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Indian Elephant vs Chinese Dragon

dr.umer

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10 Sep 2008.
Times of India

The Indian elephant has a deep-seated and chronic inferiority complex vis-a-vis the Chinese dragon. Way back in 1950, after the Chinese communist revolution, the US offered China's UN Security Council seat to India. Jawaharlal Nehru turned down the offer, apparently on Soviet advice, for fear that accepting the American invitation would offend China.

China has always been grateful to India for this generous gesture, though it might have displayed its gratitude with an inscrutability that is truly oriental. In 1962 China invaded India, an exercise facilitated by the then defence minister, Krishna Menon (a Nehru protege), under whose stewardship India's ordnance factories had stopped making arms and ammunition (which might have offended the sensibilities of our big neighbour in the east) in favour of coffee percolators, among other widgets.

Nehru ordered the Indian army to 'throw out' the Chinese; instead the invaders threw out our valiant but tragically ill-equipped soldiers. The Chinese withdrew, but to this day Beijing lays claim to the whole of Arunachal Pradesh (though it has, graciously, allowed India to keep Sikkim).

To foster cordial relations in South Asia, China helped Pakistan achieve full nuclear status in the early 1990s, a favour which Islamabad has returned by acknowledging Chinese suzerainty over Aksai Chin, the high-altitude desert which India claims as its own. Among other tokens of its friendship, Beijing has stoutly and steadfastly resisted India's inclusion in the same Security Council which Nehru's 'pehle aap' politesse ushered China into.

And of course in the recent nail-biting Vienna meet of the NSG, Beijing did its best to play last-minute spoiler for India's hopes (now realised) of ending 34 years of nuclear apartheid.

That seems to have been the dragon-sized straw that finally broke the Indian elephant's back. During Chinese foreign minister Yang Jiechi's visit to India, New Delhi voiced "strong" disapproval of Beijing's obstructionism in Vienna. It was pointed out that India had bent over backwards — with a nimbleness that might have won it a gold if performed in the gymnastic rather than the political arena — in ensuring that the passage of the Beijing Olympics torch through New Delhi wasn't compromised by Free Tibet protesters.

Despite this, China had done its damnedest to shaft India in Vienna, helped not a little by the customarily submissive posture adopted by New Delhi in its relations with Beijing. Unfazed by such accusations, Yang urbanely replied that on the contrary Beijing had in fact played a very "constructive" role in Vienna on behalf of New Delhi. However, Yang's meeting with his Indian counterpart, Pranab Mukherjee, was reportedly "interrupted by Tibetan protesters who were taken into custody", as reported in the TOI. In Indo-Chinese relations, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

Why is it that New Delhi is so sensitive about stepping on Beijing's toes, when China has no compunction about stomping on Indian toes, and with hobnailed boots at that? Is it because China demonstrably has far more nukes, foreign investment inflows, exports, Olympic golds, mobile phones, millionaires, skyscrapers than India does, not to mention a civilisational pedigree at least as old as that of our own Indus Valley?

All true. But is that reason enough for New Delhi's doormat attitude when confronted by Beijing: please come and wipe your feet on us, helped by Comrades Karat and Yechury?

The real reason, the real threat we face from China, is far more insidious than that represented by nuclear weapons, or FDI figures, or global market shares. It is that — with its monolithic, single-minded pursuit of success at all costs, human or material — China makes us apologetic and ashamed of what is, and ought to be, our most prized advantage over the Middle Kingdom: our democracy. Ragged, half-starved, flood-battered, riot-scarred but nonetheless democracy, not the jackboot of dictatorship. Our democracy ought to be our biggest pride. China threatens to make it our shame. That — and not nuclear deals or Security Council seats — is the real challenge of the Chinese dragon. How ready are we to face it?
 
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This type of article puts me to sleep, but I am bore right now, might as well.








Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

Hindu gods spike Chinese dragon
By M K Bhadrakumar

India's National Security Advisor M K Narayanan made an astounding claim in a television interview on Saturday that "divine intervention" might have secured for the country a "waiver" from the Nuclear Suppliers' Group (NSG). The "waiver" allows India to have global nuclear commerce without formally signing either the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) and paves the way for the US Congress to ratify a potentially lucrative civilian nuclear deal with India.

The NSG "adjusted its guidelines" for India on Saturday. Narayanan was reacting to the news. He then went on to launch a tirade against China, alleging Beijing tried to spoil India's party at Vienna. He said India was taken by surprise by the Chinese doublespeak since Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao had assured the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that Beijing would play a constructive role when the issue of the "waiver" for India came up for consideration in Vienna.

He lamented India's misfortune to have countries like China as neighbors. "We cannot choose our neighbors. We have China and Pakistan as neighbors and with both of them we desire to have the best of relations," he said. Narayanan added, "The Chinese foreign minister will come here and we will, of course, express disappointment. We will say that we did not expect this from China." (Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi was due to arrive in Delhi on Monday.)

The timing of the broadside is intriguing. It stands to reason that Yang's visit would have provided a splendid opportunity for Delhi to do some plain-speaking with the Chinese one-to-one. India's veteran External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee could have ably done that. Yet Delhi chose to go ballistic. Curiously, Mukherjee took the first opportunity on Sunday to somewhat moderate his colleague's savage attack on the Chinese, but without quite disowning him. When asked about China's stance at the NSG, Mukherjee told reporters, "I don't want to comment on what role was played by which country at the NSG. This is their internal matter. Every sovereign country has its right to express its own sovereign will."

A spate of Indian media reports have since appeared based on government "leaks", thumb-sketching behind-the-scene efforts by Chinese diplomats to somehow scuttle a NSG consensus decision on Saturday. Any delay in Vienna would have been lethal. It would have thwarted the efforts by the US to pilot the NSG "waiver" and the US-India civil nuclear cooperation agreement to the Capitol Hill on Monday. A tight schedule lies ahead to obtain the approval from the US Congress before September 28 when its session ends.

It remains unclear where it was that the Indian special envoys sent to Vienna to canvass for the waiver were rubbed so badly by the Chinese diplomats. Actually, Beijing had never hidden its unhappiness over the presumptuous fashion in which the US first erected the NSG to punish India for its nuclear explosion in 1974 and then shepherded the world community to isolate the Indians. Now, the US has unilaterally decided otherwise and sought to amend the rules so as to accommodate Delhi. As recently as last Monday, the People's Daily lambasted Washington in no uncertain terms for its "multiple standards" and inconsistencies apropos of the nuclear non-proliferation regime.

But the Chinese commentaries took care to focus criticism on Washington. They left open the possibility that when the crunch came, China, after having said its piece, would move on rather than exercise its prerogative to block an NSG consensus. Indeed, senior American officials have more than once expressed optimism that rhetoric apart, Beijing wouldn't obstruct an NSG waiver. In fact, at the crucial NSG session on Saturday in Vienna, China, like many other NSG member countries, absented.

All said, therefore, the Indian government's decision to whip up a degree of public frenzy over China has been deliberate and well-conceived. To be sure, a powerful imagery has been conjured up: Hindu Gods spiking the Chinese dragon. The thesis is that China worked hard at the NSG to obtain a similar waiver for it close ally Pakistan. As proof, the government has given to the media a statement by Yang, "It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism." The corporate media eagerly lapped up the China-bashing. The large anti-China lobby in the strategic community in Delhi promptly acquiesced with "expert" opinion.

The government's purpose has been well-served. The public attention has been almost entirely deflected from the core issue: What is the additional price that Washington has extracted from Delhi for obtaining this NSG waiver? The government struck with immaculate timing just as misgivings were beginning to be voiced in India that Delhi paid a high price to get the NSG waiver.

