Indian footprints emerging on Naval base attack

[Irfan Baloch]

In that case, dont you think, China is the biggest benefactor of this entire episode.

going by your logic,
Russia and Europe is the biggest benefactor from every major terrorist attack in India in the recent past. because after every such incident Indian weapon acquisition overdrive worth billions of dollars, thus keeping the Western and Russian war industry afloat during the recession.
Sounds absurd? Well revisit your own post and fellow Indians coining China in the attack. They already have a major share in civil and military projects so they don’t see the incentive of destabilizing and harming an ally who is to host and facilitate the Gwadar port and the road route to the silk road, much to the annoyance to “many countries”

 

[ARCHON]

going by your logic,
Russia and Europe is the biggest benefactor from every major terrorist attack in India in the recent past. because after every such incident Indian weapon acquisition overdrive worth billions of dollars, thus keeping the Western and Russian war industry afloat during the recession.
Sounds absurd? Well revisit your own post and fellow Indians coining China in the attack. They already have a major share in civil and military projects so they don’t see the incentive of destabilizing and harming an ally who is to host and facilitate the Gwadar port and the road route to the silk road, much to the annoyance to “many countries”

Huh.. we never bought anything due to terrorist attacks .. no aircrafts, no subs... just some guns from Israel to replenish the troops.

We stepped up coastal survielence after mumbai attacks by building our own ships and vessels.

 

[footmarks]

going by your logic,
Russia and Europe is the biggest benefactor from every major terrorist attack in India in the recent past. because after every such incident Indian weapon acquisition overdrive worth billions of dollars, thus keeping the Western and Russian war industry afloat during the recession.
Sounds absurd? Well revisit your own post and fellow Indians coining China in the attack. They already have a major share in civil and military projects so they don’t see the incentive of destabilizing and harming an ally who is to host and facilitate the Gwadar port and the road route to the silk road, much to the annoyance to “many countries”

No, the biggest beneficiary is PN itself. PN was, for a very long time, the most neglected part of Pakistani armed forces. To get attention, they staged the drama themselves with help from ISI & Chinese intelligence agencies. This is why earlier, there were 22 attackers reported. but when the mission objectives of getting the requisite attention were achieved, they just gathered the so called "attackers" and told them " chalo bhaiyo, kapde change kar lo, drama khatam hua".There are credible reports pointing to this also.

 

[HellzHere]

India did it ..now what?

 

[Markus]

going by your logic,
Russia and Europe is the biggest benefactor from every major terrorist attack in India in the recent past. because after every such incident Indian weapon acquisition overdrive worth billions of dollars, thus keeping the Western and Russian war industry afloat during the recession.
Sounds absurd? Well revisit your own post and fellow Indians coining China in the attack. They already have a major share in civil and military projects so they don’t see the incentive of destabilizing and harming an ally who is to host and facilitate the Gwadar port and the road route to the silk road, much to the annoyance to “many countries”

Yes, you are right, Russia and other countries are the biggest benefactors when India makes weapons purchases but the same logic cannot be applied to India and Pakistan both.

And ofcourse, there could be some vested interests of major defence companies that would not want violence in India to end.

Also, please note, I just said that China is the main benefactor, I never said China could be behind the incident.

 

[mastaan]

Indians confused with the French ?? Oh boy, all that fair & lovely must finally be working,

Ahem... correction... Fair and Handsome...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Huh.. we never bought anything due to terrorist attacks .. no aircrafts, no subs... just some guns from Israel to replenish the troops.

We stepped up coastal survielence after mumbai attacks by building our own ships and vessels.

same here. look up to the previous comments you guys are theorising it a Chinese job to convince Pakistan to buy their stuff (aircrafts etc). hence I answered in kind.

The line used by Indian posters (re China) is an interesting it falls short of trolling without giving chance to flaming even if it is implausible.

you see? how a comment seems so absurd when it comes from someone else but sounds so logical when being used by yourself and your friends?

