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Indian MoD awards $106 million contract for 1,86,138 bulletproof jackets for the Indian Army to Smpp

No, it does to pretty much everyone there is and has ever been!!How else you would judge a person if not by his opinions??!!

What ad hominem??I just called you out on your rather preposterous claim that some strips of fabrics can actually affect the weight of anything by any significant margin!!What else did you expect to get for making such outlandish claims??!!

Why would you need to judge a person when you only have to refute his claims unless of course you were preemptively looking to make an ad hominem statement.
Maybe you lot are so used to logical fallacies that you don't even know you are making them.

Also, when did I say only the pals exclusively resulted in the weight gain?
Never said it, never implied it, but then again, your whole rhetoric stands on assuming that one thing which you could have just as easily asked me to confirm but instead you'd rather go on a tirade.

It still proves nothing!!How do we know both the systems had the same inserts??

Well, the hap panels were in display with the bpjs in the same expo so yeah common sense.
Why would they place a molle type bpj only to affix it with a lesser hap.
But the most important part, the protection level stated on both of the bpjs is the same, i.e. NIJ Level-IIISP. Why do you think that is?
But sure, just for the sake of your ego let go of your common sense.

And in any case, the one with the molle webbing attached was a lot bulkier and it did come with more provisions for armor inserts especially on the neck and shoulder and side torso regions where as the lighter one lacked them!!and this is more than likely what contributed to the increased weight of the said body armor

This is the only thing I agree with in your whole rant
Also, I never implied otherwise and the other bpj does have side inserts and a crotch guard.

and definitely certainly not the addition of a few strips of cloths!!But don't listen to me, don't listen to reason, just keep saying la-la-la and believing in what you must and making a total *** of yourself.

Never said that they did.
You are having problems understanding what molle actually is, I'll give you a mainstream definition of what molle is below.

Nope,rather some honest and factual observations!!

Nothing about your statement was factual.
In fact it was unwarranted and full to the brim with opinions.
Unless of course you have some scientific model to prove how we Indians are idiots.
Or more to the point if you have a CAG report of sorts that says the current bpjs that were selected are absolute $hit and that our armymen are idiots to not choose a more modular bpj coz some randon person on the internet feels so.

The word "factual" would imply you have proof and facts to support your claim.
Proof boy.
And I don't see any.

And when did I made any such assertions??Do you even think before you write a comment??!!

You have a bad memory it seems.
Was it me who generalised Indians as idiots, and in consequence our soldiers.


Why not??They are at the pinnacle of technological edge and have been since, I don't know...........FOREVER may be!!

I already explained to you why not, but unsurprisingly enough you chose to segregate that part of my comment.
They might be technologically superior but that doesn't mean we absolutely need to have every single american doodad to operate in our environment.

One size doesn't fit all.

Hence it is unfair and incorrect to compare our jawaans who operate on higher altitudes on a difficult almost continuously mountainous terrain, dotted with dense jungles, to the NATO forces that operate on flat plains and make heavy use of AFVs and can afford to a degree collateral damage as they are not their own people.

Yeah and meanwhile even the Pakistanis and Chinese have now begun to adopt integrated vests with molle webbing!!Guess they are fools as well to adopt the western techniques??Or may be it's the people like you who are making a total *** of yourselves trying to defend which is logically indefensible!!No matter which way you look at it from, molle type webbings are a lot better than older fixed pouches as the former provides a lot more flexibility and customization options as they let one configure your loadout as per the type of mission needs one to do, without adding any significant amount of weight.No wonder most armies across the globe are making the transition towards pals webbings,

Well your definition of the term itself is wrong so the above rhetoric doesn't apply.

but of course, you just cling on to your stupid beliefs.Just do not conceive such outlandish claims to justify them, thank you.

Pray tell what do you assume my beliefs are?
Clearly you know something.

Everyone are including the greatest of the minds are idiots to a varying degree and sorry to say this but your so called 'professional warfighters' ain't exactly the brightest of the lamps on the posts, so to speak!!Their job demands them to be the best trained, not the best educated nor the wittiest!!Do keep in mind that these folks are taught (more like brainwashed, catch them young remember?) to obey commands without questions.Here, obedience and loyalty are considered to be absolute necessity but wit and freethinking, not so much.

Says who you?
Some random person on the internet.

Are unfounded accusations the best you can do?
You have a lot of opinions, maybe one of these days actually prove one of them.

Also, pray tell what you mean by educated?
Coz you are humiliating yourself, better check what courses they offer at the IMA, and yes our officers are required to be both educated and trained.

