Indian Muslims left behind in Gujarat's growth story

[desioptimist]

^^^ Some one here seriously believes TEHELKA

Please remind him it is our version of Moin Ansari,Ahmad Qureshi kinda crap.

There is truth in those allegations. And we should not compare ourslelves with pakistan, but with countries that live in better harmony.
Muslims are suspected, and we hindus accept people of all other religion more openly(sikhs, jains, buddhists, parsis, even christians) compared to muslims. Hope things will change.
Also, I feel sick when muslims have to prove their loyalty to country. Whereever I see Madani & Co shouting and screaming how much they are Indian and love India, the more it proves the fact that they are under pressure.
No other minority community does that. Why?

 

[KS]

It's a well researched article by TIME magazine, quoting official data and interviews with a number of people, including Hindus. It references independent studies that document rampant Hindu discrimination against Muslims.

Nope, is a plain observation of a terrorist. No wishy washys on that.

The article compares the affect of Hindu discrimination on two Muslims: one became a policeman and the other a terrorist. I can understand you want to avoid the main gist of the article and focus on side details. A natural tendency when the main facts are uncomfortable to digest.

And I'm sure you would have got that 'indigestion problem' when some magazine publishes the interview of Hakimullah and why he became a terrorist.

Actually I am astounded that you have the gall to cite the observations of a terrorist as the condition of the Muslims in India. There is no difference between a Middle class Muslim or a Middle class Hindu in the way they conduct their day to day lives,

All these talks about Hindu discrimination is just to instill a fear amongst them, unite them and get their votes enmasse in the next election.

BTW peepz I missed out this jewel from the supposedly well-researched article,

"There is often a tendency in India to treat Muslims as them rather than us," says K.C. Tyagi, former leader of the moderate Hindu Samajwadi Party.

Samajwadi Party is moderate Hindu. WoW

 

[Zeeshan360]

These Pakistanis always thin that Indian Muslims are treated like S***
Lol on u ppl

Indian Muslims are much developed than Pakistani counterparts . I am a Muslim so I can say that
We lack when it comes education and Hindus are more educated, they are not to be blamed .
But when it comes to richness , in my native placeI have seen Muslims are much more richer than Hindus coz they work in Gulf countries .

There are many uneducates Muslims earning 500-600$ per month in Gulf
So when it comes to liviing standards Muslims .
These survey is very biased just to create problems

 

[KS]

There is truth in those allegations. And we should not compare ourslelves with pakistan, but with countries that live in better harmony.

Where did I compare to Pakistan. I said Tehelka is our version of Moin Ansari/Ahmad Qureshi. Becasue even what they write have 'some truth'. But they exaggerate it and completely ignore the other side of the story.

Muslims are suspected, and we hindus accept people of all other religion more openly(sikhs, jains, buddhists, parsis, even christians) compared to muslims. Hope things will change.

Suspected ...as In ?

Also, I feel sick when muslims have to prove their loyalty to country. Whereever I see Madani & Co shouting and screaming how much they are Indian and love India, the more it proves the fact that they are under pressure.

Let them not just shout. Let them just work with their community men and bring them out of their backwardness so that other communities are not blamed for it.

No other minority community does that. Why?

Becasue no one has a victim mentality just built inside them.

 

[Developereo]

Nope, is a plain observation of a terrorist. No wishy washys on that.



And I'm sure you would have got that 'indigestion problem' when some magazine publishes the interview of Hakimullah and why he became a terrorist.

Actually I am astounded that you have the gall to cite the observations of a terrorist as the condition of the Muslims in India.

There are about two or three paragraphs in that entire article that deal with Umer. The rest of it (3 pages) cites official statistics and quotes inteviews with Hindu and other independent observers.

I provided the link to the TIME magazine article. People without a reading disability or bias can read the full article and decide for themselves.

But they exaggerate it and completely ignore the other side of the story.

Uh huh, sure.
Everybody who disagrees with you is a terrorist or biased.
Even when they reference official police records.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Samajwadi Party is moderate Hindu. WoW

WOW, like that terrrorist was the moderate muslim!

That educated buy Vastanvi is sure going to have it tough on the 23rd now.

http://www.sify.com/news/was-pakist...vastanvi-lobby-news-national-lcru4jaiafc.html

 

[KS]

There are about two or three paragraphs in that entire article that deal with Umer. The rest of it (3 pages) cites official statistics and quotes inteviews with Hindu and other independent observers.

I provided the link to the TIME magazine article. People without a reading disability or bias can read the full article and decide for themselves.

Can you point out that because as far as I saw except for some 'anonymous' (oh how convinient) official from Gujarat, there is no other semblance of 'research' and 'statistics' in that cr@p.

