Indian Missiles - News, Developments, Tests, and Discussions

[Safriz]

Indian Agni-5 is the only canister launched MRBM / ICBM using booster motor. No other missile in the world does this. Why?

https://twitter.com/x/status/813591104461344768

 

[GuardianRED]

Indian Agni-5 is the only canister launched MRBM / ICBM using booster motor. No other missile in the world does this. Why?

https://twitter.com/x/status/813591104461344768

Why NOT?

 

[Safriz]

Why NOT?

Why not?

Because its hows an intrinsic weakness in Agni-5. Slow 'and insufficient thrust. Guess why.

 

[GuardianRED]

Why not?

Because its hows an intrinsic weakness in Agni-5. Slow 'and insufficient thrust. Guess why.

Eh??? weakness!!!..Lol!!!! ... the booster is just for ejection! ignition is after clearing the canister!! .... if it is insufficient thrust how did it take off the ground then??

 

[Gessler]

Indian Agni-5 is the only canister launched MRBM / ICBM using booster motor. No other missile in the world does this. Why?

https://twitter.com/x/status/813591104461344768

Why not?

Because its hows an intrinsic weakness in Agni-5. Slow 'and insufficient thrust. Guess why.

Because you're not very intelligent.

The missile has stabilization equipment while inside the canister. These fall off the missile at launch. You can observe similar components falling off this Topol-M ICBM launch -

As far as canister-launches go, there are two types:

Hot Launch: Where the missile's own motor ignites inside the canister and lifts off. This is preferable for smaller missiles as it is easier to build a canister that can withstand the hot gasses of a smaller missile.

Cold Launch: In this method, a gas-generator (which is separate from the missile's motor) is ignited to produce enough pressure through combustion to eject the 50-ton missile body from the canister...after the missile attains a minimum altitude, it's own motor ignites. This is a far safer approach - this is the method used by Agni-V and most other LRBM/ICBM-class missiles. However the ratios and time delay between gas-eject & motor ignition differs from missile to missile.

That @shaheenmissile twitter link you posted is a load of hot air. No wonder this guy was banned on PDF.

 

[Safriz]

Because you're not very intelligent.

The missile has stabilization equipment while inside the canister. These fall off the missile at launch. You can observe similar components falling off this Topol-M ICBM launch -

As far as canister-launches go, there are two types:

Hot Launch: Where the missile's own motor ignites inside the canister and lifts off. This is preferable for smaller missiles as it is easier to build a canister that can withstand the hot gasses of a smaller missile.

Cold Launch: In this method, a gas-generator (which is separate from the missile's motor) is ignited to produce enough pressure through combustion to eject the 50-ton missile body from the canister...after the missile attains a minimum altitude, it's own motor ignites. This is a far safer approach - this is the method used by Agni-V and most other LRBM/ICBM-class missiles. However the ratios and time delay between gas-eject & motor ignition differs from missile to missile.

That @shaheenmissile twitter link you posted is a load of hot air. No wonder this guy was banned on PDF.

Stabilization equipment?
You may be on about skates and sealant rings? Which are small attachments helping in sliding the missile out of canister and keep the gas pressure acting at the bottom by stopping leakage from between sides of missile and canister.
In Topol video you see all those attachments being ejected as soon as missile comes out of the canister and then one large ignition of main engine and missile is away.

In Agni you see two ignitions. First after being tossed out of canister, that's the booster. Then slanting flames seperating the booster from missile. Then second ignition which Is main engine.
No other canister launched missile uses a booster.
It shows Agni main engine is weak and cannot maintain upwards travel of the missile soon after being tossed out under gas pressure. It needs an extra push before main engine takes over. While missile has significant upwards momentum provided by gas pressure and then the booster.

 

[Gessler]

Stabilization equipment?
You may be on about skates and sealant rings? Which are small attachments helping in sliding the missile out of canister and keep the gas pressure acting at the bottom by stopping leakage from between sides of missile and canister.
In Topol video you see all those attachments being ejected as soon as missile comes out of the canister and then one large ignition of main engine and missile is away.

