Indian army's biggest enemy - stress, low morale, bad service conditions,

[Adux]

Keys

I suggest you put up the report., Amnesty international has never claimed IA is the one who killed 80,000. Please dont suggest my country is run by Idi Amin and my Army is their Henchmen.

 

[Adux]

Indian army personnels who committed crimes in held Kashmir should be given death sentence or imprisonment for life, so that in the future the acts of rape, fake encounters should be avoided, but all the criminals in IA who have done these acts r roaming freely.

And who told you that, conveintly just propogating your version of the story with out any evidence whatsoever than some jehai run website.

Adu

 

[Adux]

ofcourse not that's not how Jinnah got independence, but if someone rapes, kills, opresses someone related to u, then r u gonna just sit there and watch or take action.

Shows your grasp of History, Do you even know the level atrocities shown by the british. Just for a taster, Have you heard about Jalinwala Bagh Incident. There lies the greatness of our former leaders like Gandhi, Jinnah etc

Stop putting propaganda; give me neutral evidence, I am ready to accept the faults of my government as well as my army; I am not blinded by own people. But the Question is are you, do you have the greatness in yourself to accept the faults of your own, are you ready to accept HRW.ORG on Azad Kashmir?

 

[PakSniper]

Keys

I suggest you put up the report., Amnesty international has never claimed IA is the one who killed 80,000. Please dont suggest my country is run by Idi Amin and my Army is their Henchmen.

Below is from Amnesty International.

Local observers believe that between 45,000 and 60,000 people have died since an armed insurgency began in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in 1989. Some 30 armed opposition groups are active in the state, all of which oppose Indian rule: some want independence, while others want to secede to Pakistan. As a result of the conflict, thousands of Hindus have fled the state and have for years been living in camps near Jammu and New Delhi.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA200132006?open&of=ENG-2S4

Children are deeply affected by witnessing abuses inflicted on their elders, on fathers, mothers and sisters humiliated, harassed, injured or killed by law enforcement personnel or armed groups. A large number of children have also had to take on the burdens of child labour after the “disappearance” of the main bread earners of their families. While the state government in June 2003 cited the figure of 3,184 “disappeared” persons in the Legislative Assembly, local human rights activists state that between 8,000 and 10,000 persons have “disappeared” in the state. Psychologists have spoken of the high level of disturbance, including sleep disturbance and fears amongst children in Jammu and Kashmir.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA200272005?open&of=ENG-IND

PS: Use search function and you will find more on Indian Army atrocities, etc.

 

[Adux]

Thank you Dragon,

Where did it say Indian Army Killed them; I hope you are reading about the Kashmiri Pandits in that article. They are living in camps scared of the terrorist.

 

[PakSniper]

Thank you Dragon,

Where did it say Indian Army Killed them; I hope you are reading about the Kashmiri Pandits in that article. They are living in camps scared of the terrorist.

Read the 2nd one I posted,. don't you think they would be doing these things wide spread,. don't try to cover up what your country has been doing you have thousands who have been kidnapped,. and I'm pretty sure you watched some videos, etc. From that journalist can't think of her name on top of my head, on top of that you people have fake counters trying to earn metals . List goes on, so don't try to save face for India their are hundreds of pictures online of atrocities India has committed, etc and I don't want to bring them here cause they are the ones some kids might not want to be looking at that come to this site.

Then a few weeks ago you have Indians kill a carpenter and claim him to be a militant.

Their is no point in trying to deny these things,. it goes on in India, it's not just stress, etc. It's incompetent soldiers, low class and no moral respect for others, and I can go on and on. But I will stop here.

 

[Adux]

Dragon,

Dont tell me to think or assume, or even see 5 people are reported, therefore 500 must be gone. Disapperance and Kidnappings are done by the Terrorist also. Do you know there is a huge and cry in Pakistan citizen disapperance, Your Supremem court judge in dissperation had to bring in the government to show these disapperad People. This report doesnt show anything that you claimed earlier in the thread. Prove me wrong or take back your baseless acuquisations. I have conceded that there were some cases, I have the capacity do so, or even greatness to understand the mistakes of my kind, The question is again, DO you have that, or Do you think everyone in your side is Holier than Thou....Show me a neutral and valid report which states 80,000 people were killed by the IA. Period.