In rural India, 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus;

Not a big difference.

in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%.

Which cities, what is the sample population - nothing is mentioned.

Some 13% of India's population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees,

Sikhs account for 3 % of the Population yet comprise 13% of the Armed forces. Jains and Parsis account for less than 1.5% of the total population, yet are some of the wealthiest communities in India. Discrimination anyone ?

And these are 'Statistics'.

Uh huh, sure.
Everybody who disagrees with you is a terrorist or biased.
Even when they reference official police records.

Yes, if the person disagreeing is a terrorist himself who tales pride in killing civilians in bomb blasts.

But anyway shows the credibility of the magazine , when it interviews a terrorist and does not inform the police about his whereabouts.

BTW what is the discrimination of you Punjabis that is causing Hakimullah to do all he is doing ?

 

[desioptimist]

Where did I compare to Pakistan. I said Tehelka is our version of Moin Ansari/Ahmad Qureshi. Becasue even what they write have 'some truth'. But they exaggerate it and completely ignore the other side of the story.



Suspected ...as In ?



Let them not just shout. Let them just work with their community men and bring them out of their backwardness so that other communities are not blamed for it.



Becasue no one has a victim mentality just built inside them.

Karthik, are you really convinced that muslims do not face any discrimination from majority community? Or are you defending your pride of being Indian here. I am not taking all the blames for backwardness of muslims, but as a majority community, should take a fair share of blame.
What Indian muslims say here does not represent their overall state, statistics( like Sacchar commission report) does.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Can you point out that because as far as I saw except for some 'anonymous' (oh how convinient) official from Gujarat, there is no other semblance of 'research' and 'statistics' in that cr@p.


Not a big difference.



Which cities, what is the sample population - nothing is mentioned.



Sikhs account for 3 % of the Population yet comprise 13% of the Armed forces. Jains and Parsis account for less than 1.5% of the total population, yet are some of the wealthiest communities in India. Discrimination anyone ?

And these are 'Statistics'.

This data is from NCAER too

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/20806-indian-minorities-backward.html

What a fantastic way of comparing the data. I must say, some of these people creating the report has the sole aim of making it controversial.
He first compared Muslims with only the Higher Cast Hindus figure came eight times (gives a kick right). His sole purpose was to make the figure look big, then later he compared with OBC and the difference was very close (only 50%). What he did was convinetly forget entier poor hindus (lower caste is laregest and poorest is commonly know). I think the reason he choose to ignore poor Hindus is because the figure would have either eliminated the poverty difference or come out to be negligible.

Some people are just intrested to use statistics to show something gulliable people will not read. And you will meet some gullible people soon.

Thanks, its no gullibility, its malice.

India is made of up thousands of minorities, wasn't there a report posted here a few days ago on how the brahmins have become poorer over the years in some states? Yes we all belong to some group and face some issues at some levels. I have too. But all these reports never tell us HOW this discrimination affects people. Infact even Sachar said that the % of hindus and muslims who make it through the subjective interview process for ias is the same. the problem is at the quantitative level, where ones identity is NOT known.

These problems must be dealt with, most importantly by the communities lagging behind themselves. But to use these presentations for political point scoring is disingenious. and our neighbors doing it is downright hilarious.

 

[Developereo]

Can you point out that because as far as I saw except for some 'anonymous' (oh how convinient) official from Gujarat, there is no other semblance of 'research' and 'statistics' in that cr@p.

India's Hindus and Muslims: After the slaughter, what hope? | The Economist

Hindu victims of “terrorism”, however, are to get twice the compensation of 100,000 rupees—about $2,000—given to the mostly Muslim victims of “communal violence”.

Sikhs account for 3 % of the Population yet comprise 13% of the Armed forces. Jains and Parsis account for less than 1.5% of the total population, yet are some of the wealthiest communities in India. Discrimination anyone ?

The discussion is about discrimination against Muslims. Do try to focus.

Yes, if the person disagreeing is a terrorist himself who tales pride in killing civilians in bomb blasts.

Once again, the article only contains two or three statemetns by him. The rest of the article has nothing to do with.

But anyway shows the credibility of the magazine , when it interviews a terrorist and does not inform the police about his whereabouts.

You are going to stick your head under the sand because TIME magazine interviewed a terrorist and didn't say where he was? This is standard procedure in journalism. Now you are really grasping at straws.

 

[KS]

Karthik, are you really convinced that muslims do not face any discrimination from majority community? Or are you defending your pride of being Indian here. I am not taking all the blames for backwardness of muslims, but as a majority community, should take a fair share of blame.

