Indian Mujahid

[nitesh]

Vinod

By the way, this is not so much my proposal but that of Muslims of India, more and more see that the closer they are to the border of Pakistan, the safer they will be.

You know so much muse who the hell has came and given you this idea?

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod

you say my proposal is naive or devilish? - but why be so defensive? You say let them (Muslims of India) express their commonality with Hindus, but you do not like them expressing any commonality with with other Muslims in India or elsewhere do you? What do you fear? And do you not understand self-fulfilling prohescy?

By the way, this is not so much my proposal but that of Muslims of India, more and more see that the closer they are to the border of Pakistan, the safer they will be.

How clear is the plight of Muslim sof India when persons such as yourself who should and do know better, I will not believe you are a hateful facist, turn your back on experience of hatred so clearly evident in the BBC piece Jana presented.

I sincerely encourage you to reconsider such ideas and attitudes.

You know and we all know that the Muslims of India will never be real "indians" to the majority - keeping them in small minorities seperated from each other makes them an easier target of hateful bigots, you know that is so, but it seems you will need more time to see ideology cannot replace experience.

Tell me where did you find the "experience of hatred so clearly evident in the BBC piece"? The piece shows the genuine efforts on the part of India to integrate the large Muslim minority who were allowed to live in India even after a partition in the name of Islam.

You can't understand the pain it caused in the hearts of patriotic Indians. It is a great example of tolerance to allow the Muslims to continue living in India in such large numbers while Hindus and Sikhs were almost wiped out in your country. And then to start worrying about their integration at every level and have a Muslim president within 15 years of partition!

Of course, you can't see any of all that. You won't look at the treatment of Pakistan's own minorities while dishing out advice to India.

I will say, you have a lot to do within Pakistan if you want to be taken seriously by India. For now I can't see it as anything but hypocrisy.

The indian Muslims are Indians, first and foremost. Don't worry about them. You have enough on your plate to worry about Pakistanis themselves, both Muslims and non-Muslims.

And weren't you planning to take advantage of the supposed plight of Indian Muslims in the other thread! Still want to sound sincere about your concern? really!!!

 

[muse]

It is clear to me that you have misunderstood -- that large numbers of people reject communalism and want nothing better than to see all "Indians" living in dignity has not been in contention.

By your own admission there are many programs to help Muslims in India to achieve, and of course these would not be needed were it not for the fact that they face discrimination of a horrific scale.

Earlier I had tried to bring this to your attention, based on my conversations with Muslims of India - if I could express to you the bitterness, shame and anger at having to be the subject of such I am assured your thinking would be different - one person was a province or state I did not even know, some new state - he relayed to me the role of the police in setting up particular neigborhoods to be targetted by hindu religio/political bigots and the community's response - another pointed out that the Muslim in India has not lost spirit or hope -- indeed, I refer you to Mushirul Hassan's passage about becoming invisible - an indian in India needing to become invisible -- please; do not react as if a club is being used to beat on you, it is not -- not everybody is your enemy, but please also do not become a osterich.

As a member of a majority poulation, your persepective is different and for you correct, but if you really mean to see a India of dignity, you may wish to focus your considerable moral energy at those indians who would vicimize other Indians.

 

[Vinod2070]

By your own admission there are many programs to help Muslims in India to achieve, and of course these would not be needed were it not for the fact that they face discrimination of a horrific scale.

Not necessarily. It is because they are much more backward socially due to historical reasons. The already small middle class depleted considerably during the partition.

India should and will have every Indian living in dignity. Can you say the same about Pakistan where minorities will always be second class citizens. After all it is an "Islamic" state, much like every Muslim majority country on the face of the earth.

Hardly the right credentials to advise on minority treatment. Won't you say!

 

[Zaheerkhan]

Indian mujahiddin is really something that the ISI wants the Indians to believe!! ... Otherwise I dont see any the Indian Muslim doing it. Sure ,any Muslims are poor in India, they live alongside equally poor Hindus and Christians....We Indian muslims have always been good Indians and will continue to be so..... we are as much as a Indian Hindu or an Indian Christian/!!

 

[su-47]

oh, not another thread about the plight of indian muslims.

look, this is something that has discussed to death in this forums, but here goes:

Indian Muslims are not under any kind of plight or severe discrimination as many pakistanis point out. By and large, they coexist peacefully with the Hindus, and enjoy equal status. sure, some are victims discrimination by paranoid or fanatical hindus, but this is a small minority. and i know, the issue of the Gujarat riots will be there till the earth turns to dust, but you have to understand that this was just a one off incident that happened in one state due to some corrupt fanatics.

There are groups like SIMI, LeT, Shivsena etc who to do their best to make hindus and muslims hate each other and start communal wars, but the fact that they havent succeeded over so many decades itself shows how strong Indian unity is.

Just a piece of advice to my Pakistani brothers. Dont worry too much about Indian muslims. if they are happy living in india, then you dont need to bother about it.

As about the reason muslims live in poverty, its not just them but a lot of indians live in poverty. india is not a rich country and has the world's largest number of poor. if u look at rich and famous indians, you'll find that many of them are muslims.

 

[su-47]

oh, not another thread about the plight of indian muslims.

look, this is something that has discussed to death in this forums, but here goes:

Indian Muslims are not under any kind of plight or severe discrimination as many pakistanis point out. By and large, they coexist peacefully with the Hindus, and enjoy equal status. sure, some are victims discrimination by paranoid or fanatical hindus, but this is a small minority. and i know, the issue of the Gujarat riots will be there till the earth turns to dust, but you have to understand that this was just a one off incident that happened in one state due to some corrupt fanatics.

