per cent as repayment of principal. That means an annual net outflow of $3.546 billion per year once the corridor becomes fully operational.” Prominent local economists have also expressed serious concerns over Pakistan’s ability to service the debt. Hafiz Pasha, a former finance minister, and Ashfaq Hassan, a former adviser to the Finance Ministry, have estimated that CPEC loans will add $14 billion to Pakistan’s total public debt, raising it to $90 billion by the fiscal year ending June 2019.”

https://thediplomat.com/2017/06/can-pakistan-afford-cpec/


I am not fully convinced that it a game changer and feel that Chinese goods would have adverse effect of Pakistani industry. Regarding the statement “Since China" needs "Pakistan" why should Pakistan pay China at all? I would say that the agreement has already been signed and it is too early to fully assess its impact on Pakistan’s economy. There is little justification for trying to alter ‘Terms & conditions’ of the agreement at this stage.

However, every project involving foreign investment must be a “win-win” for the investor as well as for the country of investment. Should it turn out to be a one sided affair after CPEC has been in operation for a couple of years; Pakistan would be justified to ask China for better terms.

 

[Verve]

Without meeting the conditions for a plebiscite there is no option. Now the chance of any Plebiscite is zero as it became a bilateral issue. Thanks to Bhutto.

Now, Hindu or Muslims government, the real point is, India cannot and will not give up the area. Why do you think if India had a muslim ruler there will be any difference? UN or any international body has no locus-standi in J&K.

Hindu won't even talk about implementation of UN resolutions. And cried to UN to stop Pakistan then

If India can't and won't give up that area against the wishes of Kashmiri people then bring on the war and take our side by force or shut the f*** up about roads going through GB.

You are hated by the population in your controlled area and we are loved by those in our controlled. And you can't handle that and roads.

 

[BetterPakistan]

Indian concerns doesn't matter at all. China and Pakistan are both clear on making CPEC successful and it is their right to do so. If India will dare to interfere both countries will tackle India simultaneously.

 

[American Pakistani]

Don't twist history. You have google, so search. Kalat opted for independence. Why do you thing there is a insurgency now in Baluchistan?

You are blinded by your army and media. Do you want a proof by none other but the grandson of Khan of Kalat? I can post video here to feed you like a s0n.

Who gave you the right to speak about Kashmir and Jammu?

No matter how hard you want, Pakistan isn't backing an inch from Kashmir issue. Kashmir, historically, culturally, racially, linguistically, religiously, geographically was, is and remain Pakistan.

As for who gave you right then let me remind you that Kashmir is not your d@d's jageer, unlike maharatra, khalistan, assam, etc Kashmir is illegally occupied by 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists, once indian terrorists leave Kashmir, you will see where Kashmir goes. Why do you think india is afraid of helding a refrendum?

 

[The Eagle]

Don't twist history. You have google, so search. Kalat opted for independence. Why do you thing there is a insurgency now in Baluchistan?

Don't try to pose as so innocent. Read NaMO's fake love for Balochistan then old Indian strategy for this province of Pakistan even before start of CPEC because Gawadar has been on demand not just for many others but US itself. I remember, Musharraf handed over the same to China back in days where G.W Bush arrived on short notice for a short span of time in Islamabad only to vent his anger, even threatens and shows high disappointment for this decision. Seeing the all big players, vouching for Gawadar to be leased to A,B or C party, only due to exceptional importance of region; Pakistan decided to go with a party where the balance will not be tilted to any side while Pakistan will be benefiting from own resources fully. In desperation and as a counter propaganda working upon the formula to as Lie as much as world will start to doubt the truth, every now & then, we see different kind of stories, twisted statement and logic along with ill narrated words so that people may be misled. Pakistan is fully aware of threat in Baluchistan and prominently, we have dealt with the same and are close to wipe from the face of Country. Definitely, mentioning of Baluchistan and the fake sympathy towards the terrorists, is nothing new nor different than the set course of Indian strategy for Pakistan.