But more importantly lets see you join the army since you clearly know more than experienced officers.

To the very same bunch of...........well, folks, who deliberately picked an inferior tank over a homegrown one which was superior in almost every category??!!Please pardon me if I do not share your optimism or faith.

Two separate issues.
Yes it was a blunder to not induct Arjuns in large numbers but unless you can prove that its the same for bpjs, your conjectures are just that.

Do they now??Well, I certainly hope as such.
They know more than you'll ever know.

And your point being??You think I did not know that already??
Nope.

Oh gimme a break, will ya??Conflating separate issues my black ***!!Weren't you just lecturing me on the above sentence how it's a rather vague term which is often used interchangeably??So what happened??Why are you backtracking on your own claims now??I'll tell you why -because you know how royally you fucked up and as of now,

Now, since you have been grasping at straws.

MOLLE and PALS: What’s the Difference?
Understand the Correct Terminology Behind Standard Webbing Used on Backpacks and Other Gear
Written by Patrick McCarthy on July 7, 2016


Survival gear is often a bit of a word salad filled with acronyms and slang. So, we like to take every opportunity we can to demystify the terminology, and clear up any misconceptions that may exist. Learning about survival skills and gear should be accessible to anyone, rather than some exclusive club where you’re left out if you’re unfamiliar with the lingo.



Two terms we hear used frequently in the survival and prepping world are MOLLE and PALS. Usually, you’ll hear that a backpack has “PALS webbing” or that a pouch is “MOLLE compatible”. Confusingly, sometimes you’ll hear just the opposite—”MOLLE” and “PALS” are often used interchangeably.

So, what the heck is the difference between “MOLLE webbing” and “PALS webbing”? Are they really the same thing with two different names? Not necessarily, but read on to understand where the confusion arises.


A soldier wearing U.S. Army-issue MOLLE gear, including a rucksack. Photo: U.S. Army / Wikipedia

mag_cover42.jpg

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Get the Mag
First, let’s define these terms. MOLLE (pronounced like the name Molly) is an acronym for Modular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment. It is a proprietary form of military gear designed by Natick Labs, produced under contract by various manufacturers, and used by the U.S. Military and other NATO forces. MOLLE gear is typically based around a Tactical Assault Panel (or TAP), which is a load-carrying chest rig or vest.

Remember the M in MOLLE stands for modular, and you’ll understand what it is: a system of modular gear components (vests, backpacks, pouches, etc.) that attach to each other.


This backpack illustration features PALS webbing highlighted in red.

Now, this is important: the MOLLE system includes PALS webbing. PALS stands for Pouch Attachment Ladder System, and it’s the horizontal grid of repeating fabric webbing strips often found on backpacks and bags. According to the PALS standard, these strips are spaced 1 inch apart, and sewn to the backing at 1.5-inch intervals.



So, in a nutshell, PALS is a type of webbing, and MOLLE is a type of modular gear that attaches via this webbing. Given this info, it’s technically incorrect to say gear has MOLLE webbing, because it would actually have PALS webbing and would thus be MOLLE-compatible. There’s no such thing as “MOLLE webbing”, but most people will know what you mean if you say this—the type of webbing found on MOLLE gear.

It’s likely that MOLLE and PALS terms will continue to be used interchangeably, but now you know that there’s a difference between the two

https://www.offgridweb.com/preparation/molle-and-pals-whats-the-difference/

A common mistake that people make is referring to the 1” webbing sewn onto vests, plate carriers, full armor carriers and belts as MOLLE webbing. In fact, this layout is actually called PALS which stands Pocket Attachment Latter System. Over the years this system went from having a strip of plastic sewn in between 2 layers of 1” webbing with a snap closure to a single layer of webbing with small plastic tuck tabs to keep the pouches and pockets on. The future of this attachment system will be very lightweight rubberized products like Hypolon laser cut into single pieces, all but eliminating 1” nylon webbing. All major manufactures will need to eventually switch to this as a permanent attachment solution or be left behind in the non-stop ever changing nylon landscape.

https://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/blog/post/what-does-molle-mean/


you are merely trying to save face by hiding behind your semantics and dribbling your fancy wording but it ain't fooling no one kiddo.

Actually you are backtracking now coz you finally realized that I do know wtf I'm talking about.

And this is why semantics is so important, so that presumptuous people like you don't get to assume whatever in the f**k they want.

You know what your problem is?
You came into this conversation with your preconceived notions of it being a zero sum game you regurgitated confirmation bias, called people idiots, and kept throwing around expletives left and right while I actually tried to explain and am trying to be as accommodating as possible.

