Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Lankan Ranger]

Saab Touts Sea Gripen for India

Saab is responding to an Indian Navy (IN) request for information (RfI) regarding future carrier-capable fighters with a new development of the Gripen NG, dubbed the Sea Gripen. India's RfI, selectively released to bidders over recent weeks, seeks detailed information on a common aircraft design for conventional aircraft carrier operations and short take-off but arrested recovery (STOBAR) operations.

Beyond the (much delayed) entry into service of the INS Vikramaditya (the rebuilt former Russian Navy vessel Admiral Gorshkov ), India has ambitious plans to build three indigenous aircraft carriers (IACs). Near-term procurement of the MiG-29K should equip Vikramaditya and IAC 1. The IN's RfI is looking for a follow-on type to operate from IAC 2 and 3.

Prior to receiving the RfI Saab had completed detailed design pre-studies for the Sea Gripen in response to earlier interest from Brazil and others. In fact, designs for a navalised Gripen date back to the 1980s in Sweden. For Saab the Indian requirement is particularly important because of its potential links with Brazil's F-X2 fighter competition. The Sea Gripen would be part of the long-term industrial development package for India, India should either country select the Gripen NG. The Indian RfI also makes a specific request that India's chosen aircraft should be exportable.

Saab's Sea Gripen project leader is former Swedish Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Peter Nilsson, now vice-president of operational capabilities for the Gripen. "You have the Rafale, Super Hornet, even - some day - the JSF [Joint Strike Fighter], but no affordable option for nations that want independent seapower. Gripen has a built-in carrier capability that was part of the original design consideration. It is made for precision landings on a short strip. The aerodynamics, handling and landing qualities are all there. You don't have to mess with it," he told Jane's .

The Sea Gripen is made possible by the inherent performance characteristics of the Gripen and the structural changes introduced with the Gripen NG. It has been designed to operate from 'full-spec' carriers at a maximum take-off weight of 16,500 kg and a landing weight (with weapons and fuel) of 3,500 kg. The same basic design parameters make it well suited to STOBAR operations. Any Gripen can already operate from a standard Swedish 'roadbase' strip of 800 m x 17 m, without arrestor hooks or brake chutes. Existing flight control qualities and low approach speed make the Gripen further suited to the carrier environment.

Some of the changes demanded for the Sea Gripen include a stronger, longer nose gear, with larger tyres and a new shock absorber; a new main undercarriage capable of absorbing a 6.3 m/sec sink rate; a strengthened arrestor hook, repositioned from the current design; removal of corrosion risks from the airframe using new manufacturing techniques/materials; and integration with an approach/landing system.

The result will be an aircraft with an empty weight of under 8,000 kg with a total fuel and weapon load of around 8,500 kg. Combat radius is estimated at around 1,250 km in a maritime strike profile or 1,400 km in an offensive counter-air profile. For carrier operations the aircraft will have a service life of 8,000 flight hours with an even distribution between shipborne and land-based operations. Nilsson says the design work done so far has been a serious adjunct to the Gripen NG and has a very real footing. Asked about the inherent difficulties in taking any land-based fighter and putting it on a carrier, Nilsson replied: "If you were starting with an ordinary fighter you would have a much bigger problem."

"We have an engine [General Electric's F414] cleared for naval ops by the US Navy. We have thoroughly studied the load paths through the airframe. The Gripen is already built for high sink-rate landings in road base operations. So we need a new nose gear and undercarriage and we'll have to change some of the internal structure, but it's been analysed and it's possible. We built an arrestor hook into the Gripen NG proposal for Norway. That will have to be strengthened for carrier ops, with a new attachment point, but the work is there. Today's Gripen NG has a better wing attachment design with a more distributed load path than the current Gripen.

"The Gripen already has a salt water protection requirement. It does need more study but we already have an aircraft designed to operate in -50°C and +50°C, from the Arctic to hot-and-high with severe humidity. We don't build fighters for nice sunny days." Saab expects to make initial presentations to the IN in January 2010 and submit an RfI response the following month.

From:ASIAN DEFENCE: Saab Touts Sea Gripen for India and Brazil

 

[gogbot]

Honestly I don't know why Saab believes it can win.

It is hands down the worst plane on Offer.

Its going to Boeing, Eurfighter Gmbh , Dassult or Mikoyan.
At the very least Lockheed would get the contract.

Lockheed Martin has offered to sell India the F-35 Lightning II aircraft in the future, as replacements, if the F-16 is chosen.

Saab is just wasting its time and money.

 

[Red Dwarf]

F-16 is surely out of the question. Does that mean that India will never get F-35. Also why do you think Gripen is worse.

 

[sudhir007]

F-16 is surely out of the question. Does that mean that India will never get F-35. Also why do you think Gripen is worse.