In Agni you see two ignitions. First after being tossed out of canister, that's the booster. Then slanting flames seperating the booster from missile. Then second ignition which Is main engine.
No other canister launched missile uses a booster.
It shows Agni main engine is weak and cannot maintain upwards travel of the missile soon after being tossed out under gas pressure. It needs an extra push before main engine takes over. While missile has significant upwards momentum provided by gas pressure and then the booster.

I don'y think I can have an intelligent conversation with you.

So for your sake, let's assume Agni-V has a separate booster (4th stage).

How does this make A5 a bad missile or worse than others in it's class?

It can still attain at maximum velocities of Mach 24, with around 25m CEP or less, and has a payload capacity of 1.5 tons. Furthermore, it demonstrates the use of complete composite-based construction for motor casings, brought in the use of Fiber-Optic Gyros, has MARV and furthermore has been successfully launched from canisters.

It's the first missile from the subcontinent to make use of most, if not all, of those techs.

I don't understand it when you say "Agni main engine is weak", as this doesn't seem to translate into any operational deficiency.

@The Deterrent Maybe you can explain what exactly this guy means?

 

[The Deterrent]

I don'y think I can have an intelligent conversation with you.

So for your sake, let's assume Agni-V has a separate booster (4th stage).

How does this make A5 a bad missile or worse than others in it's class?

It can still attain at maximum velocities of Mach 24, with around 25m CEP or less, and has a payload capacity of 1.5 tons. Furthermore, it demonstrates the use of complete composite-based construction for motor casings, brought in the use of Fiber-Optic Gyros, has MARV and furthermore has been successfully launched from canisters.

It's the first missile from the subcontinent to make use of most, if not all, of those techs.

I don't understand it when you say "Agni main engine is weak", as this doesn't seem to translate into any operational deficiency.

@The Deterrent Maybe you can explain what exactly this guy means?

Ignore him, he is the old member @safriz . He's trying to find faults with the Agni-V.
What he is referring to is the ejection motor of the canister, which deploys rapidly expanding hot exhaust to pressurize the missile out of the canister, after which the first stage kicks in. AKA the basic principle of cold-launch.

 

[Safriz]

Ignore him, he is the old member @safriz . He's trying to find faults with the Agni-V.
What he is referring to is the ejection motor of the canister, which deploys rapidly expanding hot exhaust to pressurize the missile out of the canister, after which the first stage kicks in. AKA the basic principle of cold-launch.

Hi,
The gas generator is part of the canister and is never attached to the missile I guess.
It stays in the container.
It will be more helpful if u find another such example?
It is a booster motor not a gas generator.
Only Russian Satan missile uses this arrangement for silo launch.
Solid booster can be seen ejecting after missile clears silo and then the liquid motor starts.
No solid engine missile in the world uses this arrangement.

 

[Safriz]

A list of Questions here which i ask members to look into and write opinion.

1) Agni-3 has length of 17 meters Diameter of 2 meters, and weighs 22 Tons
Agni-5 has length of 17.5 Meters Diameter of 2 meters and weighs 50 Tons.

How could just 50 Cm increase in length made the Agni-5 more than twice heavier than Agni-3?

================================================================================

2) On Wikipedia page for Agni-3 the warhead size is mentioned as 2.5 Tons.
But later below on the same page under the description RV MK 4 or the description of Missile's Re-Entry Vehicle,it says the Weapon size is 600Kg to 1800 Kg. So that can be taken as the actual weight of the nuclear bomb and the rest is the weight of Re-Entry Vehicle including motors , electronics,fuel and shielding?
Going by that assumption if the bomb has maximum weight of 1800Kg but the missile Payload is mentioned at 2500Kg,then the RV weighs 700 Kg?