Maybe its too much to hold people to a higher standard on internet forums and expect them to actually know the basic meanings of words and phrases or know the specific meanings about things they pretend to espouse that they are knowledgeable in.
After all, these people always get really salty when they don't understand something and shamelessly try to blame their ignorance on sophistry when they are called out on their $hit.

Besides, I've always referred to it as either 'Molle webbing' or 'strips of fabric stitched onto the outer cover' , which should have made it aptly clear to anyone possessing even one tenth of a brain, as to what I intended to mean by that term!!But you knew that already, didn't you??

It doesn't matter what you think a definition of something is or what you have always done.
You came into the debate assuming something I said was false, and have wasted enough bandwidth trying to explain what it was. So the onus was on you to specify what your qualm was or ask me what I meant, and not on me to telepathically understand what condescending thought you had.

So I don't care if you think something is right or no.
What's correct is correct.


Yet there were no additional pouches attached to that vest, so why do you think it was heavier even at the absence of those pouches??And please don't repeat your crap theory of those pals ladders accounting for the increased weight.

You already explained it.
More armour inserts and its based around a tap.

But lets go into the details.
The molle bpj has 2 shoulder pads and a neck insert while the non molle bpj doesn't and lets say that the hap inserts on the above weigh just as much as the ones used on the front and back of the bpj(they technically wouldn't but lets give you the benefit of the doubt) and if you are able to attach those to the non molle bpj it still wouldn't weigh as much, ie 18kgs.

Irrelevant.

It is very much relevant.
Officers don't usually patrol as much as your general grunt of a soldier hence they can afford to wear bulkier and heavier bpjs; it depends on the situation.



Oh I don't know, may be because I've a brain (certainly not the most functional one, in fact one of the least fuctional one at that but still there is one inside my cranium, which doesn't seem to be in your case), may be because I like to look at things more objectively and dispassionately, may be because I tend to judge everything with logic and reason or may be, just may be, what you said was nothing more than a figment of your imagination, emanating from your apparent lack of basic comprehension skills??!!Who knows??

Someone think too highly of himself.
Maybe, join the Indian army then you get to say how objective and logical you are and how idiotic our army brass is.

You are just some random person on the internet why should anyone believe your opinions when we can believe people who have actually fought and risked their lives?

I gave you facts and you gave me opinions; no links, no proof, nothing, its there for everyone to see who is imagining things and who actually has actual real info at hand.


Yes but that doesn't mean it's those pals ladders (or molle webbings, take your pick) which are making it heavier.Just use your brain!!How can a few strips of fabrics (no matter how sturdy or 'heavy duty' they may be) jack up the overall weight by any significant margin??It just doesn't make any sense, unless those strips are made out of some super heavy material (hence my Osmium reference), but why would anyone do that??

I never said it was just the pals, you just assumed I said so.
 
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You know what pal??I'm done trying to put some sense into you.You win, believe what you have to, it's a democracy after all, you do have the right to live in a perpetual moronic state, don't let me spoil your day.
Adios.
 
Why would you need to judge a person when you only have to refute his claims unless of course you were preemptively looking to make an ad hominem statement.
Maybe you lot are so used to logical fallacies that you don't even know you are making them.

Also, when did I say only the pals exclusively resulted in the weight gain?
Never said it, never implied it, but then again, your whole rhetoric stands on assuming that one thing which you could have just as easily asked me to confirm but instead you'd rather go on a tirade.



Well, the hap panels were in display with the bpjs in the same expo so yeah common sense.
Why would they place a molle type bpj only to affix it with a lesser hap.
But the most important part, the protection level stated on both of the bpjs is the same, i.e. NIJ Level-IIISP. Why do you think that is?
But sure, just for the sake of your ego let go of your common sense.



This is the only thing I agree with in your whole rant
Also, I never implied otherwise and the other bpj does have side inserts and a crotch guard.



Never said that they did.
You are having problems understanding what molle actually is, I'll give you a mainstream definition of what molle is below.



Nothing about your statement was factual.
In fact it was unwarranted and full to the brim with opinions.
Unless of course you have some scientific model to prove how we Indians are idiots.
Or more to the point if you have a CAG report of sorts that says the current bpjs that were selected are absolute $hit and that our armymen are idiots to not choose a more modular bpj coz some randon person on the internet feels so.

The word "factual" would imply you have proof and facts to support your claim.
Proof boy.
And I don't see any.



You have a bad memory it seems.
Was it me who generalised Indians as idiots, and in consequence our soldiers.