Looking at the rapid change in geopolitics and continues reformation of region, not to be surprised, terrorism in Baluchistan fueled with more terrorists and attacks even than before. I am not in mood to write down all the nursery education paragraphs here though, cutting long into short, lastly the Kulbhashan chapter actually tells a lot that how events unfolded here. India has been dying hard fan of being blue eyed boy of D.C since long especially since Pakistan has been close to US for many reasons and mostly of Afghan chapter where Islamabad became an ally of D.C and the same was not very digestive for Delhi hence, deepening love for Moscow.

How come someone really forget all the events, development and aftermath when it comes to a subject which is well understood for many around though, as a norm and promise of certain parties, very few will adhere to speak as such. Baluchistan insurgency is well funded and may be it would be a surprise for you to mention but what we see closely or may be I am the one that observes as such, this kind of highly planned terrorism activity is not the act of a single party and I wouldn't blame India alone. However, looking the mutual subject of interest for many, it was all about whom to push forward and when the matter being discussed for everyone's national interest, parties with money actually went on back seat to spend and be relaxed whereby available pawns with evil strategy actually rented out and became involved on ground. The day & night efforts of India to seek an approach & link in Afghanistan is nothing more than what the investors wants one to do yet, this is not about betterment but to draw a circle to contain Pakistan through Afghanistan border yet, fulfilling US needs against all the money. LEMOA wasn't signed for mere show off but indeed, US agreements are made to be fulfilled and NaMO actually pushed India into this that too because of parties vendetta based upon hating others.

Referring to Khan of Kalat and the history, contrary to what Indian Authors use to twist, read Quaid-e-Azam's statements along with Khan, in this regard. No matter how much refutes brought to you, this is the fact and is not intended to convince anyone unwilling as such. (Chapter closed here).

 

[Chhatrapati]

No matter how hard you want, Pakistan isn't backing an inch from Kashmir issue. Kashmir, historically, culturally, racially, linguistically, religiously, geographically was, is and remain Pakistan.

As for who gave you right then let me remind you that Kashmir is not your d@d's jageer, unlike maharatra, khalistan, assam, etc Kashmir is illegally occupied by 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists, once indian terrorists leave Kashmir, you will see where Kashmir goes. Why do you think india is afraid of helding a refrendum?

Pakistan is a multicultural country like India. Historically it wasn't a part of Pakistan either. (Pakistan never existed before 1947). Islam is a religion, it is not a native religion of Pakistan, it originated towards the west of Pakistan. Linguistically Koshur is not similar to Urdu, it has a very different style. Geograhically Kashmir is Part of Indian sub continent.

Kashmir, was, is and will remain part of India for the time to come. You lost the best chance in 65. Now it's gone for ever.

Don't jump on any referendum crap. Nobody cares about that since a long time. UN is useless, UNSC is useless, your only option is to take it by force. Looking at your current state, there is no such hope.

If India can't and won't give up that area against the wishes of Kashmiri

If you love the Kashmiri so much, then take them to GB, AJK, or any other place. The land and it's rivers and all other resources belong to India.

And will remain so. LOC will become the border.

 

[Verve]

LOC will become the border.

India, as you know it, will cease to exist.

If you love the Kashmiri so much, then take them to GB, AJK, or any other place. The land and it's rivers and all other resources belong to India.

Kashmiris are of the soil, not you or some tw*t sitting in Delhi and elsewhere. Only Kashmiris have the right to self determination.

 

[ranadd]

India, as you know it, will cease to exist.



Kashmiris are of the soil, not you or some tw*t sitting in Delhi and elsewhere. Only Kashmiris have the right to self determination.

Nah.

No country with any credible strength will allow their territory to secede or be annexed. So.. Nah.

 

[hussain0216]

Pakistan is a multicultural country like India. Historically it wasn't a part of Pakistan either. (Pakistan never existed before 1947). Islam is a religion, it is not a native religion of Pakistan, it originated towards the west of Pakistan. Linguistically Koshur is not similar to Urdu, it has a very different style. Geograhically Kashmir is Part of Indian sub continent.

Kashmir, was, is and will remain part of India for the time to come. You lost the best chance in 65. Now it's gone for ever.