PS. My feeling about Mumbai terrorists is the same as I have for the ones that attacked Siri Lankan team and Naval base

 

[footmarks]

same here. look up to the previous comments you guys are theorising it a Chinese job to convince Pakistan to buy their stuff (aircrafts etc). hence I answered in kind.

The line used by Indian posters (re China) is an interesting it falls short of trolling without giving chance to flaming even if it is implausible.

you see? how a comment seems so absurd when it comes from someone else but sounds so logical when being used by yourself and your friends?

PS. My feeling about Mumbai terrorists is the same as I have for the ones that attacked Siri Lankan team and Naval base

Sri lankan team yes, but not mehran base. The attackers did not attack any civilians at mehran.

 

[notsuperstitious]

same here. look up to the previous comments you guys are theorising it a Chinese job to convince Pakistan to buy their stuff (aircrafts etc). hence I answered in kind.

The line used by Indian posters (re China) is an interesting it falls short of trolling without giving chance to flaming even if it is implausible.

you see? how a comment seems so absurd when it comes from someone else but sounds so logical when being used by yourself and your friends?

PS. My feeling about Mumbai terrorists is the same as I have for the ones that attacked Siri Lankan team and Naval base

Sir, the thread is about speculation only, there is no proof yet, and knowing Pakistani security establishment's record on accountability, there probably won't be any.

Hence speculating China's motives is no more trolling than speculating India's motives.

Infact China's motives are all win win and huge compared to India's, China gets to keep Pakistan for keeps and with full control like North Korea, Burma etc, whereas India loses its contact with Pakistan that we have through USA.

Also, China is likely to use Pakistan against us (I hope you guys are realistic about it and not hoping THEY will do your dirty work, right?), not America. So we have NO net benefit in doing this, China does.

Again, speculation, but this forum allows it. If you have a problem with speculation, have this thread deleted, don't single out only Indians pls.

 

[S.M.R]

Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran

By Salman Siddiqui

KARACHI:

Officials from Pakistan Navy suspect the May 22 naval airbase attack would not have been possible without inside help.

They, however, deny that the change in command at the PNS Mehran has anything to do with the attack and termed the transfer orders a ‘routine’ matter.

Inside job

When the attackers cut the barbed wire on the perimeter wall at the end of the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) Faisal base which is adjacent to the PNS Mehran, they had two options.

Instead of the naval base, they could have gone after the assets and personnel of the air force, but they chose not to, even though there were at least four American-made C-130 cargo planes on the PAF side.

“The attackers knew that the navy’s prized assets such as the Orion aircraft and the Chinese and American personnel were present on our base and they came specifically after them,” a senior navy officer said, admitting that no one on the outside could have known about it.

He said the attackers knew the base “inside out” and were well aware of the points where they would have “an advantage over the security forces” who would engage them.

He pointed out that three of the Special Service Group commandos, who were sent in to subdue the attackers, saying this was “no easy feat”.

The navy officials suspects the reconnaissance prior to the attack was carried out not only by someone taking visual footage of the base from the nearby Karsaz bridge, but also by someone from inside the sprawling base where, more than 500 personnel are deployed at any given time.

Well, there seems no big deal in getting the information of Orions as when google earth can show the close pics of cars even bikes, What would the pics taken by military officials will be showing.

The bold blue parts really surprising that when they had to option to go to PAF base, why they targeted the Orions only. Just a food for thought or Conspiracy theory

However, they denied that the attackers were provided weapons by some insider and insisted that the terrorists were equipped with their own Russian-made machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers.

“They are definitely some people suspected of involvement from within, but we’re still investigating exactly who was behind it,” he said.

“From a janitor to an officer at the base, everyone is a suspect at this point,” he said.

He said that previously there have been cases when clerics of local mosques at naval premises were found to be involved in ‘anti-state’ activities.