I already explained to you why not, but unsurprisingly enough you chose to segregate that part of my comment.
They might be technologically superior but that doesn't mean we absolutely need to have every single american doodad to operate in our environment.

One size doesn't fit all.

Hence it is unfair and incorrect to compare our jawaans who operate on higher altitudes on a difficult almost continuously mountainous terrain, dotted with dense jungles, to the NATO forces that operate on flat plains and make heavy use of AFVs and can afford to a degree collateral damage as they are not their own people.



Well your definition of the term itself is wrong so the above rhetoric doesn't apply.



Pray tell what do you assume my beliefs are?
Clearly you know something.



Says who you?
Some random person on the internet.

Are unfounded accusations the best you can do?
You have a lot of opinions, maybe one of these days actually prove one of them.

Also, pray tell what you mean by educated?
Coz you are humiliating yourself, better check what courses they offer at the IMA, and yes our officers are required to be both educated and trained.

But more importantly lets see you join the army since you clearly know more than experienced officers.



Why would you need to judge a person when you only have to refute his claims unless of course you were preemptively looking to make an ad hominem statement.
Maybe you lot are so used to logical fallacies that you don't even know you are making them.

Also, when did I say only the pals exclusively resulted in the weight gain?
Never said it, never implied it, but then again, your whole rhetoric stands on assuming that one thing which you could have just as easily asked me to confirm but instead you'd rather go on a tirade.



Well, the hap panels were in display with the bpjs in the same expo so yeah common sense.
Why would they place a molle type bpj only to affix it with a lesser hap.
But the most important part, the protection level stated on both of the bpjs is the same, i.e. NIJ Level-IIISP. Why do you think that is?
But sure, just for the sake of your ego let go of your common sense.



This is the only thing I agree with in your whole rant
Also, I never implied otherwise and the other bpj does have side inserts and a crotch guard.



Never said that they did.
You are having problems understanding what molle actually is, I'll give you a mainstream definition of what molle is below.



Nothing about your statement was factual.
In fact it was unwarranted and full to the brim with opinions.
Unless of course you have some scientific model to prove how we Indians are idiots.
Or more to the point if you have a CAG report of sorts that says the current bpjs that were selected are absolute $hit and that our armymen are idiots to not choose a more modular bpj coz some randon person on the internet feels so.

The word "factual" would imply you have proof and facts to support your claim.
Proof boy.
And I don't see any.



You have a bad memory it seems.
Was it me who generalised Indians as idiots, and in consequence our soldiers.




I already explained to you why not, but unsurprisingly enough you chose to segregate that part of my comment.
They might be technologically superior but that doesn't mean we absolutely need to have every single american doodad to operate in our environment.

One size doesn't fit all.

Hence it is unfair and incorrect to compare our jawaans who operate on higher altitudes on a difficult almost continuously mountainous terrain, dotted with dense jungles, to the NATO forces that operate on flat plains and make heavy use of AFVs and can afford to a degree collateral damage as they are not their own people.
Also, its absolutely necessary for the Americans to use the modular system as they are doing more and different type of missions, we aren't.



Well your definition of the term itself is wrong so the above rhetoric doesn't apply.



Pray tell what do you assume my beliefs are?
Clearly you know something.



Says who you?
Some random person on the internet.

Are unfounded accusations the best you can do?
You have a lot of opinions, maybe one of these days actually prove one of them.

Also, pray tell what you mean by educated?
Coz you are humiliating yourself, better check what courses they offer at the IMA, and yes our officers are required to be both educated and trained.

But more importantly lets see you join the army since you clearly know more than experienced officers.



Two separate issues.
Yes it was a blunder to not induct Arjuns in large numbers but unless you can prove that its the same for bpjs, your conjectures are just that.


They know more than you'll ever know.


Nope.



Now, since you have been grasping at straws.

MOLLE and PALS: What’s the Difference?
Understand the Correct Terminology Behind Standard Webbing Used on Backpacks and Other Gear
Written by Patrick McCarthy on July 7, 2016


Survival gear is often a bit of a word salad filled with acronyms and slang. So, we like to take every opportunity we can to demystify the terminology, and clear up any misconceptions that may exist. Learning about survival skills and gear should be accessible to anyone, rather than some exclusive club where you’re left out if you’re unfamiliar with the lingo.



Two terms we hear used frequently in the survival and prepping world are MOLLE and PALS. Usually, you’ll hear that a backpack has “PALS webbing” or that a pouch is “MOLLE compatible”. Confusingly, sometimes you’ll hear just the opposite—”MOLLE” and “PALS” are often used interchangeably.