An explicit Indian commitment not to resort to nuclear weapon-testing ever again formed the "basis" of the NSG waiver. Indeed, on Friday morning, quite out of the blue, Mukherjee made a formal statement in Delhi ostensibly regarding India's commitment to disarmament. The statement contained an innocuous reference to India's commitment to observe a moratorium on nuclear testing. At first glance, it seemed Mukherjee was only restating India's stance. But as it turned out, the resonance was directed towards Vienna and the NSG waiver was forthcoming on its "basis".

Clearly, the NSG waiver was neither "clean" nor "unconditional" as Delhi claimed but instead signified yet another surrender of national sovereignty. The waiver has converted India's voluntary moratorium on testing into a multilateral commitment. Effectively, India has now agreed that any fuel supply agreement for its imported reactors will be subject to regular NSG review, while restrictions remain on India gaining access to uranium enrichment and reprocessing technologies and India's nuclear facilities come under the safeguards of the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA] in perpetuity.

In other words, India has been virtually brought within the ambit of the CTBT and NPT. India has given an open-ended commitment to abide by all NSG guidelines, including any future changes that the body may make in its guidelines, while India cannot participate in the NSG decision-making as such. In overall terms, India's nuclear program will be brought under US monitoring and control. Unsurprisingly, there is a sense of disquiet that the government is keeping away from public purview the full details of the negotiations over the nuclear deal with the US.

Overarching all this is the reality that the US-India nuclear deal forms an integral part of a broader strategic relationship. Indeed, in the past three-year period, while the nuclear deal was under negotiation, Indian foreign policy already moved onto a trajectory harmonizing with the US regional policies. There has been masterly inactivity with regard to building up relations with Russia; a distinct cooling is apparent vis-a-vis the Russia-China-India trilateral dialogue format and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization; ties with Israel have assumed a pivotal nature within India's Middle East policies; relations with Iran have been curtailed; close coordination with the US is apparent in regard of regional security in South Asia and India Ocean.

Delhi keeps up the pretense that the nuclear deal is all about India's energy security, but it has succumbed to US-Israeli pressure against proceeding with the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, which had a much shorter gestation period and would have been a far cheaper source of energy. The heart of the matter is that the nuclear deal eases the flow of US military technology to India, paving the way for the "interoperability" of the two armed forces and making India a potential ally in coalitions that the US might assemble from time to time as part of its global strategy.

This is where an orchestrated diversionary tactic becomes useful for the Indian government. By projecting China's perceived unfriendliness, Delhi insinuates that India has been left with no option but to proceed on the present track of forging a strategic partnership with the US. The Indian government's submission to the domestic opinion is that Chinese unfriendliness as manifest yet again at Vienna last weekend provides the raison d'etre for what Delhi has embarked on with the US.

Indians are a deeply nationalistic people. When a Chinese threat is invoked - and, that too, in combination with the Pakistani - as the rationale of US-India strategic partnership, the Indian public really has no choice but to rally behind the government's current policies. Dissenters will be simply branded as "anti-nationals" - or worse still, "Chinese agents". It is a shrewd strategy, as it deflects criticism regarding the matrix of US-India relationship as such, which is an unequal partnership where India is bound to end up playing the role of a junior partner.

The government has reason to be nervous that once the nuclear deal moves on to the US Congress on Monday, a new dynamics takes over. Americans have a nasty practice of indulging in open discussions and public revelations of dark secrets on sensitive issues that may cause discomfort to the Indian leadership. Any searchlights by inquisitive American legislators or public watchdogs on the full range of hidden Indian assurances and commitments to the George W Bush administration could be extremely damaging politically to the government in Delhi. Hopefully, the jingoism that has been drummed up in Delhi will deflect attention.

What would Beijing make out of this entire spectacle? The Chinese are realists. They would most likely show tact. Jingoism isn't new to them, either. Yang, in particular, had a hugely successful tenure as ambassador to the US. He would recollect that American politicians almost routinely indulged in grandstanding, while Sino-American relations continued to expand. China is already India's No 1 trading partner, and it seems bilateral trade will exceed the $60 billion target by 2010.

