Indian Indonesian

[Yingluck]

The influence of India in SE Asia is overwhelmingly negative. There were still satti (widow burning) and caste system in Indonesia and everywhere Hindus landed.

Hindu civilization should be exterminated. Good thing Indonesian get rid of Hindus.

 

[KAMDEV]

You know I think it was Hitler's propagandist that said if you say something enough times people will believe it. The Indians shout 'Indus' so often that most of the world actually thinks Indus is in India. So don't blame if the Indonesians don't know where it is.

You should change name of your country to industan
So that your claim can be justified.

 

[Indos]

To the ignorant and the uneducated, they think that we are part of them. The uneducated indians and Arabs usually have this mindset. There isn't any of their culture practiced here. Religion wise, Hindu Buddhism and islam gets to get assimilated into the Indonesian culture, not the other way around.

What Muslim practice in Indonesia is similar with what Muslim practice in Pakistan. I dont get what you mean with Islam get assimilated into Indonesian culture ?? What culture ?? The things that is told by our elder ?? If it is not fit with Islam we should trow away. Please dont get offended with what @eldarlmari said previously, maybe he dont have any religion or worshiping another human (Confusicius). Muslim in Indonesia takes pride with Islam and love our prophet Muhammad which is an Arab. Following Islam doesnt mean that we follow Arab culture. Arab culture that dont fit with Islam should be thrown away as well. Islam is Islam. It comes from God directly through an Arab (Muhammad).

I think you are a part of people who advocate Islam Nusantara. Islam Nusantara itself is still Islam that is also practiced in Pakistan,Bangladesh, and else where. I dont see any different from "pure" Islam in term of its practice. And many have express their rejection on Islam Nusantara labelling, including in Nahdatul Ulama (NU) who advocate it in the first time. I hope the term Islam Nusantara is not used anymore. Islam is Islam. Period. We want a pure Islam.

We even have a second largest Muslim organization with 29 million members whose work primarily go into purifying Islam in Indonesia. Yup, it is Muhammadiyah.

Muhammadiyah (Arabic: محمدية‎, followers of Muhammad. full name: Persyarikatan Muhammadiyah) is a major Islamic non-governmental organization in Indonesia.[1] The organization was founded in 1912 by Ahmad Dahlan in the city of Yogyakarta as a reformist socioreligious movement, advocating ijtihad - individual interpretation of Qur'an and sunnah, as opposed to taqlid - the acceptance of the traditional interpretations propounded by the ulama.[2] Since its establishment, Muhammadiyah has adopted a reformist platform mixing religious and secular education,[3] primarily as a way to promote the upward mobility of Muslims toward a 'modern' community and to purify Indonesian Islam of local syncretic practices.[3]

This is maybe what you called as being assimilated into our culture ??

Kebaya. Women traditional dress. From this:

turn into this : Kebaya Hijab/Syar'i

Hindu were practiced differently here and is 180 degree different than what they practiced elsewhere. In ancient times, we merged both religion of Hindu and Buddha, forming hinddu-buddist which practiced by the sriwijayas and majapahits.

What ? Majapahit is Hindu and Srivijayas is Buddhist, nothing hybrid. I also learn somewhere that ancient Indonesian buddhist is a pure form of Buddhist.

 

[Tps43]

You know something is wrong when over 2 billion people on the planet can identify with the Indus river of Pakistan.

Btw Most of iranians recognize pakistan due to indus river.
Speaking from my experience.

 

[UnitedPak]

You should change name of your country to industan
So that your claim can be justified.

Our claim is justified by the actual presence of the Indus river and Indus valleys within our borders.
Besides, all of our provinces and lands are already represented in our name.

Maybe India needs to consider representing the remaining 97% of its population and stop obsessing over Pak.

 

[TMA]

Your views sound like the guy 'Kaptaan'.

Here's a contrasting viewpoint. A lot of Indians see the entire Indian subcontinent as a singular entity. The cultural differences are minor. We are not going to alter our history(and name) just because you broke the union and ran away with your piece of land.
Your country is built on faith, and will last as a separate entity roughly as long as that faith is strong. The future belongs to larger countries, or unions(of smaller countries).

There would be little cause of separation once your Muslims and our Hindus cease being religious. The process is ongoing. You have finally elected the least religious leader in your history.

They are incorrect. The Subcontinent of India is more diverse than the Subcontinent of Europe (okay geographically smaller but in other regards more diverse). The Subcontinent of India has only been a unified entity for very short periods of time throughout the centuries....for most of the time it has been many different fiefdoms and principalities...so what union are you talking about????
What were the main empires in the Subcontinent of India before the British....Sikh, Mughal and Marati and then dozens of smaller fiefdoms...what union man? The one thousands of years ago when some fella from Central Bharat conquered the rest of the Subcontinent and his empire lasted for a relative short while....