There are groups like SIMI, LeT, Shivsena etc who to do their best to make hindus and muslims hate each other and start communal wars, but the fact that they havent succeeded over so many decades itself shows how strong Indian unity is.

Just a piece of advice to my Pakistani brothers. Dont worry too much about Indian muslims. if they are happy living in india, then you dont need to bother about it.

As about the reason muslims live in poverty, its not just them but a lot of indians live in poverty. india is not a rich country and has the world's largest number of poor. if u look at rich and famous indians, you'll find that many of them are muslims.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

The closer they are to Pakistan the safer they will be. they can express both their Hindustaniness and their Muslim faith and ethic. They shall not cease to be Hindustani, and they shall be safe, in fact the community of Muslims in all subcontinent will be safer as will the non-Muslims.

The Hindustani Muslim may some day form majorities or significant minorities in the states that border Pakistan to one day ensure no power or powers can negatively effect the peace they and Pakistan can build in the area.

I do not see down sides i this proposal, do you? Jewry did this successfully and over more than 100 years, why not learn from this endeavour and implement a more successful model?

Dear Honorable muse
sir' may i if you so may kindly ask you with respect that sir who gave you the Honorable right to suggest these dangerous & thought provoking suggestions on behalf of the Indian Muslims sir ? actually you see Islam and Pakistani nationalism are poles apart so please kindly try to solve the problems @ your end rather worrying about the conditions of the Indian Muslims
thank you hope you have a nice day
yours truly
miraj borgza

 

[Flintlock]

Muse, yet again you choose to express your "disappointment" at my reply and refuse to counter my arguments.

Do I have any hope of getting a decent reply out of you?'

Could atleast provide a coherent argument in favour of this, rather than just keep repeating lines about freedom of movement?

 

[Flintlock]

I am shocked that you think in these terms. The freedom of movement and the freedom of association are the freedoms the constitution of India gaurantees -- once again, I am not suggesting that the Muslims of Hindustan become Pakistani or Pakistan assist them to free themselves, I am suggesting that the Muslims of Hindustan would be safer if they over time settle in the states that border Pakistan.

There are certain things that are bound to happen, whether you want them to, or not.
Freedom of movement is fine, but transplanting diverse populations and resettling them cannot be described as "freedom of movement". It is unnatural and forced.

Such a proposal has proved to provide safety to jews of Israel and I do not see you object to that movement, yet you would find the expression of freedom of movement and association of Muslims of India objectionable??

I don't see what the comparison is between the jews of Israel and Indian muslims. Indian muslims do not consider themselves a single tribe without a homeland. This is why they chose to remain in their home villages and towns rather than migrate to Pakistan.
Again, you are making the mistake of clubbing all Indian muslims together, which is a fallacy in itself.

Yes, I support Israel, but not for the reasons or in the way that you think I do. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and a very useful partner for India.
That doesn't mean that I am blind to the suffering of Palestinians, nor does it mean that I consider Palestinians merely innocent victims.

However, if you had asked me in 1945 if I thought Israel was a good idea, I would have said no, because I would have foreseen the terrible human toll that this move would have taken.

Again, freedom of movement is fine, but what you are suggesting is not freedom of movement, but a forced migration which would have many undesirable consequences.

I must say I find the attitude you guys are expressing most troubling, today you would restrict the freedom f movement and association of Muslim sof Hindustan, what will you do tomorrow? Indeed, it is exactly such attitudes that may incite others to seek their freedom in more violent means. I urge you to reconsider.

What freedom are you talking about? Indian muslims are free to settle anywhere they like, but when all Indian muslims leave their hometowns and move west (which is btw a rather frivolous and unlikely scenario, I had forgotten to add) it destabilizes the country and threatens the existence of India.
You yourself compare this with the zionist movement, yet fail to compare the results of that movement with this one.

 

[QuickSilver]

They can't live who can't die​

If the "Indian Mujahid" is not a myth of RAW, then it is the only way for Indian Muslims to live in India!!!
Muslims have never been let to live by the non-Muslims without a high 'price' throughout the history - thus those Muslims who can't pay the 'price' they must quit the planet!!! Second Pakistan is the only resort for Indian Muslims!!!

Muslims paid high price through out history!! err did i miss something?? I thought muslims were the rulers for a very long time in India!! surely they are not 'discriminated' if they are the rulers!!

pakistan is the only option for Indian muslims??? Mr. Salim, do u agree that pakistan is ur only option??

Before you post ideas like these, please be a little rational!

 

[QuickSilver]

and for all those people who do not want to be a part of india, they can as well emigrate to other countries. Maybe pakistan can give passports to any muslim from india who wishes to go there. we do not want any person from any religion who does not consider himself an indian!!

 

[Keysersoze]

and for all those people who do not want to be a part of india, they can as well emigrate to other countries. Maybe pakistan can give passports to any muslim from india who wishes to go there. we do not want any person from any religion who does not consider himself an indian!!

Well most wanna keep their land and possessions. So why don't you let them go if they don't wanna be part of India? After all if they don't wanna be part of your perfect society then maybe they should be let go?

Or do you just value the land and not the people in it?

 

[QuickSilver]

Well most wanna keep their land and possessions. So why don't you let them go if they don't wanna be part of India? After all if they don't wanna be part of your perfect society then maybe they should be let go?

Or do you just value the land and not the people in it?

they can sell their lands, take the money and leave, jus because they bought the lant it does not separate the land from being India. very good point you have said.. maybe if i buy a house in US and if I want to separate, I take the land along with me is it??

In that case the wealthiest people will be owning their own countries!!

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ How many Indian Muslims have left for Pakistan in the last 5 decades?

Is the number even in 2 digits? Single digits?

I will tell you. Exactly ZERO.

Facts don't lie. Motivated people do.