 

[PakSniper]

Dragon,

Dont tell me to think or assume, or even see 5 people are reported, therefore 500 must be gone. Disapperance and Kidnappings are done by the Terrorist also. This report doesnt show anything that you claimed earlier in the thread. Prove me or take back your baseless acuquisations. I have conceded that there were some cases, I have the capacity do so, or even greatness to understand the mistakes of my kind, The question is again, DO you have that, or Do you think everyone in your side is Holier than Thou....Show me a neutral and valid report which states 80,000 people were killed by the IA. Period.

Keep claiming what you want,. and most of all you people can't read it's says 45,000+ have died in an arm struggle, have I directly pointed out Indian Army ( I will say more than 60% of atrocities are committed by the Indian Army). I don't have to search a neutral link for you, you can search on your own once you click leave for PFF, and do something else.

We seen what your security forces were doing in Sikh clashes and Gujrat, etc so I don't need to pull anything out for you, you might be smart enough to figure it out, if you think outside the box, yes Pakistan has faults, etc but do we have 500K+ soldiers in a territory? oppressing the population, who doesn't want to be with India even when it's right in front of you people deny it, in the links above it's talks about people wanting nothing to do with India and either be independant or with Pakistan what more you need.

Dragon,

Dont tell me to think or assume, or even see 5 people are reported, therefore 500 must be gone. Disapperance and Kidnappings are done by the Terrorist also. Do you know there is a huge and cry in Pakistan citizen disapperance, Your Supremem court judge in dissperation had to bring in the government to show these disapperad People. This report doesnt show anything that you claimed earlier in the thread. Prove me wrong or take back your baseless acuquisations. I have conceded that there were some cases, I have the capacity do so, or even greatness to understand the mistakes of my kind, The question is again, DO you have that, or Do you think everyone in your side is Holier than Thou....Show me a neutral and valid report which states 80,000 people were killed by the IA. Period.

Right their might be kidnappings but not close to 5K-10K their is a difference you know!! Espically when people don't want to be part of a country who's oppressing them.

Oh next time if you going to make a change to your post after I answered you, please put the update time change, etc.

 

[Adux]

Stop ranting and show me proof, do you have a neutral link., YOU dont; ever wondered why. Cuz it aint so.

 

[PakSniper]

Stop ranting and show me proof, do you have a neutral link., YOU dont; ever wondered why. Cuz it aint so.

Again I didn't claim India killed 80K,. again I said in armed struggle people were killed. And then I posted a link already where 10K Kashmir's were being kidnapped,. and we seen a video posted before people being taken away and protests, etc and Indian police, etc lying they didn't while they did. The only person who is ranting is you trying to save face for a pathetic excuse of an army trying to win medals.

Here i'm post it again for you blind folks to see...

Below is from Amnesty International.

Local observers believe that between 45,000 and 60,000 people have died since an armed insurgency began in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in 1989. Some 30 armed opposition groups are active in the state, all of which oppose Indian rule: some want independence, while others want to secede to Pakistan. As a result of the conflict, thousands of Hindus have fled the state and have for years been living in camps near Jammu and New Delhi.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-2S4

Children are deeply affected by witnessing abuses inflicted on their elders, on fathers, mothers and sisters humiliated, harassed, injured or killed by law enforcement personnel or armed groups. A large number of children have also had to take on the burdens of child labour after the “disappearance” of the main bread earners of their families. While the state government in June 2003 cited the figure of 3,184 “disappeared” persons in the Legislative Assembly, local human rights activists state that between 8,000 and 10,000 persons have “disappeared” in the state. Psychologists have spoken of the high level of disturbance, including sleep disturbance and fears amongst children in Jammu and Kashmir.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-IND

 

[Adux]

Read it carefully,

It says both Armed groups aka terrorist scumbags and Indian Army, I know for sure that if the terrorist stop coming there; there is no need of the army; AKA before the 1989, I rather take the word of the Army which is bound by rules and have time and again caught the culprits among themselves and put to justice according to their rules. Rather than some Mercenary's influenced by their racist and religionist hang ups with no laws or accountability.

60,000 Kashmiri Pandits, were send out of their homes, scores of them killed do you think the Indian "Hindu" Army acoording to you did this; open your eyes. Oh wait, kashmiri pandits are hindu therefore not human enough for you. Exactly why the Army should be there and freaking kill anything terrorize's the indian union and its people.

 

[Keysersoze]

Keys

I suggest you put up the report., Amnesty international has never claimed IA is the one who killed 80,000. Please dont suggest my country is run by Idi Amin and my Army is their Henchmen.