How similar is a Pukhtoon from Kandahar to a Marati from Mumbai to an Assamese from from Assam to a Tamil from Tamil nadu. Different religions, different ethnicities, different cultures, different languages....
Of course there are similarities, no doubt, like a German is similar to a Frenchman to a Spaniard to a Romanian to a Briton to a Greek to a Swede...but still separate....
Even if Islam did not come to the Subcontinent of India...there would be different political entities...it is just with the Islam the difference became more....

 

[axisofevil]

So Ancient India exteded to Burma, Cambodia, Malaysia and Indonesia. wow.

Ancient India spread its sphere of influence and religious identity even further than your map! Include Afghanistan as well! There are reports that Indian Kings used to get together along with other kingdoms outside of India to celebrate festivals and exchange ideas. Honestly, Pakistani's are the best thing the British ever did. Your hate for the subcontinent, your Indian ancestry, traditions, values, etc make you the West's and any other countries best ally to hold back Indian influence throughout out the world..

 

[initial_d]

The influence of India in SE Asia is overwhelmingly negative. There were still satti (widow burning) and caste system in Indonesia and everywhere Hindus landed.

Hindu civilization should be exterminated. Good thing Indonesian get rid of Hindus.

I never heard of it happen in indonesia, you must mistaken, indian hindu and balinese hindu are somehow different

 

[UnitedPak]

Your hate for the subcontinent, your Indian ancestry, traditions, values, etc make you the West's and any other countries best ally to hold back Indian influence throughout out the world..

We love our ancestry, traditions, values, languages and history. We deplore the artificial and utterly meaningless categorisation as "Indian". We have our shared pasts and a lot more that is not shared.

The problem is that Indians cannot respect their neighbours identities and feel the need to intentionally blur lines in order to credit their modern nation for the achievements of outsiders. Your identity is based on deceit if you interchangeably refer to the "subcontinent" and your nation as "India", while throwing tantrums if your neighbours don't engage in the same practice. Its not only Pakistanis who feel like this. Most Nepalis have the same opinion of Indians claiming Buddha as Indian. Its even more farcical when you claim Islamic/Mughal/Central Asian cultures as "Indian".

Hindu nationalism is clearly a very insecure movement that is frustrated by never identifying with or having anything resembling a historic nation like Persia or China. So now you resort to this "soft influence" and "celebrate festivals and exchange ideas" crap to convince the world that you are historic equals. Its sad and laughable at the same time. The truth is that Hindustan. which itself has had numerous meanings, was never the basis for any identity. This is why you desperately need to blur the lines and claim the Indus valley, Afghanistan, Nepal, OIT, Sanskrit (which itself is foreign) to supplement Hindu Nationalism.

 

[Yingluck]

Nothing is more evil than Hindu religion and culture. It deserve to be exterminated.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

The early 14th-century CE traveller Odoric of Pordenone mentions wife burning in Zampa (Champa), in nowadays south/central Vietnam. Anant Altekar states that sati spread with Hindu migrants to Southeast Asian islands, such as to Java, Sumatra and Bali. According to Dutch colonial records, this was however a rare practice in Indonesia, one found in royal households.


Description of the Balinese rite of self-sacrifice or Suttee, in Houtman's 1597 Verhael vande Reyse ... Naer Oost Indien
In Cambodia, both the lords and the wives of a dead king voluntarily burnt themselves in the 15th and 16th centuries. According to European traveller accounts, in 15th century Mergui, in present-day extreme south Myanmar, widow burning was practiced.[40] A Chinese pilgrim from the 15th century seems to attest the practice on islands called Ma-i-tung and Ma-i (possibly Belitung (outside Sumatra) and Northern Philippines, respectively).

According to the historian K.M. de Silva, Christian missionaries in Sri Lanka with a substantial Hindu minority population, reported "there were no glaring social evils associated with the indigenous religions-no sati, (...). There was thus less scope for the social reformer."[42] However, although sati was non-existent in the colonial era, earlier Muslim travellers such as Sulaiman al-Tajir reported that sati was optionally practiced, which a widow could choose to undertake.

I never heard of it happen in indonesia, you must mistaken, indian hindu and balinese hindu are somehow different

 

[prashantazazel]

They are incorrect. The Subcontinent of India is more diverse than the Subcontinent of Europe (okay geographically smaller but in other regards more diverse). The Subcontinent of India has only been a unified entity for very short periods of time throughout the centuries....for most of the time it has been many different fiefdoms and principalities...so what union are you talking about????
What were the main empires in the Subcontinent of India before the British....Sikh, Mughal and Marati and then dozens of smaller fiefdoms...what union man? The one thousands of years ago when some fella from Central Bharat conquered the rest of the Subcontinent and his empire lasted for a relative short while....

