Indian Missiles - News, Developments, Tests, and Discussions

[Lethalforce]

Wow..i would love to see this happening. However i am a little sceptical and please help me here...Brahmos is a JV which obviously means we are parterning with them. Isnt there any thing binding that we cannot just dump them and go ahead with our own missile using the same technology?? will russia or let me put it this way..can Russia stop us??? Also i read it in some other forum a very valuable post by "Screamin Scull"

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: EXCLUSIVE: BrahMos Wants To Shake Russia Off

EXCLUSIVE: BrahMos Wants To Shake Russia Off
The CEO of Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile firm BrahMos Aerospace has recommended to the government that he be appointed the head of a new cell under the Secretary-Defence Production, that will focus, among other things, on making the BrahMos a fully Indian missile. LiveFist has learnt that Dr A Sivathanu Pillai, the highly respected CEO of BrahMos has officially proposed to the government that he be appointed the head of a "ManTech (Manufacturing Technology) Cell", and report exclusively to the Secretary-Defence Production. Sources indicate that the proposal is a much-needed first step towards Pillai's real dream of making the BrahMos fully indigenous. India only makes the inertial navigation guidance system and fire control system of the BrahMos, while Russia continues to contribute the all-important engine, booster and seeker.

In February last year, Pillai had told me, "As long as we do not control the critical technologies, i.e. engine and seeker, Russia will call all the shots in BrahMos, including cost which is critical to export competence." It was a moment of uncanny candour for a man who has hailed the Indo-Russian model as the last word in efficiency and prudence. But Pillai's vision of a full-Indian BrahMos is not some nebulous, idealistic vision he's forcing down the government's throat. The fact is, the way things stand with Russia, Pillai seriously believes the BrahMos cannot be brought up to its full potential. For the BrahMos to be a real success, in every possible way, Pillai believes it has no choice but to be a fully Indian missile, and slowly chip away at Russia's involvement and contribution.

In the proposal sent to the Defence Ministry, Pillai writes, "India has produced the world class supersonic cruise missile by entering into a Joint Venture with Russia. The real technologies that are available to India for production of missiles are not available anywhere in the world. It is time that we indigenised these technologies and be capable of bulk production. Formulation of policy statement on ManTech along with creation of Project Management as part of BrahMos Joint Venture under Secretary of Defence Production will enable India to be self-reliant in the field of supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles of various ranges. This will also ensure availability of assured production agency with alternatives in every field."

He goes on to add, "To fulfill the demand of own defence forces as also to ensure complete indigenization, there is a requirement of manufacturing technologies that need to be bulk produced and will provide required funding to capable and willing Indian industries for establishment of infrastructure."

Pillai says that as the ManTech chief, he will prepare an annual five-year plan for indigenization resulting in bulk production, and ensure coordination between the ManTech programme and industrial preparedness and similar manufacturing programmes of the Department of Defence, other departments and agencies and the private sector.

For starters, Pillai proposes to have his company prepare a technical report describing precisely what can be indigenized and in how much time.

PS. Dr Pillai is also, of course, in the running to be the next Chief of the DRDO. Let's see how it turns out.

 

[Lethalforce]

That was known from the beginning. Brahmos is only meant for INdia...;-)

yes but when it is with Russian collaboration there range should not exceed 290km or it is a viloation. see above post for link.

 

[deckingraj]

Seriously? "Capacity" to build spare parts? Are you mental? Where have you been living all these years? In a cave?

Hmmm....i would not reply to the bold part but for sure there was no need for you to stoop to such a low level. Believe me i can match u in that(may be better you) but then know someone has to act like civilized..and u r talking about me living in a cave...

Do you think India is 'that' backward technologically? That when we have missiles which can be launched from any platform, overland, air and undersea? When we can send probes/satellites to Moon? When we have missiles with ranges in excess of 3500Kms and now check out Agni-V? When we developed our own cryogenic technology inspite of sanctions? When we have MIRV and re-entry technology? When BrahMos pinpoint accuracy (homing technology) is developed solely by the Indian scientists?

No Not at all....But i don't have much knowledge about what we can and what we cannot...so thought it would be better to ask from a fellow member who seems to have lot of knowledge. I guess i was wrong because surely he has knowledge but seems little less manners.. also that was a question i was not challenging or stating that india cannot make it...

A little more than a mechanic's job means a little brainpower is needed to "redesign" "rewire" and "re-solder" components to achieve what is needed.

Thanks for the clarification...Though not sure if it is so easy why the heck we are not going for longer range?? Anyways doesn't make a difference if we can we will sooner or later...

Now really, whats with you? A pseudo-intellectual supporting naxalite ideology and skeptical about India's technological prowess?

Off topic but let me clarify....