While the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan have claimed responsibility for the attack, navy officials say that they are not ruling out the possibility of a “foreign country’s intelligence agency’s involvement in the incident”.

Important to note above as well.

Rear-Admiral Tehseenullah Khan, who was the former director-general of the Maritime Security Agency, has been appointed as the head of the team probing the case.

Uzbek attackers?

Navy officials insist the attackers were “not Pakistanis, but foreigners”.

“When I saw the body, I immediately knew that the young man was (an) Uzbek,” a navy official said. He provided no forensic evidence to support his assertion.

However, doctors who conducted the autopsy on the bodies of the four terrorists contradicted the navy’s asertion and said they looked like “any other young Pakistani men” from northern areas.

Interestingly, the autopsy report says the terrorists were “Muslim males between the ages of 22 and 26”. When asked how they determined the religious leanings of the terrorists, the doctor said the autopsy revealed they were circumcised.

Meanwhile, security agencies on Wednesday took a new set of samples for DNA testing from the bodies of the four terrorists being kept at an Edhi morgue.

Lol, the claim is based on circumcisen, if any person is circumcised need not to be Muslim for sure, while who is not circumcised is a Non Muslim for sure.

Change of command

Base commander Raja Tahir has been replaced by Commodore Khalid Pervez. Although the announcement of the change in command of the PNS Mehran has been made only two days after the attack, Pakistan Navy officials insist it is nothing out of the ordinary.

“There’s no truth that Tahir is being replaced as punishment since his replacement orders had been issued four months age and Commodore Pervez has been on the base for more than a week,” a navy official said.

A navy official says that even though they were being blamed for a massive security lapse, the fact is that the breach occurred on the side of the wall that comes under the air force’s jurisdiction.

“They have their own cameras and watchtowers there and failed to spot the attackers. So why blame us,” the official said. He added that there was no question about heads being rolled for the incident.

Yes, indeed a security failure, no doubt about it.

Rehman Malik

Navy officials are extremely upset with Rehman Malik’s statement that some attackers might have escaped the base and say their chief, Admiral Noman Bashir, had no alternative but to agree with the federal minister’s statement.

They also say it was peculiar that Malik came on air at 10:43pm on Sunday, claiming that around 10 to 15 attackers had not only infiltrated the PNS Mehran base, but also taken control.

“The attack began at 10:37pm. How could he claim to know all that when even we at the control room did not know the exact position,” they added. A navy officer admitted it was a mistake on their part for lodging an FIR which said there were more than 10 attackers.

Well the number is quiet suspicious, as the information that coming out during the operation was mainly handled by the fire tender / ambulance drivers. So it seems that there have been arrests, and are being kept hidden for security reasons. As in the past, there have been instances that arrested terrorist either been killed or managed to run away from hospitals / courts etc.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 26th, 2011.

Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran – The Express Tribune

The main concern is that they are suspicious about the inside Job. What do I understand by reading the whole news that 'The same has been carried out by the foreigners with the help of Insiders and they could be clerics of local mosques.

News is however contrary to the title, as Navy officer suspect both the inside as well as outside job. Rather, it has been carried out by Outsiders with the info getting from Insiders.

 

[Eric89]

Proof of what, the militants specifically targeting the P3-C Orion or the Taliban just mindlessly blowing up the civilians without any real strategic gains in mind?

Hmmm.. this theory is not convincing.. anything else you have to prove this??

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Yes, you are right, Russia and other countries are the biggest benefactors when India makes weapons purchases but the same logic cannot be applied to India and Pakistan both.

And ofcourse, there could be some vested interests of major defence companies that would not want violence in India to end.