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.

(Copyright 2008 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
 
.
This type of article puts me to sleep, but I am bore right now, might as well.

There are many others here to wake you up buddy:cheers:

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan
Hindu gods spike Chinese dragon
By M K Bhadrakumar
India's National Security Advisor M K Narayanan made an astounding claim in a television interview on Saturday that "divine intervention" might have secured for the country a "waiver" from the Nuclear Suppliers' Group (NSG). The "waiver" allows India to have global nuclear commerce without formally signing either the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) and paves the way for the US Congress to ratify a potentially lucrative civilian nuclear deal with India.

The NSG "adjusted its guidelines" for India on Saturday. Narayanan was reacting to the news. He then went on to launch a tirade against China, alleging Beijing tried to spoil India's party at Vienna. He said India was taken by surprise by the Chinese doublespeak since Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao had assured the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that Beijing would play a constructive role when the issue of the "waiver" for India came up for consideration in Vienna.

He lamented India's misfortune to have countries like China as neighbors. "We cannot choose our neighbors. We have China and Pakistan as neighbors and with both of them we desire to have the best of relations," he said. Narayanan added, "The Chinese foreign minister will come here and we will, of course, express disappointment. We will say that we did not expect this from China." (Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi was due to arrive in Delhi on Monday.)

The timing of the broadside is intriguing. It stands to reason that Yang's visit would have provided a splendid opportunity for Delhi to do some plain-speaking with the Chinese one-to-one. India's veteran External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee could have ably done that. Yet Delhi chose to go ballistic. Curiously, Mukherjee took the first opportunity on Sunday to somewhat moderate his colleague's savage attack on the Chinese, but without quite disowning him. When asked about China's stance at the NSG, Mukherjee told reporters, "I don't want to comment on what role was played by which country at the NSG. This is their internal matter. Every sovereign country has its right to express its own sovereign will."

A spate of Indian media reports have since appeared based on government "leaks", thumb-sketching behind-the-scene efforts by Chinese diplomats to somehow scuttle a NSG consensus decision on Saturday. Any delay in Vienna would have been lethal. It would have thwarted the efforts by the US to pilot the NSG "waiver" and the US-India civil nuclear cooperation agreement to the Capitol Hill on Monday. A tight schedule lies ahead to obtain the approval from the US Congress before September 28 when its session ends.

It remains unclear where it was that the Indian special envoys sent to Vienna to canvass for the waiver were rubbed so badly by the Chinese diplomats. Actually, Beijing had never hidden its unhappiness over the presumptuous fashion in which the US first erected the NSG to punish India for its nuclear explosion in 1974 and then shepherded the world community to isolate the Indians. Now, the US has unilaterally decided otherwise and sought to amend the rules so as to accommodate Delhi. As recently as last Monday, the People's Daily lambasted Washington in no uncertain terms for its "multiple standards" and inconsistencies apropos of the nuclear non-proliferation regime.

But the Chinese commentaries took care to focus criticism on Washington. They left open the possibility that when the crunch came, China, after having said its piece, would move on rather than exercise its prerogative to block an NSG consensus. Indeed, senior American officials have more than once expressed optimism that rhetoric apart, Beijing wouldn't obstruct an NSG waiver. In fact, at the crucial NSG session on Saturday in Vienna, China, like many other NSG member countries, absented.

All said, therefore, the Indian government's decision to whip up a degree of public frenzy over China has been deliberate and well-conceived. To be sure, a powerful imagery has been conjured up: Hindu Gods spiking the Chinese dragon. The thesis is that China worked hard at the NSG to obtain a similar waiver for it close ally Pakistan. As proof, the government has given to the media a statement by Yang, "It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism." The corporate media eagerly lapped up the China-bashing. The large anti-China lobby in the strategic community in Delhi promptly acquiesced with "expert" opinion.