Wrong with me????....wait a minute can you please point any single post of mine where i supported the Naxalite arms revolution or for that matter even their ideology.. If you read them in context all i said is that we ignored them for decades and its a political problem that cannot be solved by force...

Skeptical about india's technological prowess...Not at all...i was/am skeptical can India ignore russia and have a similar missile like brahmos with longer range...where does i challenge india's technology prowess...About parts i just asked if we can make it or not...where do u see sceptism

P.S - Please dont bother to reply if you cannot do it without making personal attacks...I hope u can...

Regards

 

[Guest]

Do we have the capacity to build the spare parts that is described above?? Also is increasing the limit of a missile just a little more than a mechanical job???

to gain longer range:

1) a fuel saving turbofan engine is needed unless you want to make a CM with a BM's size.

2) unlike BMs, CMs fly at about 30-50 meters, so a precise 3D digital map is needed for it's navigation.

3)although INS can provide a rough navigation, a more precise navigation system, like GPS, would be better

4) to increase the accuracy further, an on-board optical/infrared target recognition system is preferable.

 

[gubbi]

Hmmm....i would not reply to the bold part but for sure there was no need for you to stoop to such a low level. Believe me i can match u in that(may be better you) but then know someone has to act like civilized..and u r talking about me living in a cave...

No Not at all....But i don't have much knowledge about what we can and what we cannot...so thought it would be better to ask from a fellow member who seems to have lot of knowledge. I guess i was wrong because surely he has knowledge but seems little less manners.. also that was a question i was not challenging or stating that india cannot make it...

Thanks for the clarification...Though not sure if it is so easy why the heck we are not going for longer range?? Anyways doesn't make a difference if we can we will sooner or later...

Off topic but let me clarify....

Wrong with me????....wait a minute can you please point any single post of mine where i supported the Naxalite arms revolution or for that matter even their ideology.. If you read them in context all i said is that we ignored them for decades and its a political problem that cannot be solved by force...

Skeptical about india's technological prowess...Not at all...i was/am skeptical can India ignore russia and have a similar missile like brahmos with longer range...where does i challenge india's technology prowess...About parts i just asked if we can make it or not...where do u see sceptism

P.S - Please dont bother to reply if you cannot do it without making personal attacks...I hope u can...

Regards

Oh Boy! I guess the message got lost in 'translation'. I wrongly assumed your previous posts as being highly skeptical of Indian technological development and an intellectual support for Naxalite ideology. Trust me, I have been around people who vehemently, passionately support the Naxalite aka CPI-M ideology! I was one of them back in India (I never supported the armed 'struggle', but was carried away by this class warfare struggle thing.) And I smelled that kind of support in your post. So I was wrong. Apologies mate! Lets stick to BrahMos here for now.
Like I said earlier, yes India can go solo with the BrahMos missile and increase the range if we end up buying the missile propulsion tech from the Russians or end up developing our own independently. You will be surprised to know what kind of technologies people are working on in India right now! And much of that is in the public domain. Rest assured, I will quote Rumsfeld the ex-US secdef, here - "as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." LOL. Applies to stuff going on in defense research labs in India.
As to spare parts, we make everything in our country, from small pins to very complicated engineering marvels like the advanced fighter planes and beautiful buildings!! So spare part acquisition is a no brainer.
And of course you may be better than me in using colorful language.
Apologies for misunderstanding your post mate.

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^
No worries mate ...all this happens...There is a saying "The same passions in man and woman nonetheless differ in tempo; hence man and woman do not cease misunderstanding one another"....so forget about it...


Coming back to brahmos...from your post it seems that only barrier we have is the missile propulsion tech from Russia or end up developing our own...i wish we go the later way and would love to see Brahmos with an extended range that can send shivers to our adversaries...do you have any insight into if we have to take that route how far are we from that...secondly we are in another JV with russians for Brahmos-II..so unless we kick them out(inclinations are there as per post by Lethaforce) we got to stick with 290KM

Rest i would not derail this thread anymore becuase of my lack of defence knowledge and will let you intellectuals carry on...

 

[Born In The USA]

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight


To add punch to IAF’s fleet of Sukhoi, Mig-29, Mirage-2000, Tejas.

Veteran fighter pilots lament the end of the dogfight, the evocative name for a twisty, sky-ripping, adrenaline-packed aerial duel, in which the winner gets behind his opponent and shoots him down with a burst of cannon fire.

Today, it is less about flying skill, cold nerve and highly-responsive aircraft; the modern-day dogfighting ace is an airborne video-game expert who uses radar to detect his foe at long ranges, and launch a beyond visual range (BVR) missile even before his victim realises that the engagement has begun.