I am just saying there is not such a big difference between the average Muslim and a Average Hindu in is economic condition. All the other communities are way above Hindus and Muslims in their development (see the link Fateh posted). Is that discriminatrion towards Hindus ?? NO. It is just we are not doing enough to improve ourselves.

I have not yet seen a case of clear cut discrimination just because some one is a Muslim though I have seen plenty in cases of regional discrimination.

A Hindu Tamil working in a Govt office will anyday take a Muslim Tamil to be his colleague than a Hindu Punjabi. And a Muslim speaking in Marathi has more chances in being let off by the traffic cop than when I speak in some non-Marathi lingo.

In India discrimination is there, but is pre-dominantly on regional lines than on religious lines.

What Indian muslims say here does not represent their overall state, statistics( like Sacchar commission report) does.

True, they needed to be uplifted. But without a little flexibility on their approach too, it is not possible.

 

[Punjabbi Munda]

NEW DELHI: Muslims in Gujarat have a long way to go. A new study shows there's deep-rooted poverty and income inequality among the state's lower castes and Muslims. The latter, in particular, fare poorly on parameters of poverty, hunger, education and vulnerability on security issues — benefiting little from the feel-good growth story of CM Narendra Modi's state.

In a study, Relative Development of Gujarat and Socio-Religious Differentials, economist Abusaleh Shariff used the National Sample Survey Organization (NSSO), National Council for Applied Economic Research's (NCAER) human development data and the Sachar Committee report, among others, to tabulate the status of Gujarat's Muslims. ''Estimation of poverty by social group is rare, but the NCAER survey data, and NSSO, allow for such estimates,'' says Shariff, also chief economist at NCAER.

Gujarat's levels of hunger are high, comparable to Orissa and Bihar, with only Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh having higher hunger levels. Urban poverty among the state's Muslims is eight times more than high-caste Hindus and 50% more than OBCs, Shariff says.

Muslims are educationally deprived: despite 75% enrolment of Muslim children in primary school, only 26% reach matriculation — this against 79% enrolment of others, except SCs/ STs, 41% of whom make it to matriculate.

The study is a first in series of studies of various states on similar lines, says Manzoor Alam of the Institute of Objective Studies, which organized its presentation. The purpose is to cut through rhetoric and show up the state of Muslims across states. ''We get lost in the talk on 'appeasement'. It's important to see the actual status of Muslims. So, Muslims know where they stand, and it will help governments formulate policy,'' says Alam.


'Muslims left behind in Gujarat's growth story' - The Times of India

TOI?!
Now it's not Orange Indian media for you?! Whatever makes you happy?!

 

[angeldust]

At the end of the day, even if we do try to focus, it all boils down to a matter of perspective, especially when the discussion is between people of differing ideologies that tore apart a nation. So when you come to think about it, is a muslim minority better off in hindu majority India or is a hindu (or sikh or christian) minority happier, safer, wealthier, less hungry, and more educated in muslim majority Pakistan? Assuming of course that they still openly remain hindu, sikh or christian in the way they worship. The results of a poll of the minorities of our two countries, Indian muslims included, would indeed be very enlightening in this respect.

 

[Developereo]

I am not saying India is not trying to do the right thing by its Muslim population. At least the Congress party is trying to live up to Gandhi's ideals and doing the right things. But the fact remains that there is a lot of historical baggage that needs to be overcome before Muslims can be free of discrimination.

Unfortunately, given the global trend of rising extremism among all religions, things may get much worse before they get better.

 

[KS]

India's Hindus and Muslims: After the slaughter, what hope? | The Economist

Hindu victims of “terrorism”, however, are to get twice the compensation of 100,000 rupees—about $2,000—given to the mostly Muslim victims of “communal violence”.

In future tense as opposed to ,

He (Congress minister Sriprakash Jaiswal) said an amount of Rs 1.5 lakh was paid by the government to the next of kin of each person killed and Rs 5,000, Rs 15,000, Rs 25,000 and Rs 50,000 to those injured up to 10 30, 40 and 50 per cent respectively.

If there has been any hint of discrimination as alleged, then it would have been the Congress that is the first to make it a big issue.

The discussion is about discrimination against Muslims. Do try to focus.

Do I have to remind you that it was you who 'focussed' on the condition of Muslims vis-a-vis other minorities in your first post. So what I said too is relevant

Atleast remember what you post.

Once again, the article only contains two or three statemetns by him. The rest of the article has nothing to do with.

And the rest of the article just builds upon it with some numbers thrown here and there pretending as 'statistics'.

You are going to stick your head under the sand because TIME magazine interviewed a terrorist and didn't say where he was? This is standard procedure in journalism. Now you are really grasping at straws.

WoW, you just give a interview of a terrorist to satisfy you delusion and you call others sticking their heads under the sand.

Such Grand !