While reading wiki i noticed that it says Missile's warhead stage is still under development,meaning something better is on the way. But the current warhead capacity is stated as 1500 Kg
As unlike Agni-3 which has a very large space for Warhead,Agni-5 has a very small space for Warhead as the third stage occupied much of the triangular space on top of stage 2 (as shown in the pictures)
Does that mean the 1.5 Ton mentioned is the Nuclear bomb plus the Re-Entry Vehicle?
Going by what we read in Agni-3 case the RV is 700 KG but total payload capacity of Agni-5 is mentioned at 1500Kg. Then the actual Bomb weight must be 800 Kg?

====================================================================================


Some visual comparison and limits of stages on Agni-3 and Agni-5.

First Agni-5



Cable runners on each stage are clearly visible? The narrow linear tubular protrudes? The first stage cable runner ends just below where it says "A5" . So thats the limit of stage 1.
The second stage cable Runner starts just above the DRDO insignia and ends just below the Indian flag,so thats the limits of stage 2?
The thirds stage being tucked away in the triangular section on top has cable runner starting at the ring above Indian flag and ends at the Black cone . So that's the limit of Third stage.. I am assuming that this stage only fires up in the vaccum of space where there is no resistance of air,so despite being very small,adds to the range significantly.
The Warhead or the actual bomb is housed in the Black cone.

3) Since the Black Cone comprises of the Bomb and the shielding and there had to be a gap between the two . Can such a confined space carry 1.5 Tons if considering that the 1.5 ton payload mentioned on wiki is just the bomb weight excluding RV?

================================================================================

For interest sake here are the limits of Agni-3 stages and where the RV starts. watch the cable runners on the side.



It can be seen the space for warhead is far larger than what is available on A-5.

 

[The Deterrent]

Hi,
The gas generator is part of the canister and is never attached to the missile I guess.
It stays in the container.
It will be more helpful if u find another such example?
It is a booster motor not a gas generator.
Only Russian Satan missile uses this arrangement for silo launch.
Solid booster can be seen ejecting after missile clears silo and then the liquid motor starts.
No solid engine missile in the world uses this arrangement.

I don't really know if it stays inside or is jettisoned outside. This stuff doesn't really matter, because whatever the canister ejection mechanism is, it works perfectly.

 

[Safriz]

I don't really know if it stays inside or is jettisoned outside. This stuff doesn't really matter, because whatever the canister ejection mechanism is, it works perfectly.

Well obviously you don't.
But the point being made here is that unlike other examples of Canister launched ICBM which don't need to use booster, Agni-5 does.
Which indicates weak thrust.
Hence a 50 ton missile only covering 5500 km.
While a 47 ton topol goes 10k+ kilometre.
Because Agni motor doesn't generate as much thrust and here is the proof.
Get it? No?
Never mind

 

[#hydra#]

Well obviously you don't.
But the point being made here is that unlike other examples of Canister launched ICBM which don't need to use booster, Agni-5 does.
Which indicates weak thrust.
Hence a 50 ton missile only covering 5500 km.
While a 47 ton topol goes 10k+ kilometre.
Because Agni motor doesn't generate as much thrust and here is the proof.
Get it? No?
Never mind

Man you are comparing India with Russia,a country who literally invented ICBMs.

 

[Safriz]

Man you are comparing India with Russia,a country who literally invented ICBMs.

Better than comparison with a Vedas heavenly technology which many Indians do as "scientific argument ".
But the fact I showed remains true. Only agni 5 uses solid booster motor. No other ICBM in the world does this.
Reason is a weak motor and no residual thrust.
So Indian claims of Agni-5 range 8000+ km are also rubbish. The missile isn't powerful enough

 

[#hydra#]

Better than comparison with a Vedas heavenly technology which many Indians do as "scientific argument ".
But the fact I showed remains true. Only agni 5 uses solid booster motor. No other ICBM in the world does this.
Reason is a weak motor and no residual thrust.
So Indian claims of Agni-5 range 8000+ km are also rubbish. The missile isn't powerful enough

It is the Chinese who allegedly claim A5 have 8k range,not we Indians.