How similar is a Pukhtoon from Kandahar to a Marati from Mumbai to an Assamese from from Assam to a Tamil from Tamil nadu. Different religions, different ethnicities, different cultures, different languages....
Of course there are similarities, no doubt, like a German is similar to a Frenchman to a Spaniard to a Romanian to a Briton to a Greek to a Swede...but still separate....
Even if Islam did not come to the Subcontinent of India...there would be different political entities...it is just with the Islam the difference became more....

A Marathi, a Punjabi, someone from Kerala or someone from up are quite dissimilar They still exist in the Union. Bigger countries(if geographically contiguous), have a better clout and overall stability.
Anyhow, peaceful relations will come in another decade or two. After that, it is anybody's guess

 

[axisofevil]

We love our ancestry, traditions, values, languages and history. We deplore the artificial and utterly meaningless categorisation as "Indian". We have our shared pasts and a lot more that is not shared.

The problem is that Indians cannot respect their neighbours identities and feel the need to intentionally blur lines in order to credit their modern nation for the achievements of outsiders. Your identity is based on deceit if you interchangeably refer to the "subcontinent" and your nation as "India", while throwing tantrums if your neighbours don't engage in the same practice. Its not only Pakistanis who feel like this. Most Nepalis have the same opinion of Indians claiming Buddha as Indian. Its even more farcical when you claim Islamic/Mughal/Central Asian cultures as "Indian".

Hindu nationalism is clearly a very insecure movement that is frustrated by never identifying with or having anything resembling a historic nation like Persia or China. So now you resort to this "soft influence" and "celebrate festivals and exchange ideas" crap to convince the world that you are historic equals. Its sad and laughable at the same time. The truth is that Hindustan. which itself has had numerous meanings, was never the basis for any identity. This is why you desperately need to blur the lines and claim the Indus valley, Afghanistan, Nepal, OIT, Sanskrit (which itself is foreign) to supplement Hindu Nationalism.

You dislike the term Indian becoz it belittles your country. You and others are so quick to say oh India was never united when in reality we know with proof it was. Why should India acknowledge Pakistan when muslims invader did just that invade from outside with the intent to destroy India? they were different from the muslims down south who came peacefully and embraced communal harmony! The foreign invaders converted many through cruel methods and due to that, entire generations forget their entire ancestry like African Americans. Don't believe the hype, look at what ISIS is doing today....it was worse back then!


How did Buddhism and Hinduism spread? With birds? What were Nepal boundaries back then when it never existed as Nepal? How did it include Buddha's birthplace? No documented proof but we want believe those boundaries existed back then? LOL

 

[UnitedPak]

You dislike the term Indian becoz it belittles your country.

Not at all. I dislike it because its an artificial concept designed for modern Indian nationalism and previously a European colonial concept, both of them completely artificial. There is no legitimate reason why Pakistan needs to be part of either. I am well aware that you like using the term interchangeably for the entire subcontinent and your modern nation. Its the same with "Akhand Bharat" which never existed either and there is no reason why Pakistan should join these delusions.
Your nationalist story line would make a lot more sense if you had based it on Mauryan empire or something thats actually been known to exist. But currently, its based on Hindu nationalism which is an amazingly vague concept.

You and others are so quick to say oh India was never united when in reality we know with proof it was. Why should India acknowledge Pakistan when muslims invader did just that invade from outside with the intent to destroy India? they were different from the muslims down south who came peacefully and embraced communal harmony! The foreign invaders converted many through cruel methods and due to that, entire generations forget their entire ancestry like African Americans. Don't believe the hype, look at what ISIS is doing today....it was worse back then!

Your problem is that Hindus barely have any recorded history. This is what allows you to imagine up laughably deluded scenarios of a peaceful, noble Akhand Bharat vs evil Muslim invaders.

How did Buddhism and Hinduism spread? With birds? What were Nepal boundaries back then when it never existed as Nepal? How did it include Buddha's birthplace? No documented proof but we want believe those boundaries existed back then? LOL

Exactly. Its pointless to argue with people who think their national history started from the formation of a tectonic plate. Your definition of a nation is very different from the rest of the planet.

 

[Mamluk]

The influence of India in SE Asia is overwhelmingly negative. There were still satti (widow burning) and caste system in Indonesia and everywhere Hindus landed.

When foreigners hear Hindusim, they think Bollywood and peaceful hairy monks meditating in the forest.
Real Hinduism is terrifying.

 

[Pakistani E]

Good, now Indonesians can also join the queue along with Indians to claim Harappa, Mehr Garh, Indus Valley Civilization because your name is derived from "Indus" in Pakistan.

@Taimur Khurram @UnitedPak @Sher Shah Awan @django

Add the Caribbean nations of West Indies to the list and we have a true Indus party.