Also, please note, I just said that China is the main benefactor, I never said China could be behind the incident.

very well put my dear

thats what I am saying (in my earlier post to other Indians) that same logic cant be used for China because its India & Pakistan who both have their military spend against each other (yea yea India does say that it is looking beyond Pakistan now, but 80%+ of its forces deployments still show Pakistan centric view)

I am not sure if other people are smart enough or care enough to distinguish between the words culprit and benefactor. (they can be used interchangeably too) because a culprit is benefactor by default too 

Re destruction of the American surveillance crafts, China doesn’t automatically become a confirmed supplier of the future aircrafts that would replace these planes. Defence purchases of strategic importance take years of formulating needs, selecting planning and negotiations. Incidents like these don’t mean that they are drastically changed as suggested. Attrition and losses are always accounted for and don’t just result in a U turn in the decisions.

The incident asks everyone to think who considered these planes to be a risk? TTP and Al Qaeda live among civilians in tribal areas and the settled cities not in submersibles and submarines. They were not even that symbolic or well known to public like F-16 or JF-17 might be. Secondly, the method and execution was only similar to Siri Lanken team attack where the intent was not to stay and fight till death but complete the objective and leave the place, except this time one team was to stay on and keep the security forces engaged until the “core” group escaped.

The terrorist team may well have been consisting of well trained Pakistani Taliban (read LeT, LeJ, TTP or sipah Sahabah) + Indian commandos (sans explosive jackets).
This is nothing new at all. When Afghan Mujahideen were introduced with Stinger missiles and 120Mm mortars, both ISI and CIA operatives accompanied the assault teams in person in the initial missions to see the live action. Likewise, British special agents were Para dropped in occupied France to meet up with resistance fighters to plan attacks on Nazi officers, fuel and ammo depots.

The prize here was too big, too crucial too strategic to be given over to some local fanatics no matter how much they would have been trained in Afghanistan so the “core” team accompanied by the kamikaze group reached the targets, destroyed them and left the scene (just like the attacker on Siri Lanken team in Lahore) while the kamikaze part of the terrorists continued to engage the security forces, taking advantage of their restrain due to the Naval assets in the area.

We got to be careful with the wording here because it would mean every natural or human disaster means that the companies selling infrastructure and goods to replace and reconstruct are benefactors. And sadly, the recent natural disasters in the subcontinent have been indiscriminate and devastating so using such words would haunt anyone with a bit of conscience and care about the victims. I am not begging for pity here, lol, far from it (actually I find myself impressed by the success)just saying that fate is a strange thing and such banter has a habit of coming back.

I remember that last year there were some Indians posting jokes and fun about a terrorist attack somewhere in Pakistan and then in few days there was a terrorist attack by Naxlis in India on a train. I went quickly to that thread and requested everyone not to use this as a revenge or response to usual Indian posts, as it was a human tragedy.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sri lankan team yes, but not mehran base. The attackers did not attack any civilians at mehran.

true that true that,
I am drawing the similarity of not deciding to fight to death and choosing to escape the scene.. (in this case by the ones who actually blew up and escaped while others provided cover and kept forces engaged)

Again, speculation, but this forum allows it. If you have a problem with speculation, have this thread deleted, don't single out only Indians pls.

I have no problem with that. reason to single out Indians (as you put it) is because that’s where the Idea has come from and I am not impulsively dismissing it just responding in kind and I think I can live with that kind of argument instead of outright rants, insults, flaming and bravado.

 

[hembo]

Go figure:


Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack
Umar Cheema
Thursday, May 26, 2011

ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud’s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.

He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations.

No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy’s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts.

Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder.

Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info.

The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as “sheep”. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as ‘goats’ by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.

The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of ‘sheep’ and ‘goats’. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats.

 

[S.M.R]

Yes, you are right, Russia and other countries are the biggest benefactors when India makes weapons purchases but the same logic cannot be applied to India and Pakistan both.

And ofcourse, there could be some vested interests of major defence companies that would not want violence in India to end.

Also, please note, I just said that China is the main benefactor, I never said China could be behind the incident.

Totally agreed with your. However, it is the rule that investigations starts for main beneficiaries and level of suspicion on friends is lower as compare to those who are not friends.