The government's purpose has been well-served. The public attention has been almost entirely deflected from the core issue: What is the additional price that Washington has extracted from Delhi for obtaining this NSG waiver? The government struck with immaculate timing just as misgivings were beginning to be voiced in India that Delhi paid a high price to get the NSG waiver.

An explicit Indian commitment not to resort to nuclear weapon-testing ever again formed the "basis" of the NSG waiver. Indeed, on Friday morning, quite out of the blue, Mukherjee made a formal statement in Delhi ostensibly regarding India's commitment to disarmament. The statement contained an innocuous reference to India's commitment to observe a moratorium on nuclear testing. At first glance, it seemed Mukherjee was only restating India's stance. But as it turned out, the resonance was directed towards Vienna and the NSG waiver was forthcoming on its "basis".

Clearly, the NSG waiver was neither "clean" nor "unconditional" as Delhi claimed but instead signified yet another surrender of national sovereignty. The waiver has converted India's voluntary moratorium on testing into a multilateral commitment. Effectively, India has now agreed that any fuel supply agreement for its imported reactors will be subject to regular NSG review, while restrictions remain on India gaining access to uranium enrichment and reprocessing technologies and India's nuclear facilities come under the safeguards of the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA] in perpetuity.

In other words, India has been virtually brought within the ambit of the CTBT and NPT. India has given an open-ended commitment to abide by all NSG guidelines, including any future changes that the body may make in its guidelines, while India cannot participate in the NSG decision-making as such. In overall terms, India's nuclear program will be brought under US monitoring and control. Unsurprisingly, there is a sense of disquiet that the government is keeping away from public purview the full details of the negotiations over the nuclear deal with the US.

Overarching all this is the reality that the US-India nuclear deal forms an integral part of a broader strategic relationship. Indeed, in the past three-year period, while the nuclear deal was under negotiation, Indian foreign policy already moved onto a trajectory harmonizing with the US regional policies. There has been masterly inactivity with regard to building up relations with Russia; a distinct cooling is apparent vis-a-vis the Russia-China-India trilateral dialogue format and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization; ties with Israel have assumed a pivotal nature within India's Middle East policies; relations with Iran have been curtailed; close coordination with the US is apparent in regard of regional security in South Asia and India Ocean.

Delhi keeps up the pretense that the nuclear deal is all about India's energy security, but it has succumbed to US-Israeli pressure against proceeding with the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, which had a much shorter gestation period and would have been a far cheaper source of energy. The heart of the matter is that the nuclear deal eases the flow of US military technology to India, paving the way for the "interoperability" of the two armed forces and making India a potential ally in coalitions that the US might assemble from time to time as part of its global strategy.

This is where an orchestrated diversionary tactic becomes useful for the Indian government. By projecting China's perceived unfriendliness, Delhi insinuates that India has been left with no option but to proceed on the present track of forging a strategic partnership with the US. The Indian government's submission to the domestic opinion is that Chinese unfriendliness as manifest yet again at Vienna last weekend provides the raison d'etre for what Delhi has embarked on with the US.

Indians are a deeply nationalistic people. When a Chinese threat is invoked - and, that too, in combination with the Pakistani - as the rationale of US-India strategic partnership, the Indian public really has no choice but to rally behind the government's current policies. Dissenters will be simply branded as "anti-nationals" - or worse still, "Chinese agents". It is a shrewd strategy, as it deflects criticism regarding the matrix of US-India relationship as such, which is an unequal partnership where India is bound to end up playing the role of a junior partner.

The government has reason to be nervous that once the nuclear deal moves on to the US Congress on Monday, a new dynamics takes over. Americans have a nasty practice of indulging in open discussions and public revelations of dark secrets on sensitive issues that may cause discomfort to the Indian leadership. Any searchlights by inquisitive American legislators or public watchdogs on the full range of hidden Indian assurances and commitments to the George W Bush administration could be extremely damaging politically to the government in Delhi. Hopefully, the jingoism that has been drummed up in Delhi will deflect attention.