Just days from now, a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter will take off from an Indian Air Force (IAF) base, an Astra missile fitted on its wing. This will be the first-ever flight of this indigenously developed BVR missile, which the IAF hopes will add punch to its fleet of Sukhoi-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighters.

The Astra, built by the Defence R&D Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad, will allow IAF pilots to hit enemy aircraft up to 44 km away, at altitudes up to 20,000 metres. Improving on that will be the Astra Mk II, with a longer range of 80 km.

The Astra incorporates many cutting-edge technologies. Here is how an Astra would take on an enemy fighter: an IAF fighter’s radar picks up the target; the pilot launches an Astra missile. A high-energy propellant quickly boosts the missile to several times the speed of sound. At ranges beyond 15 km, the Astra cannot “see” its target, so the IAF fighter guides the missile, relaying the target’s continually changing position over a secure radio link. Once it is 15 km from the target, the Astra’s onboard seeker picks up the target; after that the Astra homes in on its own.

At this point, the target would start turning and diving to throw off the missile. But the Astra manoeuvres better, and moves much faster, than even the most agile fighters. A radio proximity fuse measures the distance to the target. When the target is within 5 metres, the Astra’s radio proximity fuse detonates its warhead, sending a volley of shrapnel ripping through the enemy fighter.

Most of these technologies have already been proven. The propulsion system, the data link between the aircraft and the Astra, the radio proximity fuse, the onboard computer, the inertial navigation system and other key technologies were developed at the DRDO’s missile complex in Hyderabad.

The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one.

The forthcoming test with a Sukhoi-30MKI is called a “captive flight trial”; it will evaluate whether the Astra can withstand the physical stresses of supersonic flying and high-speed manoeuvring. Early in 2010, a “captive-II flight trial” will check whether the Astra’s avionics are properly matched with those of the Sukhoi-30MKI. The fighter should receive the missile’s signals; and the Astra should receive the aircraft’s commands.

“Matching an Indian missile with a Russian fighter’s avionics has turned out to be a complex task”, explains Mukesh Chand, one of the Astra’s key developers, “But the Astra will be much better integrated with the Indian Tejas LCA.”

Only in October 2010, after all the Astra’s systems are certified airworthy, will a live Astra be fired from a fighter. But the project scientists are confident; in a September 2008 test in Balasore, Orissa, a ground-launched Astra shot down an electronic target, validating many of the most complex technologies.

A drawback in the Astra remains its high weight; even a heavy fighter like the Sukhoi-30MKI cannot carry the missile on its wingtip stations. In comparison with the Astra’s estimated 150 kg, other BVR missiles like the Israeli Derby weigh around 100 kg only.

Nevertheless, the IAF believes the Astra will usefully supplement India’s inventory of BVR missiles. The Russian R-77 Adder, which arms India’s Russian aircraft fleet, faces worrying questions about its reliability. And the R530D missile, carried by the Mirage-2000, is nearing obsolescence.

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight

 

[Midgetman]

The Highest Nuclear Explosion done by humans on earth was in Russia in the event named Tsar Bomba ! Theoretically the explosion was 100 megatons and experimentally was 50 megatons....... but till now india has exploded only a 0.15 kiloton.........i dont doubt the India delivery system... but the question is that will India be able to make such kind of nuclear weapons that can explode at even 10 megatons..... This Question comes after the Indo-Us Civil nuclear deal.....! Keep deal in mind and the Us pressure if India ever thinks of making the bomb!

u do realize that the tzar bomba was never put into production, and most nuclear weapons these days go up to 1mt max... its not like the cold war anymore...

 

[Screaming Skull]

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight​

To add punch to IAF’s fleet of Sukhoi, Mig-29, Mirage-2000, Tejas.

Veteran fighter pilots lament the end of the dogfight, the evocative name for a twisty, sky-ripping, adrenaline-packed aerial duel, in which the winner gets behind his opponent and shoots him down with a burst of cannon fire.

Today, it is less about flying skill, cold nerve and highly-responsive aircraft; the modern-day dogfighting ace is an airborne video-game expert who uses radar to detect his foe at long ranges, and launch a beyond visual range (BVR) missile even before his victim realises that the engagement has begun.

Just days from now, a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter will take off from an Indian Air Force (IAF) base, an Astra missile fitted on its wing. This will be the first-ever flight of this indigenously developed BVR missile, which the IAF hopes will add punch to its fleet of Sukhoi-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighters.

The Astra, built by the Defence R&D Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad, will allow IAF pilots to hit enemy aircraft up to 44 km away, at altitudes up to 20,000 metres. Improving on that will be the Astra Mk II, with a longer range of 80 km.