I dnt think so coze IN does not like single engine if it then they have lca which is very close to Gripen

 

[gogbot]

F-16 is surely out of the question. Does that mean that India will never get F-35. Also why do you think Gripen is worse.

Because the F-16 than is better then the SAAB. Both technically and politically. Sure logistically its dumb *** move to get the f-16(since Pak already has them). But hey its better than the Saab.

But regardless these two are at the bottom of the bucket.

Mig-35 has a better chance of getting the Deal then F-16.
No disrespect to the Mig. But we need a better Muti role aircraft.

 

[jha]

heard some where that navy plans to have ~150 aircrafts in its kitty...this is more than the no. of fighters in some air-forces...

 

[Red Dwarf]

What are the other options we have regarding carrier aircraft. Do you got any idea about the number of aircrafts that IAC can carry. Also which aircraft India used as a benchmark in designing the IAC.

 

[gogbot]

What are the other options we have regarding carrier aircraft. Do you got any idea about the number of aircrafts that IAC can carry. Also which aircraft India used as a benchmark in designing the IAC.

Well IAC use the STOBAR configuration.

STOBAR (Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery) is a system used for the launch and recovery of aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier, combining elements of both STOVL and CATOBAR. Aircraft launch under their own power using a ski-jump to assist take-off (rather than using a catapult like most carriers). However, these are conventional, rather than STOVL aircraft, and thus require arrestor wires to land on the ship. The Russian Navy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is the only current example of a STOBAR carrier, another will be the Indian Vikramaditya and the future Vikrant class aircraft carrier. The STOBAR system is simpler to build than CATOBAR — but it works only with light, and lightly armed, fighter aircraft that have a high thrust to weight ratio.

When the Eurofighter was proposed for the "Future Carrier Borne Aircraft" it was envisaged that it would operate in a STOBAR configuration. The FCBA is to be deployed on the British Royal Navy's next generation carriers, CVF. Instead, the Lockheed Martin Lightning II, operating in a STOVL configuration, will be the FCBA.

It cant launch many foreign aircraft.
Other than the Mig-29K, F-35, Eurofighter(concept) and British HArriers.

Some fighters may be Modified to fly of this configuration.(F-18 and Rafael possibly with reduced Payloads)

So few Fighters are available given the Fact that so few nations even have AC(even fewer actually make their own sea aircraft), most of them are just designed to operate on the CATOBAR configuration Carriers that the US and France operate.

Aircraft Carriers and the Planes to use on them Are very rare. Only a select few nations even have AC. Even less Use the STOBAR configuration. And even less Aircraft are made to Operate on Such carriers.

 

[gogbot]

What are the other options we have regarding carrier aircraft. Do you got any idea about the number of aircrafts that IAC can carry. Also which aircraft India used as a benchmark in designing the IAC.

Well IAC use the STOBAR configuration.

STOBAR (Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery) is a system used for the launch and recovery of aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier, combining elements of both STOVL and CATOBAR. Aircraft launch under their own power using a ski-jump to assist take-off (rather than using a catapult like most carriers). However, these are conventional, rather than STOVL aircraft, and thus require arrestor wires to land on the ship. The Russian Navy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is the only current example of a STOBAR carrier, another will be the Indian Vikramaditya and the future Vikrant class aircraft carrier. The STOBAR system is simpler to build than CATOBAR — but it works only with light, and lightly armed, fighter aircraft that have a high thrust to weight ratio.

When the Eurofighter was proposed for the "Future Carrier Borne Aircraft" it was envisaged that it would operate in a STOBAR configuration. The FCBA is to be deployed on the British Royal Navy's next generation carriers, CVF. Instead, the Lockheed Martin Lightning II, operating in a STOVL configuration, will be the FCBA.

It cant launch many foreign aircraft.
Other than the Mig-29K, F-35, Eurofighter(concept) and British HArriers.

Some fighters may be Modified to fly of this configuration.(F-18 and Rafael possibly with reduced Payloads)

So few Fighters are available given the Fact that so few nations even have AC(even fewer actually make their own sea aircraft), most of them are just designed to operate on the CATOBAR configuration Carriers that the US and France operate.

Aircraft Carriers and the Planes to use on them Are very rare. Only a select few nations even have AC. Even less Use the STOBAR configuration. And even less Aircraft are made to Operate on Such carriers.

 

[sudhir007]

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Deck not ready yet, navy scouts for aircraft

New Delhi, Dec. 28: The Indian Navy has invited five global makers of combat planes, including the US-led F-35C Joint Strike Fighter, to participate in a competition for deck-based aircraft that it wants to buy.

Deck-based aircraft for navies have special requirements — like foldable wings because of limited space in carriers and ability for short/vertical take-off and landing.

India’s biggest military hardware supplier, Russia, which was asked for information on the Sukhoi-33, has opted out of the race saying it is phasing out the plane, a navy source told The Telegraph.