What would Beijing make out of this entire spectacle? The Chinese are realists. They would most likely show tact. Jingoism isn't new to them, either. Yang, in particular, had a hugely successful tenure as ambassador to the US. He would recollect that American politicians almost routinely indulged in grandstanding, while Sino-American relations continued to expand. China is already India's No 1 trading partner, and it seems bilateral trade will exceed the $60 billion target by 2010.
Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
(Copyright 2008 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)

And this one has already been posted on this forum.:azn:
 
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Ragged, half-starved, flood-battered, riot-scarred but nonetheless democracy, not the jackboot of dictatorship. Our democracy ought to be our biggest pride. China threatens to make it our shame. That — and not nuclear deals or Security Council seats — is the real challenge of the Chinese dragon. How ready are we to face it?

People in India need to grow up and learn the real meaning of democracy.

There are numerous threads on Chinese forums on the democracy trend in China, however, about half of threads would have full stop whenever anyone mentions "do we really want a fake democracy like the one in India?"

In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.

India feels good for its so called "IT" sector, that is just BS in my mind. If you check the number of patents filed by India, it is even less than half of what Huawei (a major telecommunication company in China) registered. I am doing my PhD in computer science, when was the last time I read a CS science paper by Indian university? I have never read any in fact.

;)
 
.
People in India need to grow up and learn the real meaning of democracy.

There are numerous threads on Chinese forums on the democracy trend in China, however, about half of threads would have full stop whenever anyone mentions "do we really want a fake democracy like the one in India?"

In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.

India feels good for its so called "IT" sector, that is just BS in my mind. If you check the number of patents filed by India, it is even less than half of what Huawei (a major telecommunication company in China) registered. I am doing my PhD in computer science, when was the last time I read a CS science paper by Indian university? I have never read any in fact.

;)

Gosh....I wonder who in their right mind would give you a Phd.

edit: Of course. It must have been a Chinese university :)
 
.
People in India need to grow up and learn the real meaning of democracy.

There are numerous threads on Chinese forums on the democracy trend in China, however, about half of threads would have full stop whenever anyone mentions "do we really want a fake democracy like the one in India?"

In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.

India feels good for its so called "IT" sector, that is just BS in my mind. If you check the number of patents filed by India, it is even less than half of what Huawei (a major telecommunication company in China) registered. I am doing my PhD in computer science, when was the last time I read a CS science paper by Indian university? I have never read any in fact.

;)

Agreed!!! Please ignore the crying ones :rofl::rofl::rofl: :cheers:
 
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Dr Umar,

Looking to this article and some red highlighted paragraphs, I can say, whole purpose of posting this article to create a flurry nothing else.

I feel you could have posted article by a simple link, I have seen in one of the Post mods converted the post in a link, because they understood the intension.

Any way I just read the first red line of article and then understood your inferiority complex and frustration...
 
.
People in India need to grow up and learn the real meaning of democracy.

There are numerous threads on Chinese forums on the democracy trend in China, however, about half of threads would have full stop whenever anyone mentions "do we really want a fake democracy like the one in India?"

In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.

India feels good for its so called "IT" sector, that is just BS in my mind. If you check the number of patents filed by India, it is even less than half of what Huawei (a major telecommunication company in China) registered. I am doing my PhD in computer science, when was the last time I read a CS science paper by Indian university? I have never read any in fact.

;)

I find it really funny that a chinese citizen is talking about democracy. I stay in US and have many Chinese friends who fear to speak about their government in public in presence of other chinese nationals. It`s amusing to see chinese and pakistani citizens commenting about indian democracy. If you suspect Indian power in IT, please visit Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle or Silicon valley in US, you will get your reply.
 
.
I find it really funny that a chinese citizen is talking about democracy.