So, what the heck is the difference between “MOLLE webbing” and “PALS webbing”? Are they really the same thing with two different names? Not necessarily, but read on to understand where the confusion arises.


A soldier wearing U.S. Army-issue MOLLE gear, including a rucksack. Photo: U.S. Army / Wikipedia

mag_cover42.jpg

Subscribe Today and Save!
Get the Mag
First, let’s define these terms. MOLLE (pronounced like the name Molly) is an acronym for Modular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment. It is a proprietary form of military gear designed by Natick Labs, produced under contract by various manufacturers, and used by the U.S. Military and other NATO forces. MOLLE gear is typically based around a Tactical Assault Panel (or TAP), which is a load-carrying chest rig or vest.

Remember the M in MOLLE stands for modular, and you’ll understand what it is: a system of modular gear components (vests, backpacks, pouches, etc.) that attach to each other.


This backpack illustration features PALS webbing highlighted in red.

Now, this is important: the MOLLE system includes PALS webbing. PALS stands for Pouch Attachment Ladder System, and it’s the horizontal grid of repeating fabric webbing strips often found on backpacks and bags. According to the PALS standard, these strips are spaced 1 inch apart, and sewn to the backing at 1.5-inch intervals.



So, in a nutshell, PALS is a type of webbing, and MOLLE is a type of modular gear that attaches via this webbing. Given this info, it’s technically incorrect to say gear has MOLLE webbing, because it would actually have PALS webbing and would thus be MOLLE-compatible. There’s no such thing as “MOLLE webbing”, but most people will know what you mean if you say this—the type of webbing found on MOLLE gear.

It’s likely that MOLLE and PALS terms will continue to be used interchangeably, but now you know that there’s a difference between the two

https://www.offgridweb.com/preparation/molle-and-pals-whats-the-difference/

A common mistake that people make is referring to the 1” webbing sewn onto vests, plate carriers, full armor carriers and belts as MOLLE webbing. In fact, this layout is actually called PALS which stands Pocket Attachment Latter System. Over the years this system went from having a strip of plastic sewn in between 2 layers of 1” webbing with a snap closure to a single layer of webbing with small plastic tuck tabs to keep the pouches and pockets on. The future of this attachment system will be very lightweight rubberized products like Hypolon laser cut into single pieces, all but eliminating 1” nylon webbing. All major manufactures will need to eventually switch to this as a permanent attachment solution or be left behind in the non-stop ever changing nylon landscape.

https://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/blog/post/what-does-molle-mean/




Actually you are backtracking now coz you finally realized that I do know wtf I'm talking about.

And this is why semantics is so important, so that presumptuous people like you don't get to assume whatever in the f**k they want.

You know what your problem is?
You came into this conversation with your preconceived notions of it being a zero sum game you regurgitated confirmation bias, called people idiots, and kept throwing around expletives left and right while I actually tried to explain and am trying to be as accommodating as possible.

Maybe its too much to hold people to a higher standard on internet forums and expect them to actually know the basic meanings of words and phrases or know the specific meanings about things they pretend to espouse that they are knowledgeable in.
After all, these people always get really salty when they don't understand something and shamelessly try to blame their ignorance on sophistry when they are called out on their $hit.



It doesn't matter what you think a definition of something is or what you have always done.
You came into the debate assuming something I said was false, and have wasted enough bandwidth trying to explain what it was. So the onus was on you to specify what your qualm was or ask me what I meant, and not on me to telepathically understand what condescending thought you had.

So I don't care if you think something is right or no.
What's correct is correct.




You already explained it.
More armour inserts and its based around a tap.

But lets go into the details.
The molle bpj has 2 shoulder pads and a neck insert while the non molle bpj doesn't and lets say that the hap inserts on the above weigh just as much as the ones used on the front and back of the bpj(they technically wouldn't but lets give you the benefit of the doubt) and if you are able to attach those to the non molle bpj it still wouldn't weigh as much, ie 18kgs.



It is very much relevant.
Officers don't usually patrol as much as your general grunt of a soldier hence they can afford to wear bulkier and heavier bpjs; it depends on the situation.





Someone think too highly of himself.
Maybe, join the Indian army then you get to say how objective and logical you are and how idiotic our army brass is.

You are just some random person on the internet why should anyone believe your opinions when we can believe people who have actually fought and risked their lives?

I gave you facts and you gave me opinions; no links, no proof, nothing, its there for everyone to see who is imagining things and who actually has actual real info at hand.




I never said it was just the pals, you just assumed I said so.
The gyu u are arguing with is not worth of ur time and attention. Let him marinate in his own muck
 

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