But Russia is negotiating with China to sell 50 Sukhoi-33 aircraft for the Chinese PLA Navy’s aircraft-carrier programme.

The first four of 12 Russian-made MiG 29K fighter aircraft contracted for the Indian Navy, however, reached India earlier this month. The aircraft are yet to be assembled because they were delivered in a knocked-down condition.
A MiG 29K deck-based aircraft at an airshow

The MiG 29K are to be based on the INS Vikramaditya, as the Indian Navy has rechristened the Gorshkov carrier for which a re-negotiated price is yet to be contracted.

Essentially, the Indian Navy is now beginning to get the aircraft without the carrier to base them in. So it has fashioned an airstrip that is mimicking the Gorshkov’s flying deck in the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa, to induct the MiG 29K.

Among the five aircraft for which the Indian Navy has sent Requests for Information (RFI) are the F-18 Superhornet (made by Boeing for the US Navy), Eurofighter Typhoon (EADS supported by a European consortium) and France’s Dassault Aviation for the Rafale.

The Indian Navy had originally not sent an RFI to Sweden’s SAAB but the company expressed interest and was sent a request for the naval variant of the Gripen JAS 39.

The Superhornet, Eurofighter, Rafale and the Gripen are among six aircraft (the other two being the F-16 Super Viper and the MiG 35) contending for the biggest fighter aircraft competition going in the world today — the Indian Air Force’s order for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft that could be worth more than $12 billion.

The Indian Navy’s overt interest in the F-35C Lightning II is a bit of a surprise. The F-35C is the US Navy variant of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme being implemented by Lockheed Martin and is known in the aviation industry as the only fifth-generation aircraft.

The naval variant was rolled out of Lockheed’s plant in Fort Worth, Texas, only in July this year. It is yet to be flight-tested.

Apart from the US, nine other countries are participating in developing the JSF — the UK, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore and Turkey. India has separate agreements with Russia to co-develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) but that is nowhere near the stage of development that the JSF has reached.

The navy officer said the plan was to raise a squadron (between 16 and 20 aircraft) for the aircraft carrier that India is building on its own in Kochi (called IAC for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier). The IAC will be at least eight years in the making (2018).

The deck-based aircraft competition is being thrown open to global makers as a contingency measure because India’s own Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is inordinately delayed.

The Indian Navy’s only aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, that sails with British vintage Sea Harrier aircraft onboard was refitted after being in the dry dock for nearly two years till November.

Its fleet of aircraft is also depleting fast with not enough back-ups. The navy now has less than a squadron-strength of the aircraft.
Top

 

[jha]

whoa ...where did that come from.....????
excellent news if true....
imo on next iac f-35 may be deployed...

 

[jha]

however read somewhere that india is not interested in F-35. what caused the change ???? may be navy does not want to be behind air-force in the generation of aircrafts.....
jha

 

[gogbot]

however read somewhere that india is not interested in F-35. what caused the change ???? may be navy does not want to be behind air-force in the generation of aircrafts.....
jha

IAF is not interested as the F-35 is still in development. And needs fighter now to replace those Mig-21's

IN can wait till 2015 when the F-35 is ready for Induction and Sales.
IN has already expressed Interest in the F-35 before.

The F-35 is hands down the best carrier aircraft out there. Currently.
Getting it would remarkably Improve the Capabilities of the IN and put it in league with western navies.

It will also give the IN a significant edge over PLAN. Which i find all the more enticing.

 

[sudhir007]

domain-b.com : Weapons fit-out commences on Indian stealth frigate

Moscow: Russian naval shipyard Yantar has begun the process of installing weapons on the first of three stealth frigates, INS Teg, being constructed by it for India at a Kaliningrad-based naval shipyard under a $1.6 billion deal signed in 2007. The Krivak-class stealth frigate 'INS Teg' was 'floated out' by the yard recently.


INS Talwar
"Two torpedo units are being installed on the Teg frigate, which was launched on November 27. The works are on schedule. The Teg has been armed with a BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missile battery," Sergei Mikhailov, a spokesman for Yantar was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS.

"Installing the weapons on board the frigate is in accordance with the construction schedule of the ship," Mikhailov added.

Earlier ships of the Krivak 1135.6, or the 'Talwar' class, were supplied by the St Petersburg-based Baltiisky Zavod shipyard. While INS Talwar was the lead ship, others were the INS Trishul and INS Tabar.

The contract for the three follow-on ships was given to the Yantar shipyard and these have been designated as INS Teg (Sabre), INS Tarkash (Quiver) and INS Trikand (Bow). These names continue an Indian naval tradition of naming warships of the same class beginning with same letter.

The first ship, INS Teg is 70 per cent ready and will be delivered to the Indian Navy in 2011, while the other two frigates would be handed over in 2012.

 

[sudhir007]

http://indiannavy.nic.in/maritime_strat.pdf