Here you go Enjoy! Whilst your country is not Uganda any time this kind of thing can happen you should hang your head in shame..(as I do when I hear about stupidities in PAK)

India

Although politically motivated violence has slightly decreased in Jammu and Kashmir, torture, deaths in custody and "disappearances" continue to be reported. At least 38 people are reported to have died in custody in 2005.

The vast majority of survivors of targeted killings and sexual violence in Gujarat in 2002 - most of them Muslim - have still not received justice and reparations for these crimes, some of which amount to crimes against humanity. In December 2005 a mass grave containing the remains of the victims was found. In February 2006, in a key case relating to the violence, nine persons were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. Amnesty International continues to receive reports of harassment of human rights defenders and the social and economic boycotting of the Muslim minority in Gujarat particularly after criminal convictions.

Members of the security forces continue to enjoy impunity for human rights violations. Nine years after the "disappearance" and killing of human rights lawyer Jalil Andrabi in Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir, an army major identified as responsible by a special investigation team has still not been brought to justice. In Punjab, police officers responsible for serious human rights violations in the mid-1990s continue to evade justice, despite the recommendations of several judicial inquiries and commissions.

Human rights defenders in many parts of the country continue to be harassed and attacked, including activists working on behalf of socially and economically marginalized communities. At least 77 people were sentenced to death in 2005; however, no executions took place. There is no comprehensive information on the number of people under sentence of death in each state. The central and state governments do not publish any information on the number of people under the sentence of death.

Although the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) was repealed more than a year ago, the cases of those held under the Act have not yet been fully reviewed, and some state governments have yet to take action on the recommendations by the judicial committee reviewing the cases. Human rights organizations have expressed concern over amendments made to the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act and state-level acts (especially in Chattisgarh state) which grant special powers to the state, similar to those previously provided by the POTA.

 

[Keysersoze]

Civilians decry draconian law in India
Arundhati Roy signs AI India's petition to repeal the AFSPA
Writer and activist Arundhati Roy signs AI India’s petition to repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 5 March. AI contributed to a government review of the Act and began a campaign to repeal it in June.
© AI

Violence and human rights abuses are a feature of daily life across large parts of northeastern India and in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Wide-scale militant activity by armed groups has led to a corresponding high level of militarization and the introduction of “special” security legislation, including the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act 1958 (AFSPA). The AFSPA’s provisions enable security forces to arrest people and enter property without a warrant, and to shoot to kill even in circumstances where they are not at imminent risk. It is widely believed that the AFSPA has facilitated grave human rights abuses, including extrajudicial execution, “disappearance”, rape and torture.

“There is more indiscriminate violence now than when the Act was initially introduced,” says Colin Gonsalves, a respected human rights activist. Between 1992 and 2004 a reported 12,000 civilians have died in northeastern India as a result of such violence. And in Jammu and Kashmir, it is widely believed that some 40,000 people have died since the rise of militancy in 1989. “The civilian population want law and order but the fact that the army and paramilitary forces are used to tackle a law and order situation means that the police and the legal system are bypassed,” adds Colin Gonsalves. “Rather than the AFSPA bringing peace it brings anger.”

For decades, human rights activists in India have called for a repeal of the AFSPA and expressed opposition to human rights abuses in areas where it is in force. When Thangjam Manoram, a woman from Manipur, was allegedly sexually assaulted and killed by members of the Assam Rifles, a paramilitary organization working alongside the army in July 2004, it provoked months of demonstrations in the northeast, including more extreme forms of protest such as self-immolation, hunger strikes and naked protest.

Following this, the Manipur state government withdrew the AFSPA from the Greater Municipal District of Manipur’s capital, Imphal, and the Indian government appointed a committee to review the Act. Calls for a total repeal continue.

In March 2005, well-known Indian author and human rights defender, Arundhati Roy, joined AI members demonstrating in Delhi for the repeal of the AFSPA. AI members held simultaneous demonstrations across several Indian cities, including Pune, Bhubaneshwar, Chennai and Agra. In Imphal, they attempted to form a human chain but were prevented from doing so by the police.

Under the AFSPA no one can start legal action against any member of the armed forces for alleged abuses under the AFSPA without the permission of the central government. Some action has been taken in recent years to bring those guilty of human rights violations to justice, but government approval to prosecute those accused of abuses is very rarely given. AI remains concerned that the AFSPA has enabled many perpetrators to escape punishment.

AI recently submitted a briefing to the AFSPA Review Committee urging it to recommend that the government withdraw the AFSPA, sanction investigations into allegations of human rights abuses by security forces and ensure that any future legislation complies fully with international human rights standards.