Don't jump on any referendum crap. Nobody cares about that since a long time. UN is useless, UNSC is useless, your only option is to take it by force. Looking at your current state, there is no such hope.


If you love the Kashmiri so much, then take them to GB, AJK, or any other place. The land and it's rivers and all other resources belong to India.

And will remain so. LOC will become the border.

Kashmir is a Muslim majority state that as per partition wishes to be part of a independent Muslim state outside the influence of a Hindu India.

The kashmiris do not wish to be as dickless and de-balled as Indian Muslims

Nah.

No country with any credible strength will allow their territory to secede or be annexed. So.. Nah.

Credible strength has nothing to to with it,

The people of a Muslim majority Kashmir just want freedom from being under the occupation of a hindu India, they want partition that was denied them the right to separate and not have to live with Hindus

Forcing them has created emnity in south asia

 

[Verve]

Nah.

No country with any credible strength will allow their territory to secede or be annexed. So.. Nah.

The issue is that the Hindu maniacs in power and the maniacs growing in population think that GB and Azad Kashmir are their territory too. And that will eventually result in war.

Are you foolish enough to think that Pakistan will let you take GB and AK by force? We will break you up properly come next big war. You will start it and we will end it with your demise

 

[rishav]

The people of a Muslim majority Kashmir just want freedom from being under the occupation of a hindu India, they want partition that was denied them the right to separate and not have to live with Hindus

Forcing them has created emnity in south asia

we won't allow another country to be carved out of india based on religion . come what may . you have tried your best to take kashmir in the weakest intial 70 years of india and couldn't do so . so forget about pulling it off in future . Majority of indians don't give a rat's a** about the "feelings" of the muslim majority there lol . we just won't give up the land . If you want , come and take it . simple as that , and also enjoy eternity of instability in your country while you are at it . kyuki eet ka jawab pathar se dena india ko aata hai

 

[ranadd]

The issue is that the Hindu maniacs in power and the maniacs growing in population think that GB and Azad Kashmir are their territory too. And that will eventually result in war.

Are you foolish enough to think that Pakistan will let you take GB and AK by force? We will break you up properly come next big war. You will start it and we will end it with your demise

Let’s be serious for a second, Pakistan nor China is capable of breaking up India.

Again being serious, India always bats for status quo. It’s the other teams that want to win or breakup or humiliate. The hanuman army is simply too powerful to do that. Pak army knows it and Chinese army knows it as well. Hence the talk of two front war, thousand cuts etc.

Still, fighting a credible nuclear power with enough resources, Good luck. You will need it.

 

[Verve]

Let’s be serious for a second, Pakistan nor China is capable of breaking up India.

Again being serious, India always bats for status quo. It’s the other teams that want to win or breakup or humiliate. The hanuman army is simply too powerful to do that. Pak army knows it and Chinese army knows it as well. Hence the talk of two front war, thousand cuts etc.

Still, fighting a credible nuclear power with enough resources, Good luck. You will need it.

Maybe you have a problem reading ... IF you start the war, WE will end it with YOUR demise.

For our survival we will break you up.

BTW, why do you think GB and AK are your part??? If you claims J&K to be yours, then why claim on parts we control eh? Why all the bitching and moaning about CPEC then? oh wait - you people are two faced!

 

[Laozi]

Kashmir is a Muslim majority state that as per partition wishes to be part of a independent Muslim state outside the influence of a Hindu India.

Balochistan was a Baloch majority state but now it is NOT.

We will apply some of the solutions ( in Kashmir) which your establishment has applied to fix such problems.

 

[ranadd]

Maybe you have a problem reading ... IF you start the war, WE will end it with YOUR demise.

For our survival we will break you up.

BTW, why do you think GB and AK are your part??? If you claims J&K to be yours, then why claim on parts we claim eh? Why all the bitching and moaning about CPEC then? oh wait - you people are two faced!

I am not surprised by your comprehension skills. So..

Me say Pak-China Not strong enough to break India.

Me say Hanuman army strong enough.

Me say bye now.