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Indian Navy Official Film 2015

1) The "unspoken promise" between an officer/captain and his men in the IN exists in a similar form in the IA. The IA imparts a proud "lead from the front" warrior tradtion in its officers and has a concept of "unlimited liability".

Yes its a broad ethos in the whole military. However it has been present in a special way in the Navy above all...given the psychology of being in a large tin can with significant numbers of fellow warriors.

2) On your final part about an Admiral wanting a ship from their shores for reasons relating to pride. I'm sure this plays a part in the compulsions of the Admiral however I think the true reason is one you have stated earlier. The fact that a ship will go to sea for extended periods of time and it is up to the crew to keep her sea worthy during that time means that it will be a far easier task if these ships were indegenious and of your own design. Naturally a ship that you have designed yourself (as the NDB does), built and, just as importantly, maintained in your country by your people is inherently advantageous when it comes to things going wrong/troubleshooting and skilling your crew because at the end of the day that is the most important thing- being able to perform on your own as a self-contained unit and thus the skills have to exsist within your own unit. The IA and IAF on the other hand have the luxery of working with foreign OEMs on the mainland with no issues whatsoever- they can bring in their people or can at least work with you (IAF/IA), the IN needs to be able to do itself.

Yup thats basically the very pragmatic analysis of the issue. It's one reason I also regret Indian does not have a proper Marine force like the US and UK. In times of war, it is important to always assume everything that can go wrong...will...and prepare for it....and whoever can best "localise" the problem-solving will prevail.....because supply chains and logistics are best had as short as possible for any military. Its how the best commanders in any era prevailed (when they didn't necessarily outclass their opponents in numbers and technology - just refer to Napoleon!).
 
Yup thats basically the very pragmatic analysis of the issue. It's one reason I also regret Indian does not have a proper Marine force like the US and UK. In times of war, it is important to always assume everything that can go wrong...will...and prepare for it....and whoever can best "localise" the problem-solving will prevail.....because supply chains and logistics are best had as short as possible for any military. Its how the best commanders in any era prevailed (when they didn't necessarily outclass their opponents in numbers and technology - just refer to Napoleon!).
Marine force in terms of Marine infantry?
 
Yah proper Marine Corps.
Ah yes, and in that case the UK's Marines are a little out of place- they are still entirely a subset of the Royal Navy and cannot prosecute their own operations indepdendatly without the RN and, in practice, extensive support from the RAF and Army. They are more of a specialised unit than a force in its own right.

The USMC, on the other hand, is in a league of one and its capabilties are truly breath taking considering it is just one of the wings of the US Military. It is easily one of the most capable militaries in the world just by itself with its own heavy lift helicopters, attack helos, fighter jets, transport aircraft, artillery, main battle tanks, IFVs etc etc


In India's context I don't find the lack of such a force all too regretable as I can understand the reasons why no such force exsists. Naturally the Indian Army under the British had no such force as the "Royal Indian Army" was to keep the "British Raj" secure (from China and the Afghans) whilst also serving in other parts of the British Empire for similar security tasks. And thus when the (independant) Indian Military came to be in 1947 no such legacy exsisted and quickly the first war was upon India in Kashmir (landlocked) meaning no one was even contemplating the need for a marine infantry force.

From 1947 to relatively recently there has been little overt requirement for such a force given that it is inherently an expeditionary force and throughout this period India's doctrine has been entirely defensive AND, just as importantly, focused on Pakistan (where there is little scope for a Marine/amphibious invasion). One can should also note that land warfare (and thus the IA) has heavily dominated the strategic thinking of the Indian leadership throughout this period. So yes, the IA did convert/task some of its battalions to be capable of launching amphibious operations and these forces have been training in this role alongside the IN with its limited fleet of LPD and LST but it is very peicemeal and more of a contingency than an overt strategy.

Drawing a line under such aforementioned history now, one can see that India's interests are expanding globally, Pakistan is no longer hogging much attention with decion makers, and India is looking more outwardly than ever before. It is no coincidence that in the past decade or so there has been a descernable focus given to the IN. The IN is now no longer mandated to simply protect India's shores, it is now tasked to project India's power- the IN has played by FAR the biggest role of all the three services in the GoI's "Look East" policy. And it is here that the IN will now look to (the East) and think that they require such a (Marine expeditionary) force.


Now, If one looks to what is happening in the IN's premier amphibious training school in the A&N islands, sees that the IN is looking for 4 LHD/LPD and has even shown an interest in the DRDO/TATA Kestral IFV (with amphibious capabilties) then it all points to one thing..........things have changed and watch this space.


@Echo_419 @Aminroop @Spectre @Koovie @PARIKRAMA
 
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An exceptional post my friend that explains a lot about the cultures of each branch that has lead to what we see today. @Echo_419 @Aminroop


I would just like to make a few minor points:

1) The "unspoken promise" between an officer/captain and his men in the IN exists in a similar form in the IA. The IA imparts a proud "lead from the front" warrior tradtion in its officers and has a concept of "unlimited liability".

2) On your final part about an Admiral wanting a ship from their shores for reasons relating to pride. I'm sure this plays a part in the compulsions of the Admiral however I think the true reason is one you have stated earlier. The fact that a ship will go to sea for extended periods of time and it is up to the crew to keep her sea worthy during that time means that it will be a far easier task if these ships were indegenious and of your own design. Naturally a ship that you have designed yourself (as the NDB does), built and, just as importantly, maintained in your country by your people is inherently advantageous when it comes to things going wrong/troubleshooting and skilling your crew because at the end of the day that is the most important thing- being able to perform on your own as a self-contained unit and thus the skills have to exsist within your own unit. The IA and IAF on the other hand have the luxery of working with foreign OEMs on the mainland with no issues whatsoever- they can bring in their people or can at least work with you (IAF/IA), the IN needs to be able to do itself.
Thanks for the tag.
I was looking at the Karwar smart Naval base. I heard it has many underground submarine pens and that Karwar along with Vajrakosh is the largest naval base east of Suez Canal.
I like its location, it is located at the right distance from Pakistan. Karwar base will prove to be a major advantage for IN.
 
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Let's stick to the topic gentlemen- the Indian Navy 2015, this is not the time to delve into the histroy books.
@waz sir please clean up this thread.



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on topic:

When do you hear the IA reffereing to themselves as a "builder's army" or boasting about their attempts to indigenise? Fair enough the IN is still very relient on foreign products (especially in the top end requirements) but they have at least set the goal of indigenising as much as possible in the near future- the IA doesn't even state its intent to. The IA's top brass just isn't strategically focused outside of the battlefield. As combat leaders they are sublime but as project managers or visionaries they are severely lacking as compared to the IN (and IAF to a lesser extent). One cannot blame the IA entirely- this is a byproduct of their culture and is found in armies around the world. The IN is inherently a very technical force and its officers will have a strategic mindset by the very nature of being a maritime force- the IA is, on the other hand, very sheltered- they still think an army's power is measured in the number of divsions/corps you have.

@Echo_419 @Water Car Engineer @Kinetic @Aminroop @Nilgiri

Awesome line:
"Can do has made way for- yes we did it!"


Well said bro. IN is a force with most modern war tools, satellites, nuke subs, slbm, stealth frigates, carriers. Now IAF and IA are far behind. We need to look at them. Specially I am worried about IA. Modi need a stick
 
Well said bro. IN is a force with most modern war tools, satellites, nuke subs, slbm, stealth frigates, carriers. Now IAF and IA are far behind. We need to look at them. Specially I am worried about IA. Modi need a stick
The IAF isn't far behind the IN but the IA is by a pathetic margin. .
 
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