AI’s international campaign to repeal the AFSPA began in June.

 

[Keysersoze]

India: Children unprotected in Jammu and Kashmir
The unlawful killing of three teenaged boys and the serious injuries to a fourth boy during last weekend in a village in Jammu and Kashmir throws into sharp focus the lack of protection for children’s right to life and safety in the state. Children are at risk of human rights violations from both state agents and abuses from armed groups.

Amnesty International urges both the state government and armed groups to respect the rights of children. The government of Jammu and Kashmir is under an international obligation to promote and protect child rights in line with India’s ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Armed groups are under an obligation to abide by the standards of humanitarian law which strictly forbid the torture, killing and hostage taking of all civilians, including children.

An army spokesperson stated that the four juveniles, all between 11 and 15 years of age, were shot on 24 July 2005 in Bangargund village in Kupwara district when troops of the 6th battalion of the Rashtriya Rifles opened fire on the four teenagers, whom they mistook for armed fighters. The boys had started to run away when an army patrol called on them to stop in an area close to the Line of Control, which is the de facto border with Pakistan. Villagers claimed that the juveniles were part of a marriage party and had gone for a stroll in the village in the early hours of Sunday when soldiers opened fire before the boys could reply to their commands. According to reports, there was no curfew in the area. Local villagers claim that the village elders had informed the army of the marriage party and that people were likely to move about late at night.

An army spokesperson termed the incident “unfortunate” and announced that the army would fully cooperate with a magisterial inquiry set up by State Chief Minister Mufti Mohammad Sayeed. The army also ordered an internal inquiry. Police have registered a case against the army.

On dozens of occasions, armed groups have perpetrated indiscriminate attacks which have affected children. They have exploded bombs close to schools resulting in the deaths of several children and causing parents to fear for the safety of their wards.

* On 12 May 2005, armed fighters threw a grenade just as schoolchildren were leaving a Christian missionary school in Srinagar, killing two women who had come to pick up their children and injuring some 50 people, including 20 pupils. No group has claimed responsibility for the attack.
* On 13 June 2005, a truck bomb explosion near a school in Pulwama killed 15 people and injured almost 100 others. The car blew up as pupils revised for an exam in the sunshine on the school grounds. Two students were among the dead and 10 were injured.
* Yet another bomb blast outside a school occurred on 20 July 2005 in Srinagar when a suicide bomber apparently drove his car into an army jeep killing four soldiers and wounding 17 civilians. The Hizbul Mujahideen later claimed responsibility for the bomb blast.
* In December 2004, a school bus was set on fire to prevent schoolchildren from attending army schools in Anantnag district.


Children are also often amongst the victims during indiscriminate attacks on civilians. On 22 June 2005, two children were amongst 17 people injured when a grenade was thrown into a crowd of pedestrians in Gorivan Bijbehara.

Children are also at risk from discarded explosive materials. On 24 July 2005, three children aged six to nine years in village Ajir in Bandipore district were injured when they played with an explosive device left behind after troops ended an operation.

Children are deeply affected by witnessing abuses inflicted on their elders, on fathers, mothers and sisters humiliated, harassed, injured or killed by law enforcement personnel or armed groups. A large number of children have also had to take on the burdens of child labour after the “disappearance” of the main bread earners of their families. While the state government in June 2003 cited the figure of 3,184 “disappeared” persons in the Legislative Assembly, local human rights activists state that between 8,000 and 10,000 persons have “disappeared” in the state. Psychologists have spoken of the high level of disturbance, including sleep disturbance and fears amongst children in Jammu and Kashmir.

 

[Keysersoze]

Impunity

Members of the security forces continued to enjoy virtual impunity for human rights violations.

In April women members of the Association of the Parents of Disappeared Persons were beaten by police when they demonstrated in Srinagar against continuing impunity for those responsible for “disappearances” in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. While the state admitted in 2003 that 3,744 persons had “disappeared” since insurgency began in 1989, human rights activists believed the true figure to be over 8,000. No one had been convicted by the end of 2004.

In Punjab the vast majority of police officers responsible for serious human rights violations during the period of militancy in the mid-1990s continued to evade justice, despite the recommendations of several judicial inquiries and commissions. In response to 2,097 reported cases of human rights violations, the National Human Rights Commission had ordered the state of Punjab to provide compensation in 109 cases concerning people who were in police custody prior to their death. The culture of impunity developed during that period continued to prevail and reports of abuses including torture and ill-treatment persisted.