Sorry for my harsh words, but that precisely demonstrates your myopic mindset as a result of being brainwashed completely and pitifully by your freely biased media. Please open your eyes and look around, and stop being comical...

It is high time, dude.

I stay in US and have many Chinese friends who fear to speak about their government in public in presence of other chinese nationals.

Fortunately there are more Chinese in US, so we know what the fact is and we won't be fooled easily.

It`s amusing to see chinese and pakistani citizens commenting about indian democracy. If you suspect Indian power in IT, please visit Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle or Silicon valley in US, you will get your reply.

Show your full face of fake democracy: why do you want to restrict others' rights of commenting? Of course you will think amusing when people exercise the rights of democracy simply because of your wrong mentality.
 
.
It`s complete misinterpretation of my comments.

Sorry for my harsh words, but that precisely demonstrates your myopic mindset as a result of being brainwashed completely and pitifully by your freely biased media. Please open your eyes and look around, and stop being comical...

It is high time, dude.

Where did I talk about media. I gave you an example based on my interaction with my Chinese friends. Please don`t presume things.

Fortunately there are more Chinese in US, so we know what the fact is and we won't be fooled easily.

Talk to your Chinese friends if you have any and get the facts right. They will tell you how the press is restricted, internet is restricted. Ask them about political freedom.

Show your full face of fake democracy: why do you want to restrict others' rights of commenting? Of course you will think amusing when people exercise the rights of democracy simply because of your wrong mentality.

I did not restrict anyone. I believe in democracy everyone has a right to be amused and what I found amusing was that the citizens of most undemocratic countries "China" and "Pakistan" are criticizing INDIAN democracy. I agree that are democracy is far from prefect but the progress we have made in 60 years is commendable. I hope in next 30-40 years when 80%+ population of India will be educated we will be a truly vibrant democracy. China might need a civil movement to get there.
 
Last edited:
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In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.



;)


How do you feel about England's democracy?

And if you believe American democracy is the true democracy, i think you are mistaken sir. American form of gov't is actually a republic system. The definition of true Democracy is that minorities have equal power to make decisions, which even in American system it does not prevail. In America society the majority still dictates the outcome.
 
.
People in India need to grow up and learn the real meaning of democracy.

There are numerous threads on Chinese forums on the democracy trend in China, however, about half of threads would have full stop whenever anyone mentions "do we really want a fake democracy like the one in India?"

In a real democracy, the general public should be put into position to share the growth/benefits/freedom/rights of the growth of the country/economy, however the democracy in India is just 100% different.

India feels good for its so called "IT" sector, that is just BS in my mind. If you check the number of patents filed by India, it is even less than half of what Huawei (a major telecommunication company in China) registered. I am doing my PhD in computer science, when was the last time I read a CS science paper by Indian university? I have never read any in fact.

;)


A communist giving advice on democracy ?!!

The world truly is changing !
 
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Gosh....I wonder who in their right mind would give you a Phd.

edit: Of course. It must have been a Chinese university :)

gosh i remembered sumdowrong chu incident and realized the genious of Indian greatest mind
lol:cheesy:
 
.
I find it really funny that a chinese citizen is talking about democracy. I stay in US and have many Chinese friends who fear to speak about their government in public in presence of other chinese nationals. It`s amusing to see chinese and pakistani citizens commenting about indian democracy. If you suspect Indian power in IT, please visit Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle or Silicon valley in US, you will get your reply.

indian democracy can be best seen in different episodes of Dalit , and minority shows
lol
and of course in study of maoist struggle in central and north east india
 
.
I find it really funny that a chinese citizen is talking about democracy. I stay in US and have many Chinese friends who fear to speak about their government in public in presence of other chinese nationals. It`s amusing to see chinese and pakistani citizens commenting about indian democracy. If you suspect Indian power in IT, please visit Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle or Silicon valley in US, you will get your reply.

Are you living in another parallel world?:lol: And have many chinese friends just living in your mind?

Oh, banned mumber........ a waste of time.
 
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