The Astra incorporates many cutting-edge technologies. Here is how an Astra would take on an enemy fighter: an IAF fighter’s radar picks up the target; the pilot launches an Astra missile. A high-energy propellant quickly boosts the missile to several times the speed of sound. At ranges beyond 15 km, the Astra cannot “see” its target, so the IAF fighter guides the missile, relaying the target’s continually changing position over a secure radio link. Once it is 15 km from the target, the Astra’s onboard seeker picks up the target; after that the Astra homes in on its own.

At this point, the target would start turning and diving to throw off the missile. But the Astra manoeuvres better, and moves much faster, than even the most agile fighters. A radio proximity fuse measures the distance to the target. When the target is within 5 metres, the Astra’s radio proximity fuse detonates its warhead, sending a volley of shrapnel ripping through the enemy fighter.

Most of these technologies have already been proven. The propulsion system, the data link between the aircraft and the Astra, the radio proximity fuse, the onboard computer, the inertial navigation system and other key technologies were developed at the DRDO’s missile complex in Hyderabad.

The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one.

The forthcoming test with a Sukhoi-30MKI is called a “captive flight trial”; it will evaluate whether the Astra can withstand the physical stresses of supersonic flying and high-speed manoeuvring. Early in 2010, a “captive-II flight trial” will check whether the Astra’s avionics are properly matched with those of the Sukhoi-30MKI. The fighter should receive the missile’s signals; and the Astra should receive the aircraft’s commands.

“Matching an Indian missile with a Russian fighter’s avionics has turned out to be a complex task”, explains Mukesh Chand, one of the Astra’s key developers, “But the Astra will be much better integrated with the Indian Tejas LCA.”

Only in October 2010, after all the Astra’s systems are certified airworthy, will a live Astra be fired from a fighter. But the project scientists are confident; in a September 2008 test in Balasore, Orissa, a ground-launched Astra shot down an electronic target, validating many of the most complex technologies.

A drawback in the Astra remains its high weight; even a heavy fighter like the Sukhoi-30MKI cannot carry the missile on its wingtip stations. In comparison with the Astra’s estimated 150 kg, other BVR missiles like the Israeli Derby weigh around 100 kg only.

Nevertheless, the IAF believes the Astra will usefully supplement India’s inventory of BVR missiles. The Russian R-77 Adder, which arms India’s Russian aircraft fleet, faces worrying questions about its reliability. And the R530D missile, carried by the Mirage-2000, is nearing obsolescence.

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight

 

[gogbot]

Why does the Indian aviation systems , all weigh more than normal.

LCH weighs more than normal.
LCA weighs more
Astra weighs more.

In fact majority of delays in India, is because things weigh more than they should.

India seems to be facing the same proublem in many of its indeginous systems
Whats going on ?

 

[jarnee]

this topic looks more like topic of this forum, cause off late this forum has become more of India bashing and getting even by quoting daily print media.

 

[sancho]

Why does the Indian aviation systems , all weigh more than normal.

LCH weighs more than normal.
LCA weighs more
Astra weighs more.

In fact majority of delays in India, is because things weigh more than they should.

India seems to be facing the same proublem in many of its indeginous systems
Whats going on ?

I think the author of the article just makes a wrong comparison, because Astra is a long range BVR missile and more comparable with R77, AMRAAM, SD 10/PL12, than with short, or medium range Derby, Mica, or R73 missiles that could be carried on the wing tips of a fighter.

Long range missiles (wiki specs):

Astra 154 Kg
PL12/SD10 199 Kg
AMRAAM 152 Kg
R77 175+
Meteor 185 Kg

Short and medium range missiles:

R 73 105 Kg
AIM-9 91 Kg
Mica 112 Kg
Derby 118 Kg
ASRAAM 88 Kg
Iris-T 87,4 Kg
PL-9 115 Kg

 

[sudhir007]

 

[aimarraul]

I think the author of the article just makes a wrong comparison, because Astra is a long range BVR missile and more comparable with R77, AMRAAM, SD 10/PL12, than with short, or medium range Derby, Mica, or R73 missiles that could be carried on the wing tips of a fighter.

Long range missiles (wiki specs):

Astra 154 Kg
PL12/SD10 199 Kg
AMRAAM 152 Kg
R77 175+
Meteor 185 Kg

Short and medium range missiles:

R 73 105 Kg
AIM-9 91 Kg
Mica 112 Kg
Derby 118 Kg
ASRAAM 88 Kg
Iris-T 87,4 Kg
PL-9 115 Kg

PL12/SD10 180 Kg

PL-9 123 Kg

http://www.hudong.com/wiki/%E9%9C%B9%E9%9B%B3-9%E7%A9%BA%E7%A9%BA%E5%AF%BC%E5%BC%B9

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Cool, after a long time I m hearing some News about Astra